End all be all...Russia's Status as a Super Power

I found the lyrics of a russian song apparently lamenting the loss of russian super power status. So, in the spirit of the Beatles hit "Back in the U.S.S.R. is this tune "borrowed" (those innovative russians again) from the Beatles song "Yesterday".

Вчера,
все наши тревоги показались до тех пор отсутствующими,
теперь оно смотрят как если бы они должны здесь остаться,
oh, мы верят внутри вчера.
Неожиданно,
мы не будем половиной страны которая мы использовали быть,
будет тень вися над нами,
мы теперь вне-dany полный газ Беларус,
oh, вчера пришли неожиданно.
Почему оно должен пойти мы не знаем,
мы не смогли сказать.
Мы сделали,
что-то неправильно,
теперь мы длиной для вчера.
Вчера,
силой была такая легкая игра,
котор нужно сыграть,
теперь мы место спрятать прочь,
oh, мы верит внутри вчера.
Почему она должна пойти мы не знаем,
мы не смогли сказать.
Мы сделали, что-то неправильно,
теперь мы длиной для вчера.
Вчера,
силой была такая легкая игра,
котор нужно сыграть,
теперь мы место спрятать прочь,
oh, мы верит внутри вчера.


Loosely translated, the lyrics go something like this:

Yesterday,
All our troubles seemed so far away,
Now it looks as though they're here to stay,
Oh, we believe in yesterday.

Suddenly,
We're not half the country that we used to be,
There's a shadow hanging over us,
We're now out-gunned by Belarus,
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

Why it
Had to go we don't know, we couldn't say.
We did,
Something wrong, now we long for yesterday.

Yesterday,
Power was such an easy game to play,
Now we need a place to hide away,
Oh, we believe in yesterday.

Why it
Had to go we don't know, we couldn't say.
We did,
Something wrong, now we long for yesterday.

Yesterday,
Power was such an easy game to play,
Now we need a place to hide away,
Oh, we believe in yesterday.



And so the russians apparently still do ...

Did you make it all by yourself ? I'm a linguist and I can speak Russian fluently. The "Russian" lyrics are taken from some online-translator because they have nothing to do with a proper Russian language.
A won't be surprised if you changed the lyrics in "Yesterday" by yourself and translated them somewhere online into pseudo-Russian.. My God, you're trying to fool everyone here by relying on lack of knowledge of the Russian language...

You are definitely NOT a good person. This is so disgusting.....

[edit on 25-1-2007 by Leevi]

Originally posted by Leevi
I'm a linguist and I can speak Russian fluently.

Proof please. And just how old do you have to be in finland to call yourself a linguist?

My God, you're trying to fool everyone here by relying on lack of knowledge of the Russian language...

But isn't what this thread has been all about - trying to fool everyone into thinking russia was still super power through the use of bogus "news" sources?

You are definitely NOT a good person. [edit on 25-1-2007 by Leevi]

I NEVER said I was a good person.

Still, my favorite verse has to be:

Suddenly,
We're not half the country that we used to be,
There's a shadow hanging over us,
We're now out-gunned by Belarus,
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

Because it just kind of says it all regarding the reality of this thread.

[edit on 1/25/2007 by centurion1211]

But isn't what this thread has bee all about - trying to fool everyone into thinking russia was still super power through the use of bogus "news" sources?

No.

Because it just kind of says it all regarding the reality of this thread.

No. It just clearly says about your weak awareness and strong narrow-mindedness.



[edit on 25-1-2007 by Leevi]

Originally posted by Leevi
But isn't what this thread has been all about - trying to fool everyone into thinking russia was still super power through the use of bogus "news" sources?

No.

How is your answer "no"? What is your interpretation, then, of the purpose of this thread if it is not to argue whether or not russia still has super power status?

Because it just kind of says it all regarding the reality of this thread.

No. It just clearly says about your weak awareness and strong narrow-mindedness.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by Leevi]

OK, here we go with the personal insults again.

Is that really all you have to offer when all I've said and done (along with several others) is point out that we disagree with the premise of the original poster and their supporters.

[edit on 1/25/2007 by centurion1211]

EDIT

Originally posted by centurion1211
But isn't what this thread has been all about - trying to fool everyone into thinking russia was still super power through the use of bogus "news" sources?

What bogus news sources? Please point to some so i may defend their authenticity or admit any mistakes i may have made...

**********

Originally posted by centurion1211
Despite previous attempts in this thread to paint a rosy picture of the economic situation in russia

It has a better macro economic situation that the USA and that's just a fact.

as well as stating that russia's nuclear weapons program was under control, we get this troubling news today from the Communist News Network (CNN).

nuclear news

Communist news network? CNN is so far right....

Republic of Georgia authorities, aided by the CIA, set up a sting operation last summer that led to the arrest of a Russian man who tried to sell a small amount of nuclear-bomb grade uranium in a plastic bag in his jacket pocket, U.S. and Georgian officials said.

That's right. This russian was apparantly so desperate for $ and also so stupid that he was carrying around bomb grade uranium in a plastic baggy in his coat pocket.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Actually it was in a glass jar and considering the fact that such materials are in fact nowhere near as dangerous as the media suggest this is hardly such a strange thing to attempt doing if you have the means. If your going to type up something the very least you should do is familiarize yourself with the general situation surrounding the incident.

The arrest underscored concerns about the possibility of terrorists acquiring nuclear bomb-making material on the black market, although there was no suggestion that this particular case was terrorist-related.
Authorities say they do not know how the man acquired the nuclear material or if his claims of access to much larger quantities were true.

Yes, the russians have everything under control. Instead it looks like it's time for more U.S. covert missions into russia to "help" them deal with their problems.

I never said they have everything under control and why in your opinion does control mean that they will not allow such materials to be smuggled? The US has no admitted effective deployed defense against ICBMs, or even scuds, so it has plenty to worry about and every reason to actually send billions more to 'help' the Russians 'secure' material the Russians apparently have no interest in securing in many instances.

Georgian attempts to trace the nuclear material since the arrest and confirm whether the man indeed had access to larger quantities have foundered from a lack of cooperation from Russia.

Russia needs to quit worrying about its lost "super power" status and instead start taking care of serious internal problems that have international implications.

Once again i don't see what you base the 'lost' status on considering what is happening to the US economy and US armed forces.... The same can be said for the US as it certainly has as many internal problems and far far fewer excuses for the situation.

Russian authorities took a sample of the material but failed to offer any assistance despite requests for help from the Georgians, Merabishvili said.

"We were ready to provide all the information, but unfortunately no one arrived from Russia, not even to interview this person," Merabishvili said. "It is surprising because it is in Russian interests to secure these materials. There are terrorist organizations in Russia who would pay huge amounts of money for this."

More evidence that russians lack the ability or interest to take control of their own nuclear materials.

It's still the same source and one does not come to such far reaching conclusions based on so little material.

"Russian cooperation in answering these questions is critical but it has not been forthcoming," he said. "One way to identify who is active in trading these materials is to conduct sting operations," he said.

Yes, but to solve a problem Russia must take its head out of the sand or (somewhere with even less light) and admit that there is a problem.

It frequently admits to it's civllian economic issues and certainly more so than the White house...

And then cooperate with the countries such as the U.S. that have the technology and resources to really help.

The US can barely help itself ( not for lack of means thought) either and in terms of technology the USSR just focused on different areas of research while stealing whatever the US science institutions came up with. The US have spent so many hundreds of millions 'helping' secure nuclear materials and the fact that it did not change anything in fifteen years should probably tell us that Russia has no interest in actually solving this particular 'problem'.

The really stupid thing about all this is that at the same time that russia can't control its nuclear materials

Can't or wont?

, it is selling missile technology to countries like iran. If someone in iran (and they're working feverishly to do this) puts the two together, they'll have a nuclear ballistic missile with just the range to hit ........... russia!

Russia has a deployed national missile defense shield that will completely and effectively block nuclear strikes by countries other than the US. That is the real reason why Russia is not concerned about nuclear weapons and material proliferation

Earth to russia: as a non-muslim country, you will also be considered a "great satan" when iran starts throwing its nuclear weight around.

As far as i know Iran and Russia has a mutual defense treaty so i doubt they would fear what Iran would do considering their ability to shoot down such missiles and then wipe Iran of the face of the Earth.

MOSCOW 2 Oct. (IPS) Iranian Defence Minister Admiral Ali Shamkhani and his Russian counterpart Sergei Ivanov signed a joint defence and military co-operation pact and immediately assured that the agreement is not a threat to other nations.

Ivanov highlighted Iran's importance in Russian foreign policy and said the two countries' co-operation in their software and hardware military industries sectors would be in line with promoting security and lasting peace in the region.

"Russia and Iran in practice, and not in words, are fighting this plague of the century" the Russian Defence Minister added, referring to the US-led international coalition aimed at "uprooting" terrorism.

www.iran-press-service.com...

One wonders why it's never mentioned in the US press that Russia has such a treaty with Iran,why it was signed just after the September 11 attacks, or if Russian might make good on it in case of a Israeli or American attack on Iran.

Or is it that russia is trying to appease iran by selling them this technology and also supporting iran in the UN? Which is something a real super power would never do.

As i said above it's probably due to the fact that they are allied against US and European aggression in the ME.

After that, the world will be discussing the russian rubble instead of the russian ruble.

(Paraphrasing Larry the Cable Guy: Sorry, but I don't care who you are, that was funny!)

Super power status for russia? Not (nyet).

You might not be aware of much any facts related to Russian strengths but that hardly invalidates reality. Have you read any of my previous ATS work on this topic or must i again repeat my past discussions on why they are in my opinion very unlikely to lose even a conventional nuclear war with the US.

Stellar

[edit on 25-1-2007 by StellarX]

Just ignore the nostalgic communists. Encourage them to go back to RU forums and leave the intellectuals free from their ignorant input. Their world has collapsed around them and illusions of their former strength are all they have. Like a fish flopping around in the bottom of your boat, they are now harmless and out of their element, and out of power. I have added leevi to stellar on my ignore list. There is no new information or ideas being presented, just rehashed old material and blind patriotic rage at the loss of power and prestige. Besides, if you argue with a moron there is a chance that others might not be able to tell the difference.

If you have claims to question the validity of the lyrics, and are such a linguist, than post your own translation. I have a [limited] ability to translate Russian, and they are relatively close.
And a good pun on the old Beatle's song.


In other news, the annual report of economic freedom was recently released, and can be viewed either online, or in table-format in this month's The Economist. Russia is, if I recall, in the last twenty of roughly one-hundred fourty nations listed.
--Again, please remain on-topic. The economic status of either nation, unless you directly tie this to a program relating to Super Power status, is entirely without argument or reason for being.

Further, either material would do. Weapons-Grade Uranium is none-too-harmful by itself, especially if all-ready wearing the weather-clothing many Russians regularly adorn. Unless you have a quantity currently going critical, or supercritical: Glass, clothing, and most fabrics are sufficient protection against the radiation emitted.

And I would ask that we drop the issue of Anti-Ballistic Missle Systems, and leave that to the seemingly-defunct 'Nuclear Preparation' topic. As it is, Russia does have the only current, functional or semi-functional shield, though America has many test-beds, small-scale sites, and Research-Development programs. Further, and please, again, bring this to the other thread -- If you detonate, let us pretend, twenty-megatons above Moscow -- Most likely more in a full engagements, won't the populace be fairly irradiated? The survival of the Russian leaders neither guarentees survival of the Russian state, nor of its government.

This is not a topic discussing United States military and economic conditions. Absolutely no-one here has provided comparative evidence anyway -- So the discussion is moot. It neither belongs, nor has been properly debated.

Let us bring this back on-topic, as UK Wizard has politely requested.

LOL, I'm still waiting for stellar tp provide information stating that SK attacked NK in 1950. As many others have pointed out, he tends to ignore posts which show that he is wrong. Obviously he can't google the relative bogus sites to back him up.

PS. Leevi, kind of strange how now all of a sudden you're a fluent Russian speaker. Funny how you've never entioned that before, I smell BS.

PS. Leevi, kind of strange how now all of a sudden you're a fluent Russian speaker. Funny how you've never entioned that before, I smell BS.

There is nothing strange I can speak several languages. Russian system of education is quite powerful, you know.. I got my higher education exactly there.

So happened I live almost on the border of Russia and Finland and thus to communicate with people from both countries I need to speak both languages equally perfectly. Besides, I'm a teacher of English language, I've been to the UK several times and my mom currently lives there.

Так что я абсолютно свободно разговариваю по-русски, и не надо мне тут заливать про битлов и про "русский" вариант их песни, ладно ?

It should be read as following:

Tak chto ya absolyutno svobodno razgovarivayu po-russki, i ne nado mne tut zalivat' pro bitlov i pro russkiy variant ich pesni, ladno ?

It means: I speak Russian language absolutely fluently, so don't try to trick me with the Beatles song and its "russian" variant, alright ?

I doubt that you would need a real translation of "Yesterday" in Russian because I assume you would not understand anything anyway.

I apologize for my off topic once more.


[edit on 25-1-2007 by Leevi]

Which proves exactly nothing, since leevi has had plenty of time to even go ask someone to help him with that last post - especially if he lives where he says. Also, going to russia for his "higher eduction" (indoctrination?) does help explain his pro-russian stance on these threads.

Which still leaves me with the fact that nothing presented on this thread leads me to believe in the OP's original premise of russian super power status.

Therefore, I again call for the thread to be closed in fulfillment of the OP's thread title - End all be all ...

Heres an interesting read. The professors from Notre Dame and UPenn claim the US has enough nuclear superiority over Russia and China to destroy their nukes in a first strike, leaving no nukes to Russia or China for retaliation. Check it out.
www.foreignaffairs.org...

Russian strategists are indeed a cunning lot.

They make it appear as if the country is ruled by a thugocracy of former KGB types, antagonize every neighbor and country in the world exept paraih states like Iran, let strategic weapons and platform rust away or be deactivated by foriegners, fail to demonstrate successful follow-on systems, dismantle conventional forces to the point that a domestic insurgency in Chechnya can not be crushed, let public health officials allow an AIDS epidemic to sweep the country, make life so miserable that population declines due to alcohol abuse and abortion, confiscate investment capitol they invited in less than 5 years ago, assassinate dissidents, need I go on?

That anyone could see strength beyond oil reserves here is delusional.

Anyone that needs proof from sources can read the Economist, instead of quoting some kook internet site that have been predicting the imminent collapse of the U.S. and western economies since they were first posted.

Russia is still the Potemkin village of Catherine's time, in the 21st century.

hahah aaaa, you're asking for it buddy

welcome to stellarX's cut'n'paste.

[edit on 28-1-2007 by ape]

Putin the "reformer" admits he personally never left the Communist Party. A keen-eyed observer of the CNN TV report on the December, 1999 Russian parliamentary elections spotted Putin presenting his I.D. to the clerk so he could vote. The I.D. clearly showed the letters CCCP on the inside of the booklet -- his official Soviet Union Communist Party ID. The authoritative British journal, "Soviet Analyst" commented that CNN ignored this "curiosity."

Originally posted by Hiphar
Just ignore the nostalgic communists. Encourage them to go back to RU forums and leave the intellectuals free from their ignorant input. Their world has collapsed around them and illusions of their former strength are all they have. Like a fish flopping around in the bottom of your boat, they are now harmless and out of their element, and out of power. I have added leevi to stellar on my ignore list. There is no new information or ideas being presented, just rehashed old material and blind patriotic rage at the loss of power and prestige. Besides, if you argue with a moron there is a chance that others might not be able to tell the difference.

LOl leave intellectuals free??? plzzzz Most of the Russians who are in USa are computer engineers and more intelligent than you are, their school system just as hard as in S.Korea, so don't post this nonsense.

a. Most Russian immigrants are low or middle-class wage-earners. Generally performing services which require the equivalent of High School education, or slightly higher education.

However, despite that false claim, Russia, or moreso, Moscow, has an extremely competitive, and strong educational system. It's higher-education, colleges, etc. are highly respected throughout the world, and in my personal opinion, if Moscow wasn't such an expensive place to live, that place would be much more popular.

Bluff and bluster have always been the two greatest weapons of Russia.

To the extent thier alliance with Iran has produced anything, it's the familiar "we have this fantastic weapon that does everything" B.S. the mullahs are trying to tell western press sources they are deploying, same as the fearsome missile defence the Russians claim to have.

They ae both weak and the weak love to boast.

lets face the facts, there isn't a country today that would be able to beat the US in a NON-NUCLEAR war all by itself. (a coalition of countries does)

when it comes to manpower, russia wins.
when it comes to technology, America wins.

i can tell you right now that technology far surpasses man power. any1 here remember WW1? a single machine gun nest can take out hundreds of infantrymen. yeah sure we won't be fighting in trenches but still, same concept.

WW2 anyone? German tanks pounded the hell out of, regretfully, Poland, Denmark, France, Belgium, Holland, and the North Africa countries. The Luftwaffe owned the skies after it got rid of the best British pilots the UK had to throw at them. thats where the Polish 303 squadron comes in (England's glamour boys) and they helped turn the tide of war, but thats another story.

and even if the other country wins, who the hell thinks they can even keep the civilians from revolting constantly. the perfect example: POLAND. how many times has another country taken over Poland and succeded in keeping it? never. if the population of a country is willing it can win the war itself.

my point: sure a country can win, but can they keep the spoils of war?

[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

I have a question for stellar and his anti American views. And please, if you can respond in a short time frame.

What if an Asteroid were on a collision course with the Earth (never mind which country's instruments detected the asteroid), which country would be expected to take the lead in an effort to destroy or deflect the asteroid?

And which country do you feel has done more for humanity than the US?






[edit on 053131p://5501pm by semperfoo]