Believer Syndrome.

Gunney... what are you talking about?

You haven't given me enough to go on in that quote to figure out what you mean. A cursory read of my post and I can't find the quote you've extracted. If you want a sensible response, try asking a sensible question.

If you're that smart, I shouldn't have to write in baby language, which is what you seem to want. I don't do soundbites. Read the posts and the links.

You've also misquoted me. At no point in my thread post did I write "stuff noone read". Don't misquote, it makes you look like an idiot.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by rich23]

Rich23, you appear to have completely misunderstood the entire point of what I said. There may be aliens out there, I am not deabting this fact, I am arguing with confidence against these "believers", when I say believers I do not mean people who believe aliens exists elsewhere in the universe.

I specifically argue against the crowd that feel it necessary to promote their paranoid world view of a massive alien conspiracy, black helicopters, chemicals trails, cover ups and so forth. The entire point is that there is no proof of any of this conspiracy at all, it is a paranoics addition to belief in extra terrestrials.

The main issue with these paranoics is that they don't ever think about or go out and look for evidence against their belief, because they choose to ignore it, even the entire world history in many cases. They have only an interest in all items that increase their paranoid views. This is why in my first post I wrote "especially the hardcore believer". They themselves do not realise their massive bias, they want the world to be a huge paranoics playground - so to them - it is!

The Duracell Rabbit applies the sence of reason to the lack of evidence, that is the entire point in me introducing it. There is no evidence, but I am sure you don't believe it, but of course it is still obvious isn't it - the Duracell Rabbit. So hopefully you may understand your criticism of the Scientific Method was not particularly useful.

You say "then the skeptics have a problem" if this evidence exists - the issue is as I already stated, that this planet is not a giant alien conspiracy. However I'm sure if an alien landed tomorrow then all these hardcore believers who seem to think they had won, they would happily forget that they once stated there was a global conspiracy of aliens, or would say this event itself is a cover up, this is part of their anti-conformist attitude.

You have provided proof for the possibilty of life elsewhere, but seemed to have written a massive reply and throughout missed the entire point, as in my first post I shall repeat for you. You happily accuse people of looking at evidence and the scientific method too hard, do you apply this to yourself so far as to not read the question?

"why they believe there are aliens on this planet and there is a global conspiracy"

Where is the global conspiracy? If it did exist would this evidence you promote so greatly not have been the first thing to be destroyed?

Best thread in a long time.

"DENY IGNORANCE" does NOT mean "Buy into every crackpot theory on the planet". Just because you hear something that makes sense to you, it does not make it real.

Too few people here actually check their sources. Or, if they so, most of the time the "source" is unable to substantiate the claim. There are too many websites of people speculating without fact to base it on. From there it snowballs as more people read it. What you're left with is a "theory" based on factless conjecture.

Factless conjecture is not a suitable foundation to base your beliefs and lives on.

i think if your an ignorant, dumb , stupid, etc. human being than you are, i mean its sad but true either you can comprehend and understand things or you cant, you are meaningless in the world thats why no one respects you or even knows you exist is because your ignorant

"i think if your an ignorant, dumb , stupid, etc. human being than you are, i mean its sad but true either you can comprehend and understand things or you cant, you are meaningless in the world thats why no one respects you or even knows you exist is because your ignorant"

This isn't a forum for saying things along these lines, this is a serious debate. Is this your frankly strange way of telling us your a fool? Thanks for your input.

you proved my point thank you, paul your the fool but i think you know that dont you

[edit on 18-12-2006 by trewth]

The entire problem with what you just done is that:

You have come into a forum and stated something completley irrelevant to the subject.

So you claim this is some sort of feint? If you don't have anything to put towards this argument, to put it simply, don't put anything towards it!

Originally posted by superpaul55
...when I say believers I do not mean people who believe aliens exists elsewhere in the universe.

You asked me why I thought aliens were here, not just elsewhere in the universe, and why I think there is a cover-up. I anwered both questions.

I'll quote you again:

What I ask from someone on this forum is for them to explain why they believe there are aliens on this planet and there is a global conspiracy, not a fury of links to paranoics web pages. Why do YOU believe it.

Maybe someone can make me change my mind.

The main issue with these paranoics is that they don't ever think about or go out and look for evidence against their belief, because they choose to ignore it, even the entire world history in many cases.

Have a look at Richard Dolen's book. This is a sober historian who has concluded, to his own astonishment, that there is a cover-up going on. Documented evidence of governmental lies is the norm. Why be skeptical that they would lie about something as important as that?

Yes, there are paranoid people out there, and there are, similarly, gullible people too. But equally well, there are people who take the "correctness" of the orthodox view for granted.

I have no idea what all that stuff about the Duracell rabbit is meant to convey.

So hopefully you may understand your criticism of the Scientific Method was not particularly useful.

If you think that what I have written is a criticism of the scientific method, then you yourself are guilty of not reading my posts (and the other thread) carefully. I am for the scientific method. My point is that skeptics don't use it. Read all my posts carefully again and please, if you can, point out where I am criticising the scientific method. I would guess that you will be unable to find anything to support this assertion.

You say "then the skeptics have a problem" if this evidence exists - the issue is as I already stated, that this planet is not a giant alien conspiracy.

Perhaps you should have been more precise in your use of language. I do lean towards the idea that the US and UK governments, at the least, know more than they are saying. I would characterise my position as being sympathetic to the Steven Greer/Disclosure Project idea, while accepting that there may well be some disinfo woven in with that narrative. Is this a giant alien conspiracy? I don't know.

Look at your post which I have quoted. The question has two parts, I answered them separately. You didn't specify the NATURE or OBJECT of the conspiracy, and I took it to mean a conspiracy to cover up the fact that ET spaceships make regular incursions into protected airspace, and that particular governments, at least, know more than they are saying.

You have provided proof for the possibilty of life elsewhere,

No, I provided evidence, not proof. There's a difference which you are just not getting. You think it's proof because you agree with it, that's all.

Where is the global conspiracy? If it did exist would this evidence you promote so greatly not have been the first thing to be destroyed?

Why destroy it when you can persuade people that it's all fake? That all the people who provide it are charlatans or paranoid nutters? And I've come across enough stories of evidence disappearing. Investigate the Maury Island sightings if you can be bothered, there's an example right there. If you can't be bothered, I'm not fussed about whether you want to research or not, I've answered the questions you posed. If you don't express yourself precisely then you might not get the answers you want.

My posts touched on the nature of skepticism and belief and how it's actually difficult to untangle the two. They are relevant to the discussion, and some people will be able to see that. I'm sorry if you can't.

first of all believers are people who have understanding and comprehension abilities that people like you dont have, but hey i dont mind explaining that to ignorant people

I will explain the Duracell Rabbit to you:

I believe that George Bush is the Duracell Rabbit, he came to this planet in a craft from out space. The reason you do not know that George Bush is the Duracell Rabbit is because he does not want you to know it, his space craft is also hidden in area 51 where you are allowed access. If you discover proof that George Bush is the Duracell Rabbit you are killed, and that is covered up as well. He has plans to take over the world and is therefore evil. He has no particular motivation to take over the world, he is just going to do it. You must know the truth.

From this is can quite simply be determined that is it impossible for you to find out the truth. Although it is of course true. Its just obvious.

I believe "Reality Hurts" summed the issue up perfectly in his post

"There are too many websites of people speculating without fact to base it on. From there it snowballs as more people read it."

People find one site, then link to another, then to another and finally end up on some bizzare and frankly rubbish website showing them 'evidence' for their fantasies. It results in such comments as:

"When the Grey's say that Humans are a stupid species."
"It seems that millions of abductee's are not good enough."
"People that gave there life to get this out is not good enough.... "

As pointed out earlier by an intelligent person, it has more in comparrison with texts from religion. It seems to actually be becoming a religion.

There is a scorn on those who agree to any conformity on anything in this forum. I do judge my life on the basis: what I see is what I believe, if I can't see it and it makes sense I believe it too.

The problem with the "global conspiracy" is that I don't see it and it doesn't make sense. There is no reason for a global alien takeover. If you can think of one please inform me. What do the aliens want? Every time I post my post is taken to bits, but once again nobody will say exactly what they believe.

Rich23, do you believe aliens are taking over this planet? If so, why?

Why I believe....

Several reasons. First and foremost, I think it's a bit conceited of our species to think that the entire universe revolves around us. Not really REVOLVES around, but you know what I mean. When you take into consideration the size of the universe and the theories that speculate that we may be only one of hundreds of universes, it's hard to think that our planet is the only one that bares "intelligent" life. Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about astronomy or astrobiology knows how ridiculous the thought of Earth being the only inhabited planet is.

Another thing...programs like SETI are always scrutinzed and said to be a waste of money. I'm divided on this because I DO believe that there are potentially hundreds of other intelligent civilizations out there, many of which are probably eons and eons of years above us in technological developments. I think that if we ever do come into contact with ETs, it will be through a means such as SETI but only when we have the technological capacity to do so.

Also...I'm not a believer in a worldwide conspiracy, but I DO think that there have been and continue to be, coverups pertaining to what the government knows. Recently, there have been the rumors that SETI has actually received ET signals that have been blocked or interfered with by outside sources. I think this is very likely....as severely damaged as our government is, now would not be the time for such a discovery to be made public...it would rob our governments of any credibility try may still have and cause the public to distrust them more than we already do.

And lastly...while "WHy do you believe" isn't an unfair question, per se, I think it's one that should be used any MANY circles. For instace, UFO buffs are always given this question, sometimes with the mocking resentment. Try asking a believer in God that question with the same tone. In a world where millions of people think that there is an omnipotent being that has allowed its STAR creation to go to hell in the way we have yet still devoutly worship and praise it/him, how is it so hard to fathom that others might believe that we are not alone in the universe? As a matter of fact, if there IS a God (something I have not yet made my mind up about), it would seem to me that it would make sure that we are NOT the only planet with life.

In closing...I DO think that there are other civilizations in the universe, most of them superior to us. I do think that the majority of UFOs spotted are alien spacecraft from other galaxies, maybe even times or universes or dimensions. And I think that most of us will see some form of proof of this within the next 50 years or so.

Thank you SOC, at last a decent asnwer. In what form do you think the proof will come? Do you think it will come in the next 50 years due to advances in technology?

I'm back on the fence on this...

50/50. While I don't believe most of what is out there, I do believe in the possibilities.

Originally posted by trewth
i think if your an ignorant, dumb , stupid, etc.

This type of behavior is not tolerated here and is the cause of your current warnings.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh say what? duhhhhhhhhhhhh ugaaaaaa bugaaaaaaaaaaaa im retardooooooooooooooo nice to meet yaaaaaaaaaa


seriously you gave me a "warning" fine i can accept that but what frightens me is that you missed my whole point lol

[edit on 18-12-2006 by trewth]

Originally posted by trewth
you missed my whole point

As far as I can tell your point is disruption and childish antics.

Whatever point you were attempting to make can easily be done without insults. If you're incapable of posting that way, you won't be posting.

Thank you.

i didnt insult anyone so i think i'll continue to post my opinions thank you



[edit on 18-12-2006 by trewth]

Originally posted by trewth
i didnt insult anyone so i think i'll continue to post my opinions thank you



[edit on 18-12-2006 by trewth]

You have insulted members. For example:

i think if your an ignorant, dumb , stupid, etc. human being than you are, i mean its sad but true either you can comprehend and understand things or you cant, you are meaningless in the world thats why no one respects you or even knows you exist is because your ignorant

you proved my point thank you, paul your the fool but i think you know that dont you

You have been warned; further infractions will result in a ban.

you think im going to let others call me a fool and just sit there and take it? well im not, no way

there are members here who have threatened to kill politicians and your hounding me because i called someone ignorant?

like i said i think i'll just continue to post my opinions thank you

Originally posted by trewth
you think im going to let others call me a fool and just sit there and take it? well im not, no way

there are members here who have threatened to kill politicians and your hounding me because i called someone ignorant?

like i said i think i'll just continue to post my opinions thank you

Sigh....

An opinion is a way of getting your view on something across, without having to necessarily insult anybody.
If every one reacted the way you do with "their" opinion, we would all be banned

Something which i think you will be if you don't calm down.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by Denied]

[edit on 18-12-2006 by Denied]

[edit on 18-12-2006 by Denied]