Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job w/video

that whole last post is exactly my point. you need to lighten up. nobody said that your research didnt amount to anything.....but i will say that unless youre an aeronautical engineer, your opinion holds just about the same weight as my opinion in regards to flight 77.

Originally posted by snafu7700
that whole last post is exactly my point. you need to lighten up. nobody said that your research didnt amount to anything.....but i will say that unless youre an aeronautical engineer, your opinion holds just about the same weight as my opinion in regards to flight 77.

While not an engineer i was a Crew Chief in the Air Force and i am now a Aata Analysist at NSA with the Office of Weapons and Space.

Sorry if i came across that way but i have had too many people insult me or question my research right off the bat without doing any of thier own.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Sorry if i came across that way but i have had too many people insult me or question my research right off the bat without doing any of thier own.

fair enough, and i apologize for being more than a little sarcastic.

No inside job ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon
Read my posts on the mysterious white jet plane which was intercepted on 9/11 in the LATE afternoon when air traffic controllers in Washington feared it could pose a thread to the returning Air Force One with GWB on board, which was ready to land and was guarded by multiple jet fighters.

Please note carefully the words written in this OFFICIAL report : "It turned out to be flying around ALL DAY already."

ALL non military flights were ordered to land on the nearest airports before 10am that MORNING.
It MUST have been a black-ops plane.

For some sarcastic notes on foreknowledge and shoot down orders of the US government, and this particular white jet, sighted all day at all events, read the next 4 pages at DavesWeb pages :
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...
This one is not published , -yet- :
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...

I hope you also remember the news, that on 9/11 a New York area FAA air traffic controller supervisor, took away all tape-recordings from a bunch of atc's who were discussing the events of that day, and he reportedly cut them in pieces by means of a scissor, and then dropped the pieces in several waste baskets spread all over the building.

If this story is really true, or an invention of one of the dis-informists, I do not remember anymore, and up till now I have not found anything anymore regarding this story while googling around with these keywords :
" FAA supervisor cuts air traffic controllers tapes with scissor baskets "
I have it somewhere in my files however, but that really is a mess momentarily.

snafu7700, first of all thanks for your inside view of what happened on 9/11.

I have a couple of questions for you. In the video the guy mentioned that some air traffic controllers were probably made aware as soon as Flight 11 diverged from it's flight path and then probably all of them would have been notified immediately after the first plane struck the WTC (or something like that).

If you were working that day as an air traffic controller, when did you first hear of the attack? And if you could tell us how things were handled after that?

Thanks.

i've never heard of that white jet you mentioned, so i'll read your sources and get back to you.

edit: i remember Valhall asking me about that jet. honestly, i have no idea. he could have been some guy out flying around vfr not listening to atc so therefore not knowing what was going on, or he could, indeed have been a military learjet. 90 percent of the lears i have ever seen have been painted white, so that doesnt necessarily mean anything. i just cant say for certain who or what he was.....sorry.

Originally posted by LaBTop

I hope you also remember the news, that on 9/11 a New York area FAA air traffic controller supervisor, took away all tape-recordings from a bunch of atc's who were discussing the events of that day, and he reportedly cut them in pieces by means of a scissor, and then dropped the pieces in several waste baskets spread all over the building.

If this story is really true, or an invention of one of the dis-informists, I do not remember anymore, and up till now I have not found anything anymore regarding this story while googling around with these keywords :
" FAA supervisor cuts air traffic controllers tapes with scissor baskets "
I have it somewhere in my files however, but that really is a mess momentarily.

i have commented on this before.....and ended up on twitchy's ignore list because he didnt like the truth of it.

the original digital recordings were not destroyed. i dont know where they are (probably fbi headquarters), but they were held indefinitely. what happened was that several controllers went into the recording room and made their own copies of transmissions, which is against federal law......which is why the tapes (the controller's personal copies, not the originals), were destroyed. hope that clears things up for you a bit.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by Hal9000

I have a couple of questions for you. In the video the guy mentioned that some air traffic controllers were probably made aware as soon as Flight 11 diverged from it's flight path and then probably all of them would have been notified immediately after the first plane struck the WTC (or something like that).

If you were working that day as an air traffic controller, when did you first hear of the attack? And if you could tell us how things were handled after that?

Thanks.

well, i was working in a tower on 9/11, not the center that i'm at now. i am going to give you guys some info that i have from that day. the orders from the command center were printed on flight strips in the form of GI (general information) messages which have the time of issue on them (the messages went out to every facility in the country in this order, and these particular ones were sent to us by the TMU (traffic management unti) at atlanta center (ZTL)). i made copies of all of the messages, and will post them verbatim:

1307 (9:07am): GI W1 TMU ADVZY....GROUND STOP ALL TFC DEST NORTH OF PHL INTO ZNY CENTER....EXPECT UPDATE BY 1400Z (10am).

1313 (9:13am): GI W1 TMU ADVZY....GROUND STOP ALL AIRCRAFT DESTINATIONS NORTH OF WASHINGTON METRO AIRPORTS.......EXPECT UPDATE AT 1500Z (11am).

1327 (9:27am): GI W2 TMU ADVISORY....ALL GROUND STOP....HOLD ALL ACFT ON GROUND.

1329 (9:29am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY......THE GROUND STOP INCLUDES ALL TRAFFIC. LET NO TRAFFIC AT ALL DEPART. EVERYONE IS GROUND STOPPED. VALID UFA (until further notice).

1344 (9:44am): GI G2 ZTL TMU ADVZY....REF GROUND STOP........DO NOT LET ANY AIRCRAFT OFF THE GROUND.......VFRS INCLUDED. (vfr aircraft are the guys flying by visual flight rules and dont have to talk to atc....they fly below 18,000 ft....above that you have to be talking to atc).

1346 (9:46am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY....LAND ALL AIRBORN TRFC ASAP WHERE EVER POSSIBLE PER ATCSCC (the command center).

1404 (10:04am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY.......NOTHING DEPARTS.....ALLOW NO DEPARTURES....THIS INCLUDES LIFEGUARD FLIGHTS.....ANY QUESTIONS CALL ZTL DIAL 94.

1418 (1018am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY.....LAW ENFORCEMENT* SEARCH AND RESCUE* AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT REQUESTING DEPARTURE WILL BE ACCEPTED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.....DIAL ZTL94/ZTL92/ZTL98/ZTL93 FOR RELEASE.

1423 (1023am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY....ALL TOWERS ACCEPT ALL DIVERSIONS EVEN IF YOU DO NOT HAVE RAMP SPACE......ACCEPT ALL DIVERSIONS.

1509 (1109am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY.......PER ATCSCC....VFR ACRFT DETERMINED TO DEPART CANNOT BE HELD ON THE GROUND.....HOWEVER.....ATC SERVICES/IFR FLIGHT PLANS/WILL NOT BE PROVIDED.....QUESTIONS DIAL ZTL TMU DIAL 94/98/92/96.

1516 (1116am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY...PER ATCSCC.....VFR ACRFT DETERMINED TO DEPART CANNOT BE HELD ON THE GROUND.....HOWEVER.....NO ATC SERVICES OF ANY TYPE WILL BE PROVIDED.....A/C NOT AUTHORIZED IN THE AIR AR SUBJECT TO MILITARY INTERCEPT.

1526 (1126am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY....CONT....PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE OVER ALL EMERG FREQS AND VOR VOICE.

the message we were to read on emergency frequencies is as follows:

DUE TO EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES AND FOR REASONS OF SAFETY.....ATTENTION ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATORS.....BY ORDER OF THE FEDERAL AVIATION COMMAND CENTER.....ALL AIRPORTS/AIRDROMES ARE NOT AUTHORIZED FOR LANDING AND TAKEOFF...ALL TRFC INCLUDING AIRBORN AIRCRAFT ARE ENCOURAGED TO LAND SHORTLY....INCLDNG HELICOPTER TRFC.....AIRCRAFT INVOLVED IN FIREFIGHTING IN THE NW ARE EXCLUDED.

1539 (1139am): GI W2 ZTL TMU ADVZY.......LIFEGUARD FLIGHTS REQUESTING DEPARTURE WILL BE ACCEPTED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.....DIAL ZTL 94 FOR RELEASE AUTHORIZATION....BE ADVISED RELEASE MAY NOT BE IMMEDIATE.

(lifeguard flights are aircraft that are carrying patients in critical condition or body parts such as hearts and kidneys for immediate transplant).

1725 (1:25pm) GI W2 TM ADVZY.....ANY REQUEST FOR UTILIZATION OF THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM MUST BE FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY...MILITARY...LAW ENFORCEMENT OR OTHER ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL FLIGHT CLEARANCE.

the time might be different by a minute or two depending upon which center was sending out the info, but every facility in the country would have gotten the same basic messages at roughly the same times. hope that helps to answer your question.

Edit to correct local time of first GI message.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by snafu7700]

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well.

Originally posted by snafu7700
1307 (9:13am): GI W1 TMU ADVZY....GROUND STOP ALL TFC DEST NORTH OF PHL INTO ZNY CENTER....EXPECT UPDATE BY 1400Z (10am).

Just to be clear, was this the first notice you received about trouble on that day? If this went out at 9:13 this was half an hour after the first plane crashed and the message only mentions stopping aircraft from taking off (if I read it correctly). Did you recieve earlier warnings of planes diverging from flight plans or possible highjackings before the first plane struck the tower at 8:46 as this guy claims in the video?

Originally posted by Hal9000

Just to be clear, was this the first notice you received about trouble on that day? If this went out at 9:13 this was half an hour after the first plane crashed and the message only mentions stopping aircraft from taking off (if I read it correctly). Did you recieve earlier warnings of planes diverging from flight plans or possible highjackings before the first plane struck the tower at 8:46 as this guy claims in the video?

EDIT: the first notice was at 9:07am. i got the GMT time right, but messed up the local time.....i've since corrected it.

yes, this is the first official notice. however, keep in mind that, as i mentioned, at the time i was posted to a small tower in the southeast...not a radar center on the east coast as i am now. i know from talking to guys who were in the centers that day that alot of information was passed on the landlines by word of mouth before the official notices started coming out. but yes, that was the first nationwide notice sent out to all facilities and no, we werent advised of the possibility of hijacked aircraft.....of course, by that time we had all seen the news and had a pretty good idea what was going on.






[edit on 19-12-2006 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by snafu7700
but yes, that was the first nationwide notice sent out to all facilities and no, we werent advised of the possibility of hijacked aircraft.....of course, by that time we had all seen the news and had a pretty good idea what was going on.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess this shows this guy is wrong about that point. There was something else he said about when fighter craft would have been scrambled, but I will have to listen to it again later.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by LaBTop

In the afternoon, Sasseville and Lucky were flying their second mission of the day--armed with AIM-9 missiles now--when they were told to contact an AWACS aircraft in the area and "expect special tasking." They were directed to fly a 280-deg. heading for 140 naut. mi.--almost due west of Washington. Unable to communicate by secure or encrypted means, the AWACS controller lowered his voice and told Sasseville via radio they were going to "escort Air Force One," President Bush's aircraft.
Two Langley F-15s offered to go along, and Sasseville concurred. Soon, an AWACS controller reported a fast-moving, unidentified aircraft southwest of Air Force One, approximately 60 naut. mi. away, but on a "cutoff vector" to the President's Boeing 747. It was above 40,000 ft. and the 747 was "in the 20,000-ft. range," but Sasseville sent the F-15s to intercept the unknown aircraft.
It was a Learjet that hadn't yet landed after aircraft nationwide had been ordered out of the air.

Sasseville and the two F-15s later joined on Air Force One, while Lucky positioned her F-16 about 10 naut. mi. in front of the 747. With the SADL data link system, she was able to monitor her location relative to Sasseville's SADL-equipped F-16 positioned on Air Force One's left wing. Another flight of F-16s from Ellington AFB, Tex., were about 5 mi. in trail. They had escorted the President from Offutt AFB, Neb., according to 121st FS officers.
Why the Washington-based F-16s were sent to shadow the President's aircraft back to Andrews AFB has not been disclosed. Apparently, someone in the Norad or Secret Service command loop had received information about a potential threat to the 747, prompting a request for additional armed escorts.
Surrounded by fighters, Air Force One descended rapidly toward its home base. Lucky made a clearing pass over the airfield, pulled up, circled back and joined on Sasseville's wing. All of the fighters remained with the 747 until the latter landed, then climbed and established a CAP over Andrews.
Despite being short of aircrews the next few days, the 121st flew continuously for about 63 hr., maintaining protective CAPs over Washington. They were aided by fighters from other ANG, Reserve and active-duty units, as well.
"We were generating airplanes faster than they could put 'em up," remarked Belknap. "And we still are."

So who owned that white Lear Jet ? ? ?

A white Lear jet or look alike was seen in New York flying around the WTC towers just before they got hit.
A white Lear jet or look alike was seen at Shanksville when flight 93 went down.
And this Lear jet was intercepted by F-16s from Washington when Air Force One seemed to be threatened when G.W.Bush came back to the White House at around 17:30 PM.
That Lear jet was flying around all day of 9/11, sightseeing the 9/11 events :
It was a Lear jet that hadn't yet landed after aircraft nationwide had been ordered out of the air.
That was around 09:30 AM ! G.W.Bush returned at about 17:30 PM !

It looks like the "planners" were so damn curious, that they wanted to see for them selfs what happened that day.
They sent cameramen to record their Coup d'Etat !

I will not be surprised when in a not so far future video footage shot from that plane will be worth a lot of money in certain wealthy circles.

Snafu7700, we are dealing here with an official USAF report, telling us that an unidentified, fast-moving aircraft southwest of Air Force One, was on an intercept course to Air Force One, which was coming from Offutt AFB, Nebraska.
The very same AFB in Nebraska where Warren Buffet had organized the morning of 9/11 a meeting with the top echelons from the wealthiest corporations in America. George W. Bush and company had landed there in the morning, coming from Florida, and joined these people and top military brass.

Air Force One came from due west and the Lear Jet came from southwest. That means it wasn't an intercontinental flight coming from overseas, which accidentally slipped through the radar. It was clearly flying around all day already in US airspace, unidentified by any ATC, and at that moment at an altitude above 40,000 ft., which means it wasn't flying around vfr, it had to have turned on its transponder at that altitude.

( 1344 (9:44am): GI G2 ZTL TMU ADVZY....REF GROUND STOP........DO NOT LET ANY AIRCRAFT OFF THE GROUND.......VFRS INCLUDED. (vfr aircraft are the guys flying by visual flight rules and dont have to talk to atc....they fly below 18,000 ft....above that you have to be talking to atc). )

It had been flying in US airspace for maximum 7 to 9 hours if we start counting from the moment of the first WTC impact.
Of course it could have been Warren Buffet's plane, or a CIA blackops one, but not a military one. That would have been known to the AWACS atc's, but the AWACS controller reported it as unidentified.

Family of mine was an AWACS controller, and thus I find it very strange that in such a top secret situation, on the first day in US history that all aircrafts were grounded, an UNIDENTIFIED fast-moving aircraft was allowed within 60 nautical miles reach of Air Force One.
That is within range of most modern air to air missiles.
The AWACS commander must have known much earlier that that Lear Jet was coming, they could see fighter jets take off from Moscow airports, while flying at cruising altitude along the east German Iron Curtain in the eighties already.

I have a strong suspicion that this Lear Jet was a warning from some military side, involved in the 9/11 events, given to the US President, that he could be in sudden danger at any time if he ignored the military might.



[edit on 20/12/06 by LaBTop]

well, let me start by saying that we're back into the realm of my personal opinion, as i dont know a whole lot about this white jet. however, i dont believe that this was some sort of warning from military members attempting a coup. as for the additional armed escort for air force one, as far as the government was concerned, we were at war with unknown forces.....they took the appropriate steps to ensure the safety of potus.

some possibilities:

1. a military lear transporting a team of experts back to washington to help in figuring the mess out (most learjets in military service are used for transport of VIPs).

2. a lifeguard aircraft that was released by tmu with a critical patient or time-sensitive body parts on board.

3. a survey aircraft of somekind to take pictures of the affected areas for the pentagon to help straighten the whole mess out.

4. a law enforcement aircraft of some kind.

is there any record that this particular aircraft was talking to atc? because, in my mind, the only thing that would make it really suspicious is if it had done the same thing as the hijacked aircraft and turned it's transponder off above FL180 (18000 ft), thereby making it harder to track by atc (of course, the military awacs would pick it up without much of a problem considering that the sky had been emptied of virtually all other traffic).

[edit on 20-12-2006 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by Black_Fox

"On September 11th I'm one of the few people who really within quite a few hours of the whole event taking place just simply knew that it was an inside job, and it wasn't because of the visuals, the collapses, whatever....I knew that it was an inside job I think within about four or five o'clock that afternoon and the reason that I knew is because when those aircraft did collide and then we got the news and information on where the aircraft were and where they went....if they knew where the aircraft were and were talking to them at a certain time then normal protocol is to get fighter jet aircraft up assist," said Hordon.

complete and utter crap. this guy is playing on the public's ignorance. pre-9/11 procedure and post-9/11 procedure are two completely different things. prior to 9/11, our method of dealing with hijackings was basically to do nothing.

MY REPLY:

Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft (AP, August 13 2002).

SORRY HAVING PROBS WITH QUOTING! THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A QUOTE. REGARDS FROM CLIPPER





[edit on 20-12-2006 by Clipper]

[edit on 20-12-2006 by Clipper]

yes, but prior to 9/11 we didnt intercept with the intention of shooting it down if necessary, and we didnt have the fighters "pull up alonside and look in the windows" as this former controller suggests, except in very extreme cases such as the payne stewart learjet. the issue isnt fighter intercepts, it's that this kind of situation had never occurred before, and regular hijack procedures could not be applied, because there was no communication from the hijackers, and the planes had popped off the scopes....nobody had ever dealt with that before.

as far as 67 intercepts in that time period, i have no doubts that number is correct.....but you have to understand the many different reasons for sending up fighters. unidentified aircraft entering US airpspace without a flight plan is a biggy.....and it happens quite a bit.....and not necessarily because the aircraft are actually illegally intering the country. the majority of the time somebody dropped the ball in regards to paperwork, and norad simply had no idea who the guy is. another big one is aircraft who get too close to the white house or camp david.....or other areas of national security the nature of which i cant and wont mention here.

hope that makes sense to ya.

Thanks Snafu.

What we have is the most sophisticated defense on the planet. We are talking about the nation that spends half the global defense budget.

Four commercial jets are hijacked. No fighters scrambled (although it appears Flight 93 was shot down). It is a legal requirement to scramble fighters when planes go off route. This happened so many times before 9/11 it was routine.

So who has taken responsibility for this serious failure of defense, this complete breakdown in systems? Who has been charged with a failure to carry out their duty? Who has been sacked?

We should put all this in context with the intelligence information that the US government already had. Bush ignored a document he was given called Bin Laden Determined to attack America.

Instead of strengthening Defenses against an attack that they were expecting either through incompetence or through deliberate manipulation they let it happen.

That is not a conspiracy theory. That is a fact.

Originally posted by Clipper
It is a legal requirement to scramble fighters when planes go off route. This happened so many times before 9/11 it was routine.

umm, no....it has never been a policy to scramble fighters every time a flight goes off route. it's a case by case basis, and there is no law that states it's mandatory to scramble. if we scrambled fighters for every single plane that went off route, the military wouldnt have the time or manpower and equipment for combat operations in iraq and afgahnistan....i'll bet it happens at least ten times a day per center....and there are twenty one centers spread throught the US.

So who has taken responsibility for this serious failure of defense, this complete breakdown in systems? Who has been charged with a failure to carry out their duty? Who has been sacked?

while i agree that alot of balls were dropped on 9/11, i dont think you can blame any one person. there was so much confusion that day and so many things happened that nobody was trained to deal with, that i'm amazed nobody accidentally shot a non-hijacked airliner out of the sky. i'm serious, it was that confused of a situation.

Originally posted by snafu7700
while i agree that alot of balls were dropped on 9/11, i dont think you can blame any one person. there was so much confusion that day and so many things happened that nobody was trained to deal with, that i'm amazed nobody accidentally shot a non-hijacked airliner out of the sky. i'm serious, it was that confused of a situation.

I still have a problem with the fact that out of 4 planes not one got a call off either verbally or through the transponder codes that they were being hijacked. Lots of planes have been hijacked and at least 90% of the time or better the pilots have gotten off a signal that they were being hijacked.

How long does it take to say something over the radio or punch 4 digits into a key pad ?

I have a problem with people assuming that these pilots, flight attendants, and passengers had the ability to react they way people would have either expected to or wanted them to. No one was there...all we know is what was said on the cell phone calls and 911 calls....

Originally posted by CameronFox
I have a problem with people assuming that these pilots, flight attendants, and passengers had the ability to react they way people would have either expected to or wanted them to. No one was there...all we know is what was said on the cell phone calls and 911 calls....

We all know pilots and attendents are well trained to handle emergencies. Also as stated how long does it take to say "Mayday" or to punch in 4 digits on a keypad while someone is trying to get into the cockpit. Out of 8 people in the cockpits not 1 had the time or idea to put out a call or signal for help ? What are the odds of that ?

Other hijacked aircraft have gotten out calls for help, what happned that these pilots on these 4 aircraft could not get out a call ?

Can someone Google examples of highkacked planes that could not put the 7777 code up before "being surprised"...

Maybe I am mistaken and fairly common...