Reasons Why I Believe There Is A God

I will list a couple of reasons why I believe there is a God.

If you wish, please feel free to share your reasons.

1. The fact that something exists instead of nothing, if there is no God, you have to ask yourself why something exists instead of nothing at all.

2.The fact that beauty exists, it is said that animals do not see in color, if we are just another animal, why do we experience beauty and see in color?

3. The fact that the universe is self conscious. For the universe to exist and not be aware of itself is one thing, but the fact that it has become self conscious is totally insane.

4. The fact that the universe is not eternal, we know that time and space have a beginning, so who caused the first movement?

There are probably many more that I can list, but I will just list these four for now.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I will list a couple of reasons why I believe there is a God.

If you wish, please feel free to share your reasons.

1. The fact that something exists instead of nothing, if there is no God, you have to ask yourself why something exists instead of nothing at all.

why couldn't SOMETHING (ie, existence) eternally exist?
why must we include a creator?
the addition of an eternal creator being seems to add an unnecassary step

2.The fact that beauty exists, it is said that animals do not see in color, if we are just another animal, why do we experience beauty and see in color?

evolutionary biproduct
beautiful things tend to be associated with comfortable situations
you wouldn't consider a thicket of brambles covered in dung beautiful because it doesn't seem appealing
and many animals DO see in color (bees see colors in things that we don't, for example)

3. The fact that the universe is self conscious. For the universe to exist and not be aware of itself is one thing, but the fact that it has become self conscious is totally insane.

i do not understand what you mean by this statement, if you could elaborate it would help

4. The fact that the universe is not eternal, we know that time and space have a beginning, so who caused the first movement?

OUR universe had a beginning, that is true
maybe a collision of 2 other universes created ours
maybe something else did
but, just because one thing had a beginning, doesn't mean that there wasn't something there before it

why couldn't SOMETHING (ie, existence) eternally exist?
why must we include a creator?
the addition of an eternal creator being seems to add an unnecassary step

Well, because like is said before, we know this universe had a beginning and that everything will eventually die out in it, so it cannot be eternal.

evolutionary biproduct
beautiful things tend to be associated with comfortable situations
you wouldn't consider a thicket of brambles covered in dung beautiful because it doesn't seem appealing
and many animals DO see in color (bees see colors in things that we don't, for example)

Yes, but bees cannot see like we do, they only see at the lower end of the visible spectrum, and ultraviolet radiation.

i do not understand what you mean by this statement, if you could elaborate it would help

What I'm saying is, the universe knows it's existing, and when i say the universe, i mean WE know we're existing. This goes back to that old philosophical argument about a tree falling in the forest, if there is no one there to hear the tree fall, did it make a sound?

If there is no one here to perceive the universes existence, does it exist?

OUR universe had a beginning, that is true
maybe a collision of 2 other universes created ours
maybe something else did
but, just because one thing had a beginning, doesn't mean that there wasn't something there before it

Well this is an irrelevant question as we will never know that other universes exist.

Believing in other universes will take some faith, just as it takes faith to believe in God, although I believe it is much easier to believe in God as he has revealed himself to us.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleoneYes, but bees cannot see like we do, they only see at the lower end of the visible spectrum, and ultraviolet radiation.

Most apes have trichromatic vision, so do old world monkeys, fish, and reptiles. Bees have the same number of receptors as we do, they have blue, green and UV. We have blue, green, and red.

Of course, form your POV you will believe that seeing the red range is better, but I think a bee would probably prefer UV photoreceptors as it is adaptive for its environment.

But if you really think that we have the optimum vision because we have trichromatic vision that involves the red area of the spectrum and that this is suggestive of god giving us the best senses, I wonder why there are other species that have tetrachromatic vision that includes red, green, blue, and UV - seems they got the the better deal.

Colour vision never evolved for the appreciation of beauty, it enhanced survival and reproduction.

I never said that we had the best vision, what I'm saying is, why does color even exist period?

It is not needed to survive, or reproduce, and if you think it is, you're only kidding yourself, could you please explain how color vision would help me get a mate more than if I had black and white vision?



[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I never said that we had the best vision, what I'm saying is, why does color even exist period? It is not needed to survive, or reproduce.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

But you did say that bees only see certain wavelengths, implying that what we see is in some way a better arrangement. We only see certain wavelengths compared to other species.

Colour is just our perception of the energy reflected by objects after they have absorbed certain wavelengths of the spectrum.

Seeing UV enables bees to find flowers easily. Seeing red may have enabled early man and apes to find ripened fruit easier or even as a signal of conspecific emotional state (signaling sexual readiness, anger, shame etc etc), maybe both.

So the point is, it doesn't need to be essential, just to provide an advantage over not having that trait in a particular environment.

For your edit: If an individual can see when fruit is ripe, tell a poisonious food from a non-poisonious food, tell the emotional state of conspecifics, they will have more survival success than other individuals within that population - they will have more successful offspring and eventually come to predominate in that population. However, as we see with colour blindness, the old alleles (traits) may still be in the population.

Here's an extreme way of looking at it - If a group of individuals had minimal vision, they may be able to survive and reproduce, but they will not survive and reproduce as successfully as some individuals who come to possess a mutation that gave full sight in one eye - in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Eventually, most of the population would be one-eyed.

How do you think another mutation that provided full sight in two eyes would do?

ABE II: And just to make humans look even more retarded in the visual arena, mantis shrimps are at the minimum octachromats and have the most complex eyes in the animal kingdom...

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
1. The fact that something exists instead of nothing, if there is no God, you have to ask yourself why something exists instead of nothing at all.

I can ask myself why, but the answer isn't automatically "God". There could be hundreds of answers. Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean it must be God. God is not the default answer to everything that we don't fully understand.

2.The fact that beauty exists, it is said that animals do not see in color, if we are just another animal, why do we experience beauty and see in color?

Whoever said all animals are color blind is wrong.

Bird Vision
On the other hand, birds who forage and feed in the daylight see colors very clearly from far off. It's been said that a hummingbird can spot red flowers from over a half mile away.

Primates, too!
There is considerable variation between primates in terms of the ability to see colors. The best color vision exists in diurnal species. This is not surprising. Color sensitive cones would be of little use to nocturnal primates due to the fact that they require the relatively bright light of daytime to detect color.

3. The fact that the universe is self conscious. For the universe to exist and not be aware of itself is one thing, but the fact that it has become self conscious is totally insane.

Insane? Perhaps, although I wouldn't call it that. But that still doesn't prove the existence of a deity. Again, the default answer to that which is not understood is not necessarily "God".

And how do you know that the universe is self conscious?

4. The fact that the universe is not eternal, we know that time and space have a beginning, so who caused the first movement?

Just because there's a question, doesn't mean that God is the answer.

This is a question that is not even up for debate in my mind. There is a God.. I, at one time in my life, had some doubt but God showed me... some things that were personally enough for me to believe in his existence.. I really have no intention on convincing anyone else. I have no need to. You either believe or you don't. There is nothing that I could say or do otherwise to convince a mind to believe in something that he/she is closed off to..

nice way to put it speaker

it isn't an issue of proof or evidence
it's about faith and belief

i will never believe in a diety (well, again, i used to)

a devout theist/person of faith will never NOT believe in a diety

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
There is nothing that I could say or do otherwise to convince a mind to believe in something that he/she is closed off to..

Or alternatively, that you have convinced yourself so much, through desire and maybe social pressure that what you want and feel is true, is actually true.

scienceblogs.com...

The mind is a strange thing...

But ignore that, I do applaud you for not searching for real-world objective evidence. If you have faith, then it should rely on faith and the subjective, not objective evidence

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
There is nothing that I could say or do otherwise to convince a mind to believe in something that he/she is closed off to..

Or alternatively, that you have convinced yourself so much, through desire and maybe social pressure that what you want and feel is true, is actually true.

scienceblogs.com...

The mind is a strange thing...

But ignore that, I do applaud you for not searching for real-world objective evidence. If you have faith, then it should rely on faith and the subjective, not objective evidence

And who gave us the power of the mind? I did not give it to myself.

And as for the whole early man/fruit thing, that is easily fixable.

I still have my sense of taste, I could taste the fruit and see if it's bad or ripe, or I could just kill another animal and eat it.

What you said still does not fully explain our need for color to survive and reproduce, as you can see, it's easy to do both without color.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
This is a question that is not even up for debate in my mind. There is a God.. I, at one time in my life, had some doubt but God showed me... some things that were personally enough for me to believe in his existence.. I really have no intention on convincing anyone else. I have no need to. You either believe or you don't. There is nothing that I could say or do otherwise to convince a mind to believe in something that he/she is closed off to..

Good answer speaker, this question is not a debate for me either, I know God Exists.

But I do want people to believe in him so they can have the Light of Truth with them.

I am really disgusted by the way we are only seen as a glorified ape now a days. What ever happened to the old days when man was seen as the crown of creation, when we were something more than a man, we were eternal. We were created in Gods own image.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
And who gave us the power of the mind? I did not give it to myself.

You were born with the capability to develop one?

And as for the whole early man/fruit thing, that is easily fixable.

I still have my sense of taste, I could taste the fruit and see if it's bad or ripe, or I could just kill another animal and eat it.

What you said still does not fully explain our need for color to survive and reproduce, as you can see it's easy to do both without color.

But you will still have wasted time and effort looking for the fruit that will be nutritious. Whilst the trichromats will see ripe fruit easily, you will be spending more time looking for enough fruit to sustain you and your children.

But as I said, that may not be the only reason, or even the true reason. It could well just be a development that enables signaling between conspecifics. Human language is a very recent adaptation.

I am really disgusted by the way we are only seen as a glorified ape now a days. What ever happened to the old days when man was seen as the crown of creation, when we were something more than a man, we were eternal. We were created in Gods own image.

It's not about what feels nice. It is what the evidence tells us. We are more than just an ape anyway, pity we're not more like our bonobo cousins rather than common chimps though.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]

This is a joke, everything that science says is so relative it's not even funny.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Good answer speaker, this question is not a debate for me either, I know God Exists.

But I do want people to believe in him so they can have the Light of Truth with them.

I am really disgusted by the way we are only seen as a glorified ape now a days. What ever happened to the old days when man was seen as the crown of creation, when we were something more than a man, we were eternal. We were created in Gods own image.

see, there is your problem

you don't realize that speaker DOESN'T CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVE

we have freedom to believe what we think is truth

also, we do not all believe that man is nothing but a glorified ape

i see humanity as one of the most amazing products of evolution on this planet
i see humanity as something not eternal, but as something everchanging
evolution will take place, and in a few thousand generations we will be even more spectacular than we are now

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Good answer speaker, this question is not a debate for me either, I know God Exists.

But I do want people to believe in him so they can have the Light of Truth with them.

I am really disgusted by the way we are only seen as a glorified ape now a days. What ever happened to the old days when man was seen as the crown of creation, when we were something more than a man, we were eternal. We were created in Gods own image.

see, there is your problem

you don't realize that speaker DOESN'T CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVE

we have freedom to believe what we think is truth

also, we do not all believe that man is nothing but a glorified ape

i see humanity as one of the most amazing products of evolution on this planet
i see humanity as something not eternal, but as something everchanging
evolution will take place, and in a few thousand generations we will be even more spectacular than we are now

See, there is YOUR problem, Truth is not relative, there can only be one truth.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
This is a joke, everything that science says is so relative it's not even funny.

It's so unfunny and relative that you sit at a product of science talking to people on the other side of the world...

It's not about what feels nice. It is what the evidence tells us. We are more than just an ape anyway, pity we're not more like our bonobo cousins rather than common chimps though.

Oh really, and where is the evidence? Can you show me all of the millions of evolving chimp bones, or even at least even ONE chimp that is starting to evolve?

I could not say I believe- I know! I have had the experience of being gripped by something that is stronger than myself,something that people call God

Carl Jung Carl Jung And God

[edit on 11-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

It's not about what feels nice. It is what the evidence tells us. We are more than just an ape anyway, pity we're not more like our bonobo cousins rather than common chimps though.

Oh really, and where is the evidence? Can you show me all of the millions of evolving chimp bones, or even at least even ONE chimp that is starting to evolve?

The evidence is so compelling to be quite funny when I see people denying it.

All species are evolving all the time. With every generation, evolution takes place. With every new version of the flu and aids virii, bacteria that become immune to antibiotics, with new species of organisms being shown to have evolved.

But if you want a cat evolving into a dog style of evolution, you may have to either wait a while or use the historical and genetic evidence we have.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by melatonin]