Christmas Trees Removed From Sea-Tac

Just about everyone is aware of the fact that a lot of things were based off pagan celebrations/traditions. A Christmas tree for example, you are right it has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. BUT it has become a tradition. It now has different symbology than it did in the begining. It is something people do to celebrate the birth of Christ. Kind of like balloons have nothing to do with birthdays, it is just a tradition, something you do when you celebrate.

For Christians, Christmas trees symbolize Christmas. Which is the celebration of the birth of our savior. We all know that his actual day of birth is a mystery. BUT we feel that that day of his birth was a day of great importance, so a very symbolic day was chosen, and we celebrate. Nothing wrong with that.

I have split feelings about them taking out the Christmas trees. On one hand, I firmly believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and our savior. Jews, do not believe that. So, if I was given the choice to either put up a manora in my home or take down my tree, I would take down my tree in a heart beat. There is no way I will place something in my home that says I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. This was their airport, and it looks like they felt the same way.

On the other hand, if you are going to invite people in from different religions, it would be polite to make them feel welcome and put in a manora.


But it is good to keep in mind, that people do feel strongly about their religions. This is not as simple as changing the color of the room because people did not like it. This was one man who firmly believes that Jesus Christ was NOT the son of God, vs a man who DID. Oil and water dont mix. Never has and it never will.


To be perfectly honest, I would have done the same thing.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by mrsdudara]

People are pathetic. If you care that much about a damn Christmas tree, and it offends you that much, do me a favor and get out of this country.

There are far bigger issues in the world that need resolved before we deal with petty issues like this.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
For Christians, Christmas trees symbolize Christmas.

Not true.

I am a Christian and I do not see the tree having anything to do with my Faith, nor do many other Christians.

The reason Christian churches put up Christmas trees is to draw non believers in with a symbol that looks familiar to them and makes them feel comfortable. It's the ol' bait and switch once they get in the door. Sounds quite deceptive but not necessarily. We do feel it's for good and during the season when some people are driving around in a sad state when they see that tree in the window it's like a beacon. Also, on many occasions that trip inside the church thwarts a Christmas suicide.

Originally posted by jbondo
I am a Christian and I do not see the tree having anything to do with my Faith, nor do many other Christians.

So you do not put up a Christmas tree? Ok, well several of us do. Why? Because it is Christmas, and that is part of how we celebrate Christmas.

Originally posted by jbondo The reason Christian churches put up Christmas trees is to draw non believers in with a symbol that looks familiar to them and makes them feel comfortable. It's the ol' bait and switch once they get in the door. Sounds quite deceptive but not necessarily. We do feel it's for good and during the season when some people are driving around in a sad state when they see that tree in the window it's like a beacon. Also, on many occasions that trip inside the church thwarts a Christmas suicide.

You have got to be kidding me. Surely you can come up with something better than that. You are trying to tell me that Christmas trees are the reason for so many suicides this time of year. C'mon

Originally posted by jbondo
I was just wondering how it felt to all the non Christians that love their Christmas tree to have their apple cart turned over and their traditions attacked?

My traditions are not being attacked. If I want a Christmas tree, I'll damn well have one! I don't, however insist that every public building, street or town center cater to MY traditions. That's the difference here.

SeaTac can do whatever they wish. They chose to take the trees down. It's no skin off my traditions.

Update:

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

It sounds like they didn't put up the menorah becuase they only had one day before the lawsuit and were afraid of:

1) what was an acceptable presentation
2) who would be next to want their "symbol" put up
3) how were they going to do things right and within budget without seeing another lawsuit from someone else complaining.

This all sounds like they just didn't want to get on the expensive lawsuit train that was coming. Ugh, how many times are lawsuits of small instances going to decide national policies without the vote of the people?

Things have or don't have popularity for whatever reason. Pretty things tend to be popular simply because they are pretty. Christmas trees are pretty (and they smell good too), so people of many beliefs and non-beliefs buy and decorate them, because they are pretty (and they smell good, too).

People complain that the religions of the world or the monotheist religions in particular, are a big problem because they don't try to get along or be peaceful with each other or others. This was what the Catholic Church was attempting to do when it incorporated pagan holidays (solstice and equinox celebrations) and trappings into christian events. It's what is referred to as ecumenism, an attempt to get various religions to get along under the umbrella of one faith.

Personally, I don't agree with watering down the religions to the point of non-identity, but that was their trademark as the pagan Roman Empire (it eased incorporating new territories into the empire) and they carried it over into the Catholic Roman Empire. Of course, some religions were not very assimilating because the teachings were anti-assimilative (such as christianity), so they usurped it and forced it into assimilation, adopted it because it was popular, and forced everyone else into the same assimilation. That's what the "Christmas" tree ended up meaning - assimilation by the Borg.. err, I mean, Roman Empire.

Anyway, there are just as many christians who don't believe in use of the christmas tree as a symbol of Yeshua (Christ) as there are atheists who believe in its usage as simply a decoration. There's no hard and fast - this is a christian symbol. It's been assimilated.

Originally posted by undo


Personally, I don't agree with watering down the religions to the point of non-identity,

There's no hard and fast - this is a christian symbol. It's been assimilated.

So now you need to have a religion to have an identity. LOL! Whatever!


Guess what? I have seen many different colored candles in public places, since the african-americans assimilated the use of multicolored candles to celebrate quansa, every single candle must be taken down or the NAACP will sue.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by undo


Personally, I don't agree with watering down the religions to the point of non-identity,

There's no hard and fast - this is a christian symbol. It's been assimilated.

So now you need to have a religion to have an identity. LOL! Whatever!


Guess what? I have seen many different colored candles in public places, since the african-americans assimilated the use of multicolored candles to celebrate quansa, every single candle must be taken down or the NAACP will sue.

What that means is, i'm sure there were just as many pagans who weren't thrilled with the idea of being forced into assimilation as there were christians who were not thrilled with being forced into assimilation. Afterall, the tree was a pagan symbol. The holiday was a pagan holiday. They were both taken and attached to christian symbols. Any christian or pagan who didn't agree with that, was told "You will be assimilated." And they were dead serious about it, too.

Looking back on it, historically, it seems as if they didn't actually believe either thing - they were neither pagan nor christian. They were simply interested in maintaining their stranglehold of the planet by assimilating everything and everyone into the Roman melting pot. I'd say they were pretty successful at it, as well.

Anyone here familar with Frank Herbert's "DUNE" series? This was the same premise. The Bene Gesserit Sisterhood represented the assimilation of several religions into one, controllable faith, from which the Panoplia Propheticus could manipulate public opinion and control the masses.

Just like I said in my post, if folks want to go ahead and go the intolerance route an get offended by everything like a Christmas tree or other religious symbol and insist that trees, candles, and Jewish symbols be taken down, then don't complain when you can't celebrate anything.

Don't complain when you have to sterilize everything you say and you have to sterilize everything you wear or do.

Don't complain when you are in a jail cell because you had your own opinion.

If you support intolerance, then you are erecting a jail cell around yourself and around this planet.

Don't complain when all your traditions are stripped away and you are left being forced to conform, and you are no longer allowed to be an individual.

Welcome to the new world where you are micro-chipped like animals, watced on cameras everywhere you go, and generally not trusted. And if you aren't ignorant of things now, the drug companies are working on that with their parade of drugs to make you stupid, and keep you occupied with sex and erections.

The jail cell is being erected right now in the name of security, safety, political correctness, etc. And if you're not paying attention, you might not even notice the bars because all the reasons for "change" sure sound "valid" to those who are not really looking close enough.

Troy

[edit on 11-12-2006 by cybertroy]

The concept of America is to allow people the space to believe what they believe without forcing them into religious assimilation. However, it creates a double-edged sword and that's where the problems of interpretation arise and the courts come into play. Since the country is not supposed to be run on "mob rule," the question then becomes can just any little person change the decorative face of the entire country or the nearest airport?

The answer to that is, "yes." Is that a good thing? The answer to that is "yes," as well, because the voice of the people can sometimes be nothing more than herd mentality created by a well-placed system of manipulation. it's a system of checks and balances.

The problem arises when just any little person decides to exercise his/her political clout at the expense of the majority, simply because it's possible to do so or because of a small difference of viewpoint on a nearly meaningless issue (which, I believe, the christmas tree has become -- a nearly meaningless assimilation. it only has value to the individual and how that value is determined is exceedingly varied).

Maybe the rabbi should hear about what people think.

Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky

[email protected]

www.chabadofseattle.org...

SeaTac, Wash. -- All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday.
Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. He had threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn't add the menorah next to the trees.
Port staff believed adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures.
"They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch."

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Realtruth]

It seems to me that he didn't want the trees down, but only wanted a symbol of his religion put up.

So now is everyone going to flood this guy with hateful emails because he wanted his religion acknowledged?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It seems to me that he didn't want the trees down, but only wanted a symbol of his religion put up.

So now is everyone going to flood this guy with hateful emails because he wanted his religion acknowledged?

Why do people always assume the worst or over react? Hateful email??

No should ever send hateful emails. That is wrong, but expressing your opinion is the right of every american.

The rabbi did it, now he should hear what people think, if you make noise about a public place then you should hear what the public has to say.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It seems to me that he didn't want the trees down, but only wanted a symbol of his religion put up.

So now is everyone going to flood this guy with hateful emails because he wanted his religion acknowledged?

The point is that he wanted the tree to represent a religious symbol so that his religious symbol could be put up. But it isn't necessarily a religous symbol since it can be and has been interpreted to mean just about anything, including a secular symbol for the arrival of the new year/giving of gifts/going into debt (lol)/etc, a pagan symbol for the winter solstice celebration, an akkadian/semitic symbol for the passing of the old fertility god, an egyptian symbol, also for the passing of the old fertility god, a christian symbol for the birth of Christ, etc. If the menorah had that many interpretations and adherents, it would lose all religious significance.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by undo]

It's a tree.
You decorate it, and everyone goes "oooh, ahhh"

Sometimes people get pissed off...Because someone decorated a tree.
Those people are, simply put, petty worms, who are pissed at the world.

They spend their lives, idling at "mad", waiting for something to come along
that will shift them into the higher gear of "angry".

"If I can't have what I want, you can't have what YOU want"..
SO, we all get nothing. Nice huh?

What happens when you are asked to close your curtains, because your "offensive" decorated tree can be seen from the street? Will you do it?
Will you move your tree to the middle of your house next year?
So you can secretly enjoy it? Why bother at all, it's easier not to have a tree.
At the risk of offending the neighbors.

When someone sneezes, I say "bless you".
I have NEVER been mistaken for the Pope.
It's just a a nice gesture.

Like putting up, and decorating a tree.

Merry Christmas!

The rabbi is scum.

At any rate, I'm glad they didn't cave in and put up a menorah. This is a Christian country. If he wants eight foot menorahs, he can go to Israel where he belongs.

These were Christmas trees. Not Egyptmas trees, not Solstice trees.

SeaTac, Wash. -- All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

By saying Christmas tree it is then associated with Christ correct?

Once that happens, it's a religious symbol. If they didn't want them to be religious, then they would have called them Holiday Trees a la BH. Since they are religious symbols, then others should be respected, and used as well.

Originally posted by Realtruth
Why do people always assume the worst or over react? Hateful email??

No should ever send hateful emails. That is wrong, but expressing your opinion is the right of every american.

Now you sound like the fundamentalists who condemn abortion clinic bombings, but give out the address for "peaceful protest"

You've read the responses on this thread, and you know that people feal strongly about the situation. I'm sure you only want free expression but you have to expect when you dangle a worm in front of a fish, it'll jump.


[edit on 11-12-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by southern_cross3
The rabbi is scum.

At any rate, I'm glad they didn't cave in and put up a menorah. This is a Christian country. If he wants eight foot menorahs, he can go to Israel where he belongs.

lol No this is a secular country with assimilated pagan-christians symbols that have been secularized. It's a bit late to ask christmas trees to be religious symbols when so many people, of differing religous and non-religious beliefs, enjoy them and don't for a moment think of them as having anything to do with Christ. It can, of course, be a christian symbol for a christian, but generally speaking, it's totally secularized.

Raso,

Some people are named "Christ"ian or "Christ"opher. Some are named "Moses" or "Isaac", shall we demand they rename themselves? It's too late to change the christmas tree as a secular symbol, just as its too late to ask people who were named after famous biblical characters, to change their names. Their names have been assimilated into the secular domain.