Everyone in America needs to watch this

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
israel took the right of self-determination (you know, that thing the USA and the west is supposedly big on) away from the palestinian people

due mostly to interference from BRITAIN not the US, get your facts straight if you are going to point fingers.

The only thing the US did was supply weapons to Israel When the Soviet Union was arming Syria, Jordan, Egypt to the teeth.

Originally posted by semperfortis
And if I interjected some intellectual contribution, it would be the first.

Ah... unwitting, innocent humour, my favourite kind. Comment is superfluous.

Yet to actually comment on a film no more truthful than the Grinch Stole Christmas, would in essence lower me to the Jew hating level. That I will never do.

Merely defending the position you have taken makes you a Jew hater? Captain Bombast strikes again. If the film is untruthful, then identify the untruths, so we can debate them in open forum. If you cannot, then your argument is the merest wind, the finest, most pompous hot air. It's that simple.

You can call it what you want to. Down in your hearts you know what it is. Hate for the Jews. Historical, Nasty, Destructive Hate. The same the Nazi's had, just packaged differently attempting to be "Politically Correct".

And what of all the people in the film who are Jewish who criticise Israel? What of well-known Jewish commentators? What of the staff of Haaretz, which regularly publishes (as you would have seen had you bothered to click on the link I provided) articles critical of Israel's policy towards the Palestinians? Are we supposed to believe that all these people are Nazis?

Does Noam Chomsky hate Jews? Gideon Levy hates Jews? Gilad Atzmon hates Jews? Norman Finkelstein hates Jews?

All those people are Jewish. All of them have offered trenchant criticism of the Israeli occupation and of the kind of distorted bully-boy tactics of the pro-Israel lobby, tactics which you're rather clumsily aping. I asked you to find any trace of anti-Semitism in my posts, and you have found none. Therefore all you can do is repeat previous, unfounded bluster. Most of it is too content-free to be worth commenting on, but I loved this bit:

All the rest of the truly free thinking, non prejudiced intellectual community

You're strongly implying (without being quite so immodest as to explicitly say so) that you're a part of this community, aren't you? Is it a club? Do you have meetings? Of course, as you won't actually enter any argument into this discussion (which, let's remind ourselves, is supposed to be about the merits or otherwise of the linked film), it's hard to tell whether you'd manage to join such a community even if it existed. I'm looking hard for content in your post, but I'm coming up empty, I'm afraid. More pompous verbiage, entirely innocent of content, follows that gloriously faux-modest clause I just quoted:

... know where you stand, what you feel. So you really are fooling no one. Might as well come clean and free your soul admitting the hate that resides in you for all things Jewish.

Again with the accusations of hatred, and again, no actual attempt to show any evidence to support them. I've many close friends who are Jewish, some of whom go back to my University days. At one point when I was living in London, all my flatmates and friends in the area were Jewish. I have one close friend in New York,. Guess what? He's Jewish. If I really had a hatred for all things Jewish, I think one of them might have pointed it out to me by now, but you never know... perhaps they're just being polite and like me for my other qualities so much they're prepared to overlook my rabid, frothing anti-Semitism.

You keep saying the film is untruthful, yet you cannot point out any untruths. You keep saying I hate Jews, yet you cannot point out any anti-Semitic comments... and pointedly ignore the fact that so many people I quote on this topic (and I quote them because they're the real experts on it) are Jewish.

If you're going to post again, how about giving it a little more actual content? Or is that utterly beneath you, too? On the other hand, your pompous hot air is entertaining too, so, whatever.

Ignoring my comments or belittling them as not contributing to the debate, in no way diminishes the fervent hatred you espouse.

Yes, I do belong to a club and if you qualified, you would know about it.

Standing up for what is right and true in this world is a difficult thing to do. I have no expectations that everyone can do it. as evidenced by the comments on this thread, it is far too difficult for many. Far easier to simply roll over and absorb the propaganda shoved into the minds that allow, even crave it.

Israel is a shining example of all that is good and right in this world. Even the Christian Bible foretold of your hatred and the overwhelming negative position towards her. That many would be the ones to side with evil. Well, there you have it. All is coming true...

In reference to standing up for what is good and true in the world. There are people of action, those that believe strongly enough in what is right, they get up off their guffs and actually go out and make a difference. Like the Soldiers in Israel. Your denigration of them, being obviously uninformed and without experience, makes little impact. As the other propaganda being spouted from the mouths of the do nothing crowd.

It is all expected and as stated before, entertaining anyway..

And yes...

There are going to be Jews that stand on the wrong side, just as there are people here that fall for everything politically correct that comes down the pike. Why should they be any different? Are you saying the Jews are somehow different then you? Is that what you imply?

Again, true colors always show.

And the difference in those that DO, and those that talk...

As for the film, I thought I was clear in that the entire thing is propaganda???

You did read that didn't you? Or is it convenient to skip that part of my comments?

Semper

[edit on 12/10/2006 by semperfortis]

[edit on 12/10/2006 by semperfortis]

Rather than just posting hot air, how about backing all this windy piffle with some facts?

Originally posted by semperfortis
Ignoring my comments or belittling them as not contributing to the debate, in no way diminishes the fervent hatred you espouse.

You still cannot quote anything of mine that demonstrates this alleged hatred. Please, there are people on this boeard who have actually learned to debate. Learn from them.

Yes, I do belong to a club and if you qualified, you would know about it.

Do you get a badge? Is there a secret handshake? Aw, I'm feeling all excluded, now....

Anyway, I'll try not to derive any more humour from this, tempting (and easy) though it is...

Your entire post can be summed up in two assertions.

One:

Israel is a shining example of all that is good and right in this world.

You have no meterial facts at hand to back this up. I, on the other hand, have posted just one example that suggests that this might not be the case - a 45-to-1 death ratio suggests that the Israelis are in fact a "shining example" of evil and cruelty. Now you haven't attempted to counter this fact, you have merely said that the person who provided the figures and analysis (a Jew) is "standing on the wrong side". This is not debate, or if it is, it is on an extremely limited, childish level. I'm trying to help you here, but you just keep being Captain Bombast.

Two:

As for the film, I thought I was clear in that the entire thing is propaganda???

Oh, you keep repeating that, yes. But until you can point to even one factual inaccuracy or distortion contained in the film, you have no evidence to back up that charge. For someone who's supposed to be a policeman, you seem to have little understanding of the role of evidence in supporting an accusation of criminal behaviour.

I suppose it's possible that on those occasions that you have to appear in court as part of your job, that you are never cross-examined, and your word is taken as gospel by all concerned, but here at ATS people require evidence for these kinds of assertions. Again and again, despite repeated requests for such evidence, you wrap youself in your cape and try to disappear in a cloud of hot air. It won't work. Evidence, please!

Israel is a shining example of all that is good and right in this world.

HAHAHAHAHA, very funny. No evidence, and they are one of the worst country in the world because of their policies and their anti-semetism, I'll remind you that arabs are as semitic even more, than the jews. Because the majority of jews in Israël are form northern africa and west europe.

Even the Christian Bible foretold of your hatred and the overwhelming negative position towards her. That many would be the ones to side with evil. Well, there you have it. All is coming true...

So you're a religious nutjob who support Israël because the bible says so? How can we argue with you if you believe in the bible?

Originally posted by semperfortis
I actually prefer this video..
Israel's Soldiers

THIS is one that EVERYONE should watch and REMEMBER.
www.youtube.com...

I don't give a rats back-end anymore if the people who call themselves 'Palestinians' ever get a separate homeland. There are plenty of Muslim countries they can live in. They should go there. Leave the Jews alone on their tiny spit of land.

BTW .. just some 'Palestinian' trivia - Arafat wasn't a 'palestinian'. He was an Egyptian criminal; a murdering terrorist; and a homosexual pedophile rapist.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
they are one of the worst country in the world because of their policies and their anti-semetism,

No. Israel is one of the BEST countries in the world for muslims. Muslims, who are citizens of Israel, are treated MUCH better than their counterparts in many of the Muslim countries. They certainly have more rights in Israel than they do in strict Islamic countries.

How can we argue with you if you believe in the bible?

You aren't supposed to be 'argueing'. You are supposed to be 'discussing'.

Rather than just posting hot air, how about backing all this windy piffle with some facts?

Why is it that those who never produce facts, call for it in others? Is this some psychological need to address the inadequacies inherent within themselves?

Show me some facts, and not the obviously heavy edited version of someone else's truth.

You still cannot quote anything of mine that demonstrates this alleged hatred. Please, there are people on this boeard who have actually learned to debate. Learn from them.

Your Own Words Here.....

oppression and violence of the occupation ------ excuse ethnic cleansing, war crimes ------- Israeli state terror ----- death and destruction than the Palestinians ----- illegal occupation ----- evil and cruelty

Words of Hatred and they are yours...

I'm trying to help you here, but you just keep being Captain Bombast.

See now.. Who asked for your help? See. I have been to the Middle East, Twice in fact in the past 20 years. I am very familiar with the area, the people and the situation. Unlike you my friend, I can tell a duck when it walks and quacks like one.

But until you can point to even one factual inaccuracy or distortion contained in the film, you have no evidence to back up that charge

The evidence is contained in the Propaganda piece itself. No more is needed.

For someone who's supposed to be a policeman, you seem to have little understanding of the role of evidence in supporting an accusation of criminal behavior.

And what are your contributions to society my friend? While each and everyday I go out and fight?? Are you contributing by posting on ATS? Complaining while others make a difference?

Where is the "Criminal Behavior?" Do you even know what that is?

To the other poster...

How can we argue with you if you believe in the bible?

What do my personal beliefs have to do with anything?
Are you also against anything Christian?

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Why is it that those who never produce facts, call for it in others?

I have produced facts, links and references to back up my contentions. You retreat behind vague generalities.

Show me some facts, and not the obviously heavy edited version of someone else's truth.

What the linked film demonstrates rather effectively is that the mainstream US media gives only a heavily edited version of Israeli "truth". You have been asked several times to point to a specific instance in that film that shows a distortion or untruth. Still coming up empty, I see. However, when asked to show my "hate speech", all you can do is the following:

Your Own Words Here.....

oppression and violence of the occupation ------ excuse ethnic cleansing, war crimes ------- Israeli state terror ----- death and destruction than the Palestinians ----- illegal occupation ----- evil and cruelty

Words of Hatred and they are yours...

Let's just see if I can make a case for the first of these.

"oppression and violence of the occupation".
This is not hate speech. This is simply an accurate depiction of the situation. What the film makes quite clear is that the (illegal) occupation of the Palestinian territories is oppressive and violent. Homes are demolished because they are built without a permit... and permits are not given out. Therefore, at whim, Israel sends in armoured bulldozers to destroy homes that have been built, often, by their occupants. Is this not oppressive? Did you not see Israeli soldiers preventing people from reaching their homes, forcing them to walk miles out of their way to another checkpoint, at which there is a better than even chance they'll be sent elsewhere again?

I'm afraid I think that if I had to live under those conditions, I'd find oppressive a mild word. Likewise, it's violent. Israeli soldiers have shot at ambulances, innocent civilians. They're quite prepared to shoot to kill peace activists, and killed Tom Hurndall, a Briton who was trying to shield Palestinian children from IDF bullets. The IDF claimed that Palestinians fired on them first, however, a continuous video record of the incident showed that the IDF shot without any provoking fire. An Israeli armoured bulldozer killed Rachael Corrie, an American woman who was standing in its way in a peaceful attempt to stop another demolition of Palestinian homes. On a documentary a little while ago - shown in Britain, where the media is less controlled, there was testimony about a 10 year old girl shot in the head while she was sitting at her desk in school by an Israeli sniper, sitting in a watch tower a few hundred yards distant.

I notice that you haven't tried to deny that the Israelis kill far more Palestinians than vice versa.

But you would excuse all this, you would defend the uniformed bullies who intimidate and beat up unarmed Palestinians. There is ample video evidence of this in the film that is the subject of this thread.

Now I've just made a case that the illegal occupation carried out by Israel is oppressive and violent. I think this also supports the assertion that it is, similarly, evil and cruel. I could back up each of the other assertions that you have quoted as "hate speech". But, in a way, it doesn't matter - because none of it is hate speech in any case! Nowhere is there a blanket condemnation of an ethnic group. I have made specific accusations against the IDF, but even within that organisation there are courageous people who refuse to go on perpetrating the atrocities that successive Israeli governments condone. I applaud the IDF person who took part in the film.

Over the years, there have been many refusenik movements, of which the latest is Ometz Le'sarev.

I'm for the people who refuse to kill and oppress. To call this hate speech is a distortion. I find it interesting that you seem to support those people who continue to kill and oppress, and you see this as part of Israel being a "shining example".

As for having visited "the Middle East", well, it's a big place. Did you go to Gaza to see how they live there? If not, then you are no more qualified to pontificate about it than I... and I would argue less so, because your media sources are - as the film demonstrates, significantly biased. There are, as they say, two sides to every story, but you are denied one of them and you don't even notice or care.

And you don't seem to be able to point to any specific feature of the film that is inaccurate...

But until you can point to even one factual inaccuracy or distortion contained in the film, you have no evidence to back up that charge

The evidence is contained in the Propaganda piece itself. No more is needed.

That is simply evading the question. For, what, the third time? "No more is needed". Are judges that lenient with you if you're giving evidence in court? You know, I'm actually beginning to doubt that you really are a policeman. If you refused to give evidence in court with the same consistency you evince here, you'd never secure any convictions! Any self-respecting judge would simply say, "no case to answer".

And what are your contributions to society my friend? While each and everyday I go out and fight??

I'm a musician and teacher. I don't fight. I bring people pleasure and give instruction to kids who want to grow as musicians and people. I use such talents as I've got to increase the total fun in the world. Are you going to make fun of that? Go on, knock yourself out. I am just agog with anticipation.

Where is the "Criminal Behavior?" Do you even know what that is?

Given that I'm beginning to doubt your claims of being a policeman, I'm starting to think that I may have a better grasp of what criminal behaviour is, as I originally obtained a Law degree, many years ago now.

Criminal Behaviour... well, for example, Israel carries out targeted assassinations, which is illegal under the UN charter.

Governments shall prohibit by law all extra-legal, arbitrary and summary executions and shall ensure that any such executions are recognized as offences under their criminal laws, and are punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account the seriousness of such offences. Exceptional circumstances including a state of war or threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency may not be invoked as a justification of such executions.

The Israelis have been notably slow in prosecuting IDF soldiers for killing innocent civilians. The soldier who shot the 10-year-old girl has not, to my knowledge, been identified.

Israel also makes a policy of targeting political figures it finds inconvenient or accuses of terrorism. Adherence to the rule of law would require that such people be arrested, charged, and tried in a court of law. Instead, a helicopter gunship or F-16 (supplied by the US) is usually despatched to kill the person in question and any civilians unlucky enough to be in the vicinity.

It's criminal behaviour, all right... and as a policeman, I'm surprised that you support it.

I look forward to your next posting with renewed keenness. Perhaps this time you yourself might deign to come up with some facts to back up your protestations? Or is that simply beneath you?

HAHA

I like how one guy posts an anti-U.S./Israel vid and hes a hero.

Another posts footage of kids chanting kill, kill, kill and hes called a racist.

So, is it whoever shouts "racist" firsts wins?
Or is it whoever can get the most people to agree with them wins?

Personally, both mean something. One isnt more right than the other.
But Isreals occupation was based on winning a war they didnt start.
After that they can do whatever they want.

And screw the UN for trying to tell people what to do. Its just the hub for the NWO global government anyway.

Syria messes with Isreal let them deal with it. Iran messes with us let us deal with it. Anybody wants to help either side? Go for it. Screw the UN. They just try to sugar the coat the fact that everybody hates everybody else.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
israel took the right of self-determination (you know, that thing the USA and the west is supposedly big on) away from the palestinian people

due mostly to interference from BRITAIN not the US, get your facts straight if you are going to point fingers.

After a concerted campaign of terror from Zionist organisations, let's not forget. The history of The Stern Group shows many assassinations, hotel bombings, and the like. They even attempted to enter into an alliance with Nazi Germany, though their offer to fight against the British in return for help to allow Germany's Jews to emigrate to Palestine met no response.

And there were even one or two Jews in Britain who didn't support the Balfour Declaration, back in the day...

Here is the text of a letter by Lord Montague, the only Jewish member of the British cabinet at the time of the declaration. He makes some good points...

Zionism has always seemed to me to be a mischievous political creed, untenable by any patriotic citizen of the United Kingdom. If a Jewish Englishman sets his eyes on the Mount of Olives and longs for the day when he will shake British soil from his shoes and go back to agricultural pursuits in Palestine, he has always seemed to me to have acknowledged aims inconsistent with British citizenship and to have admitted that he is unfit for a share in public life in Great Britain, or to be treated as an Englishman. I have always understood that those who indulged in this creed were largely animated by the restrictions upon and refusal of liberty to Jews in Russia. But at the very time when these Jews have been acknowledged as Jewish Russians and given all liberties, it seems to be inconceivable that Zionism should be officially recognised by the British Government, and that Mr. Balfour should be authorized to say that Palestine was to be reconstituted as the "national home of the Jewish people". I do not know what this involves, but I assume that it means that Mahommedans and Christians are to make way for the Jews and that the Jews should be put in all positions of preference and should be peculiarly associated with Palestine in the same way that England is with the English or France with the French, that Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine. Perhaps also citizenship must be granted only as a result of a religious test....

I would say to Lord Rothschild that the Government will be prepared to do everything in their power to obtain for Jews in Palestine complete liberty of settlement and life on an equality with the inhabitants of that country who profess other religious beliefs. I would ask that the Government should go no further.

They certainly have more than "an equality" with the original inhabitants of that country now.

Rich,

Being one I can say that there is absolutly nothing wrong with being a musicain, and teacher. Great profession. Cherished in any civilization with an advanced society.

And, a law degree does go a long way in backing up your assertions that you can spot a crime when you see one.

As for the 'you're abviously not within the intellectual sphere of human society, because you disagree with me, and the marshall islands.' comment. Sorry, but I got news for you. About 90% of the human population disagrees with your "intellectual stance' toword Isreal. Go back and read the history, really read it. From multiple sources. You'll find that Isreals hands are very dirty, that they have done plenty to instigate discourse from the very begining, and that most of the human species opinion on the subject are very valid.

You do know that most of the palestinian terrorisim tactics were adopted from mirroring sucessful Isreali terrorist bombings. With IEDs.

The last 2/3rds of my post weren't directed at you rich.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by BASSPLYR]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
israel took the right of self-determination (you know, that thing the USA and the west is supposedly big on) away from the palestinian people

due mostly to interference from BRITAIN not the US, get your facts straight if you are going to point fingers.

The only thing the US did was supply weapons to Israel When the Soviet Union was arming Syria, Jordan, Egypt to the teeth.

Now we're talking about facts you might also want to include the UN resolutions:

Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.

Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.

Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.

Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.

Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.

Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.

Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.

Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.

Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.

Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.

Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.

Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.

Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.

Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.

Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.

Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.

Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem. Usual procedure

Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.

Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.

Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.

Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.

Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.

Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.

Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.

Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.

Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.

Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.

Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.

Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.

Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.

Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights

is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.

Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.

Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.

Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.

Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.Hey, I did see this before

Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon. History repeats

Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.

Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.

Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.

Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians. Of course, Palestinian are fairly treated

Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention. ''Deportation'' I've heard that before? It was related to WW II I believe

Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians. Continue the deportations!

Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
More!

Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations. Does Israel ever cooperate, this civilized country

Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

Jews Against the Occupation

Did you also notice how many Jews are actually against the legal occupation of Palestine?


[edit on 11-12-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR

The last 2/3rds of my post weren't directed at you rich.

Phew! I was thinking, I don't remember saying that... this is stuff I agree with... no, wait, it was the other guy!

You had me all confused there for a moment...

And MDV - once you start getting into the whole US vetoing UN resolutions thing... where would you stop? That stuff goes on forever.

Originally posted by rich23
And MDV - once you start getting into the whole US vetoing UN resolutions thing... where would you stop? That stuff goes on forever.

First of all, I would like to compliment you on your terrific posts, particularly because Fox News & co don't take the responsibility of educating the American people but rather prefer the publication of propaganda rubbish. As student I admire that.

Concerning the resolutions, I agree, nevertheless, this list does show how many UN resolutions have been violated by the sovereign state of Israel. Not to speak of Israel's recent behaviour on UN resolutions several weeks ago:

The UN General Assembly on Friday night overwhelmingly passed a resolution condemning the errant shelling of a Beit Hanun house which killed some 20 Palestinians.

Representatives of 156 countries voted in favor of the resolution, seven objected and six abstained.

Voting "no" were the United States, Israel, Australia, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau. Abstaining were Canada, Ivory Coast, Papua New Guinea, Tonga, Tuvalu and Vanuatu.

Europe's envoys cast their votes unanimously in favor of the resolution.

Israel's ambassador to the United Nations Dan Gillerman walked out of the session in protest, saying his words were falling on deaf ears and that he was better off holding a nearby press conference.

The United States ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, warned member states against approving the proposal, saying it would undermine the organization's relevance." Such a decision will only strengthen the widespread doubts regarding the UN, and lead many to conclude that the global organization cannot fulfill a role in the region," said Bolton.

Bolton called the resolution "one-sided" and said its adoption would only "increase tension and serve the interests of those hostile to Israel and that do not accept Israel's right to exist.

Bolton also slammed the UN Human Rights Council, based in Geneva, which called Wednesday for an inquiry into the Beit Hanun shelling.

Haaretz

www.abovetopsecret.com...





[edit on 11-12-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
THIS is one that EVERYONE should watch and REMEMBER.
www.youtube.com...

Well, there were reports at the time that these celebrations were nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. However, this was later shown to be untrue. The German TV programme Panorama gave an account of what happened that is even more interesting...

while the footage was indeed correctly dated, reporters may have partly staged one of the scenes. One woman later claimed she was offered a piece of pie for whooping it up in front of the camera. It is unclear whether it was explained to the woman what she was supposedly celebrating, nor is it clear whether the person who offered her the treat was a reporter. [2] The Panorama TV report which analyzed the full video footage noted (translated):

A closer look at the complete film material which was not broadcast shows that the street around the celebration is quiet. Only in front of the camera there are a few excited children. The woman, who is remembered for her cheering, shortly afterwards moves along quietly. A man in a white T-shirt is conspicuous. He incites the children, and keeps fetching new people. The woman who just left the picture says today that she was offered cake if she celebrates on camera, and that she was appalled when she saw the pictures on television.

Source

I'm sure there were people celebrating the attacks though. There are a lot of stupid people in the world, and the US has done quite a job - even before the "war on terror" - of making itself unpopular in the Arab world. Sensible people don't do that kind of thing, and Arafat tried to suppress reports that it had happened, and symbolically donated blood for the victims. Hardly a practical measure, but a gesture nonetheless.

But since you bring it up, how about the dancing Israelis?

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)

The article is a very thorough analysis of all available press and police reports relating to this matter, and makes interesting reading.

BTW .. just some 'Palestinian' trivia - Arafat wasn't a 'palestinian'. He was an Egyptian criminal; a murdering terrorist; and a homosexual pedophile rapist.

I don't really have any particular brief for Arafat, but I think such sweeping accusations could use some verification, particularly the last one. And, FYI, a homosexual child abuser is, I believe, called a "pederast": paedophilia is, I think, applied to old men/pre-pubescent girls. Just a minor detail of nomenclature.

Originally posted by Mdv2
First of all, I would like to compliment you on your terrific posts, particularly because Fox News & co don't take the responsibility of educating the American people but rather prefer the publication of propaganda rubbish. As student I admire that.

I am grateful for your compliments and admiration... however, I think you may be under a slight misapprehension. I'm British, although this certainly doesn't mean that I haven't been subjected to propaganda. It's just rather more subtle here than in the US. Nonetheless, it is detectable, and these days I'm quite alert to it.

But the Israeli lobby is less powerful here, and I think there is a stridency about it that sits ill with the British character. I started a thread about Gilad Atzmon's problems with the Israel lobby which you might find interesting, although replies have been few, probably because it didn't have the word "islamofascist" in, warn of an imminent catastrophe, or claim proof of alien contact.

Atzmon, a Jewish writer (and rather good tenor player) wanted to put on a concert by his alter ego, Artie Fishel (and the Promised Band). Artie is a lovely guy but an arch-Zionist, and Atzmon found him an interesting way to examine some of the internal contradictions inherent in the occupation issue. However, when the pro-Israeli lobby found out about the planned performance, the venue received abusive and outright threatening 'phone calls. Media response in the UK, however, was overwhelmingly positive: we seem to love bright people who can bring humour to the understanding of difficult and painful situations.

The article makes interesting reading. Thanks also for your scholarly contributions to the thread. They're kind of an object lesson for some of the respondents on this thread, but I suspect they will be ignored in favour of more hot air.

I can fully understand the reasons behind the desire to retaliate with violence by the Palestinians against Israel given the curfews and dire living conditions they are forced to live under, but there could be a more cunning and non-violent way to make use of media presence to highlight their plight and Israeli hypocracy...

If, even for one day, every Palestinian were to adopt the wearing of a yellow crescent on their clothing with the word "Palestinian" written in Hebrew, perhaps it would then shame and remind their oppressors, and the wider world, of not-too-distant history, when Jews had to wear a yellow star pinned to their clothing and were forced to live in ghettos under the most oppresive conditions.

Like birds of a feather, the Jew haters gather all in one place..

Gives one a nice cozy feeling..

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Like birds of a feather, the Jew haters gather all in one place..

Gives one a nice cozy feeling..

< sound fx: crickets chirping>

< sound fx: the sound of someone not feeding the troll...>



[edit on 11-12-2006 by rich23]