Is the West in denial about Islam?

There is widespread denial, across the political spectrum, of Islam’s threat to our civilization. The far left has become so consumed by its hatred of our culture that it has abandoned its traditional hostility towards religion in the face of the revival of one of the most barbaric and oppressive religious ideologies in history. Having assumed a policy of anti-anti-Islam, the left has made what Horowitz calls an Unholy Alliance with our enemy, defending it at every opportunity. The anti-rational nihilistic post-modern left is a heavy weight on the whole left side of the spectrum, drowning out any sane voice of moderation. Such fashionable academic nonsense has already corrupted popular politics.

Source: libertyandculture.blogspot.com...

I found this interesting as I see alot of this right here on ATS, of course ATS is also heavily liberal. The article goes on to state that this problem isnt justy confined to the left side of the political spectrum but also on the right. Britain seems to be in major denial about this intolerant religion.

Here are my questions:

How can we expect to fight this ideology in the world when so many amongst us are apologists for islam?

Do we really think we can maintain a free society under a muslim majority which despises women and non-muslims?

Will this be the death of the tolerant western world?

Is the West in denial?

What do you think?






[edit on 29-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
How can we expect to fight this ideology in the world when so many amongst us are apologists for islam?

Do we really think we can maintain a free society under a muslim majority which despises women and non-muslims?

Between my life experiences, those around me, and from what I see beyond the media's obssession with death and destruction, your arguments are non-sensical.

Sure there are extremists, but they do not come anywhere close to representing the majority. The media likes to feature conflict, so that is all you will find.

Turkey is 99% Muslim, they have a secular government, a blend of East/West, lots of "Westerners" visit every year, even the Pope is there now. And that is only one country which shatters your entire argument and that of xenophobic bloggers.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Sure there are extremists, but they do not come anywhere close to representing the majority.

I've noticed that particularly Americans tend to believe that any Muslim should be treated and categorized as terrorists.

Xphiles take the privilege of visiting an Islamic country and educate yourself. You will experience how little we all differ - whether you are a Christian or Muslim.

Several times a year I visit Egypt and I can assure you religion does not play a role at all. I am Christian, most Egyptians are Muslims, but when I am in Egypt, we talk about football, we laugh about jokes and respect each other's values and religion.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Britain seems to be in major denial about this intolerant religion.

Are you suggesting that all 1.5 million British Muslims are intolerant, despise women and non-Muslims? Please stop acting like a clown and educate yourself because you have a very distorted view on the situation. Don't tell me you really think Saudi-Arabia represents the entire Muslim community around the world.





[edit on 29-11-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I found this interesting as I see alot of this right here on ATS, of course ATS is also heavily liberal. The article goes on to state that this problem isnt justy confined to the left side of the political spectrum but also on the right. Britain seems to be in major denial about this intolerant religion.

The author of this blog is quoting David Horowitz. Let's see who this man is

David Horowitz
David Joel Horowitz (born January 10, 1939) is an American conservative writer and activist. A prominent supporter of Marxism and a member of the New Left in the 1960s, Horowitz later rejected Leftism and now identifies with the right wing of the political spectrum. He is a founder of the David Horowitz Freedom Center (formerly the Center for the Study of Popular Culture), a writer for the conservative magazine NewsMax, and the editor of the popular conservative website FrontPageMag.com. He founded the activist group [Students for Academic Freedom and is affiliated with Campus Watch, and frequently appears on the Fox News Channel as an analyst .

and...

Horowitz appears to have openly admitted he committed treason against the United States. Ramparts, a magazine he was editor of, had acquired classified intelligence information from a former NSA operative and had published it, eventhough one of their own staffers, who had formerly served in Army Intelligence, had judged the information to be truthful, and refused to work on the story, and Horowitz knew this prior to the publication of the Ramparts story. Horowitz also sought the advice of a prominent Constitutional scholar before publishing it, who had explained to him the best methods of avoiding prosecution for this act of treason.

Interesting, no?

How can we expect to fight this ideology in the world when so many amongst us are apologists for islam?

Can you be more specific. First you talk about religion and then about ideology. Which is it? And what ideology are we in conflict with? I would say the one regarding radical militant Islam.
And please define the term apologist of Islam.

Do we really think we can maintain a free society under a muslim majority which despises women and non-muslims?

If Muslims despise women and non-muslims they sure have lots of sex with them. Looks like selective set of values to me.

Will this be the death of the tolerant western world?

I wouldn't call it a tolerant western world. It's more like semi-tolerant.
Muslims are not the death of a tolerant world. Intolerance is.

Is the West in denial?

About what?
If you're talking about Islam then the answer is no. The "West" is just scared and ignorant.



[edit on 29-11-2006 by yanchek]

in a muslim ruled world all other religions would be ruled void and practising members of that religon must likely killed

Heres another question.

Is the West in denial about it's own fanatics, who are desperately looking for excuses to commit genocide?

David Horowitz is an absolute jerk. It is people like him that are spreading fear, hate and prejudice against Muslims. I have known many Muslims, have traveled to the M.E. and I can tell you that the vast majority of Muslims are very good people who follow the traditional Muslim ways of not killing anyone, respecting women (yes they do!) and being kind to their enemies. Their religion dictates that there be no violence, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. and that they should give aid and hospitality to even thier enemies. It is a peaceful religion. The ones sthat are the fundies are a minority and I think their actions are motivated more by economics and politics than religion.

I once spent several days at a hot springs, where I met 3 delightful young Moslem men from Morocco who lived in the U.S. For those 3 days, they cooked wonderful Moroccan food for me, fed me, gave me back rubs and in general tsreated me like a queen. I have rarely felt so respected by men. All this, with great conversation too, and yet they never once tried to institute anything sexual, they were just friendly and respectful. I have known many other Moslems jusst as wonderful.

IMO, America's Christian fundies are scarier to me than any Moslem because they are here in this country and trying to take over our govt., discriminate against sthose who aren't Christian and can be very violent at abortion clinics, even killing doctors who perform abortions.

I think the biggest problem with this whole situation is that we see extremists comming out of the muslim world, yet we see no strong counter balance. I believe that on a more local level there are counter balances in the muslim world but the press and world doesn't see any large civil movment or counterbalance preaching peace and non-extremist methods for achieving their goals.

Like I said it's not that those people that counterbalance don't exist, it's just that their not as organized or as loud. I think eventually though these types of organisations will reveil themselves and things will simmer down a bit. and honestly we are starting to see these things appear in the free media that no exists in Iraq. It will take time for them to take hold but i fear that we will pull out and that free media will cease to exhist.

If by "in denial" you mean that the West is not taking some form of threat from the Muslim world seriously enough I would strongly disagree.

The current crusade against Muslims, (whether extremist, fundamentalist or not), in parts of the press is probably the most savage witch hunt since... well, since we stopped hunting witches really.

I find it very hard to understand how anybody could be "in denial" unless you mean that we are denying the very obvious fact that the vast majority of muslims pose no physical threat to the West whatsoever.

Perhaps the responses are just what you were referring to. Because even the nicest of Muslims believe what their scripture states... And that is in the end they will die fighting in a global battle against the infidels... So if their major religious leaders decided that the time was proper to declare Jihad, then all those nice loving muslims would slit your throat in the name of their God.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Here are my questions:

How can we expect to fight this ideology in the world when so many amongst us are apologists for islam?

Do we really think we can maintain a free society under a muslim majority which despises women and non-muslims?

Will this be the death of the tolerant western world?

Is the West in denial?

What do you think?

It is my understanding that the poor treatment of women is not really Muslim. Rather sexual inequality in Muslim countries is a product of culture.

Same goes for religous intolerance.

Originally posted by MasterJedi
Perhaps the responses are just what you were referring to. Because even the nicest of Muslims believe what their scripture states... And that is in the end they will die fighting in a global battle against the infidels... So if their major religious leaders decided that the time was proper to declare Jihad, then all those nice loving muslims would slit your throat in the name of their God.

What is up with all those Star Wars kids. It seems impossible for some to understand that the average Muslim does not differ from an average Westerner at all. Do you really think that most Christians would pick up their weapons if the Pope would call for a crusade? I don't, and you shouldn't watch so many cartoons.

Originally posted by Mdv2
What is up with all those Star Wars kids.

Media, Media and Media.

Thats whats up. The 4th branch of the government.

I really think it is the other way around.. Most western media, and governments, are somewhat friendly to the muslim world - I've never seen anything the other way around. And I really believe the 'somewhat friendly' is due to their ignorance..

For instance - A recent survey in Egypt stated that the country's biggest enemy is Isreal, followed by Denmark. Heeellllooo???? Big, ugly, evil, world-dominating Denmark...

And just because of a few pictures from Jyllands Posten, that a few imams blew up and made into a holy crusade..

I know who I think are ignorants.

By now you would think that it would be obvious as the nose on ones face what has been transpiring the past several years. This is an all out war and psyops operation to place all muslims in a negative light and to vilify them. Why? I think its plain to see...the numbers. One day it will be that outfits like AIPAC and PNAC, CAMERA,MEMRI will all be negated. The muslims will have their own version of AIPAC and its going to be competition for them. If they are to vilify and have the majority of these organizations branded as terrorist entities, perhaps with the right prejudices instilled into people cause many to emigrate back to their countries, this may stem the competitive edge for a little while. Just look at the sources of all these negative articles! Amir Tehiri, Campus Watch, PNAC, and all the rest of these right wing pro-israeli, pro-zionist organizations. They are trying to instill fear in the eyes of the only supporters in their corner, the American Jewish public and The Evangalist Christians. Take note of these sensational articles and look at the sources. They usually all merge from one source or publication or organization. I posted an article that was written in the UK Guardian that spoke of just such a conspiracy.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Which is exactly what it is. This is pre-planned and has been well thought out. 9-11 was a pretext.

Is it a coincidence all these new found terrorist specialists and islamic analysts all happen to be from the right wing pro-Israel sector? It should be obvious to us all by now that Israel should never be considered as being effective or even specialists on anything Islamic or Arab related. Americans need to start thinking for ourselves and not let people lead you by the nose.

Here is Campus Watch "About Us" statement

Mission Statement
Campus Watch, a project of the Middle East Forum, reviews and critiques Middle East studies in North America, with an aim to improving them. The project mainly addresses five problems: analytical failures, the mixing of politics with scholarship, intolerance of alternative views, apologetics, and the abuse of power over students. Campus Watch fully respects the freedom of speech of those it debates while insisting on its own freedom to comment on their words and deeds.

Apologetics: Middle East studies tend to evade, ignore, or apologize for topics that do not fit their politicized agenda:

Internal repression in Libya, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and the Palestinian Authority.
Palestinian Authority support for suicide bombing against Israeli civilians.
The long-term goals of Islamist movements.
The suffering caused by insurgencies in Algeria and Turkey.
The Syrian occupation of Lebanon.
The anti-American, anti-Christian, and anti-Semitic incitement that pervades state-run media through most of the region

Source


Whats missing from this organization that "Monitors Middle East Studies on Campus" hmmm seems they are only concerened with Islamic and Arab issues.

I'm not a kid, but thats not what this is about...


I would say, unfortunately so, that more Christians than you think would take up arms for their beliefs... As I've seem several refer to the current situation as a new Crusade.

I am not personally against Muslims or for Christians for what its worth, but it is indeed their belief, regardless of whether you think they would act on it.

...based on the responses to your post, I'd say you got your answer. The Reader's Digest version: Yes, Western culture is in BIG trouble!

Some would like to claim that this is some giant psyop against Muslims. I would advise those who do to get your heads out of the sand and start learning what is being said about you and your culture by these "moderate" Muslims. Madrassas are the fastest growing institution in Islam and Wahabism is being adopted all over the globe. I am no xenophobe, I am a realist and I can see what is happening as plain as the nose on my face.

Just as Iran is preparing for the 12th Imam, Western culture had better be prepared for what that means - the end of anything non-Muslim! Sharia law is spreading throughout Europe (contrary to written laws) and you had better believe that there are those who would like nothing more than to bring it to a community near you. Be prepared, not ignorant.

Originally posted by kozmo
Madrassas are the fastest growing institution in Islam and Wahabism is being adopted all over the globe. I am no xenophobe, I am a realist and I can see what is happening as plain as the nose on my face.

Madrassas are the fastest growing institution? I would surely hope so. Madressa in arabic means school. They have been around for centuries just like any Christian school or University. I thought you said people should take their head out of the sand. Here it is a school is a threat to us?

Wahhabis shouldn't be a threat to you, as many modern Muslims enjoy too many modern-day technology accomplishments to want to give all that up to satisfy the needs of Wahhabists. They seem to be like the Amish is to the Christian world. No TV, Radio, Photos or art, or wearing of charms (Arabs are very superstitiious). I think you are over exaggerating. Many arabs enjoy using computers, or watching TV and especially listening to music to want to give that up. Maybe countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia where they would want to keep the masses dumbed down, but its not going to take anywhere else.

Islam is a dangerous, and fliped up religion. They treat their women like crap, and become terrorists. Honestly I don’t think america should be so quick to accept this type of religion. If you look at other parts of the world, you will see that the islamic religion is tearing parts of the world in half.

These idiots honestly fight and kill each other becasue the 2 groups think that the other is not practicing the values of islam in the right way. I say that all the peaceful muslims unite and kill all the extreamists muslims and make the world a better place.

I don’t like war...but the more and more I think about how the fact america can’t get out of iraq because half of the country is crazy terrorists (or just hate america for being there) I get more and more pissed. I’m also pissed that the entire middle east region is just A BACKWARDS THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

I swear these people are not fully evolved yet...they are so backwards in their belifs about society and women, that it’s really like they are living 300 years behind modern times.

I say that radical islam must be eliminated at all costs. IF that means nukeing entire countries, and turning the middle east into a wasteland, then that’s what we gotta do. Cause these idiots don’t’ understand crap execpt violence. Why do you think saddam was such a good leader? Beacuse he was violent to no end.

America needs to unite the muslims that are not exreamists, and genocide all the areas of islam that are extreamists. Radical islam is one of the biggest threats to peaceful existence that the world has faced. If you look at it rationally...those people have been fighting with each other for centuries, why would they ever stop?

A lot of the leaders of those countries, don’t like western values...and stupid america isn’t making it better for theyself. Now in addition to the peaceful muslims, they will hate americans...and their ranks will grow larger in number. All areas of the world need to stand up before it’s to late, and help put a stop to the growing muslim problem.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
[...]America needs to unite the muslims that are not exreamists, and genocide all the areas of islam that are extreamists.[...]

:shk:

How is that not radical?