The Aliens are Demons/Angels Debate.

I think it's time to have a debate which, up until now, has been sweeping through the Aliens and UFO's forum. That is the argument that alien races are really demons or angels from the spiritual realm.

Graham Hancock, in his new book Supernatural actually proposes this, so I think it is a timely topic.

from Supernatural by Graham Hancock publisher Doubleday Canada

page 312

Could 'aliens' and 'spirits' be the same thing - or the same class of thing? And if so, what might this mean for our understanding of the human condition and the nature of reality? Could the realm from which UFO's appear - and then seem to disappear back into again 'between one blink of the eye and the next' - be the spirit world, as John Mack came increasingly to believe? More intriguingly, what are the chances of this being the same spirit world, with its well-charted supernatural geography and inhabitants, that shamans have entered and negotiated with by means of hallucinatory out-of-body journeys since time immemorial?

The idea seems absurd by the tenets of Western science, which holds all spirit worlds to be illusory of the contents of our own minds. Still, I couldn't help being intrigued by the close parallels I'd found between the piercings and inexplicable surgical procedures supposedly carried out on shamans by spirits, and the same sorts of procedures experienced by UFO abductees at the hands of aliens. I began to re-examine ethnographic studies of shamanism side by side with casebooks of UFO abductee reports to see if there were other such similarities. Gradually I became fascinated and immersed - for there seemed not just to be similarities here but a whole network of closely interwoven and interdependent connections so intricate and extensive that they could not possibly have arisen by chance.

What do I believe? I think all religions sprang from visions experienced by early Homo Sapiens during the Stone Age when they confined themselves into deep dark silent caves. In these visions, creatures unlike humans would interact with those who were experiencing the visions. In other words, the aliens have been 'changed' into angels and demons to fit the mold of religions and not the other way around.

What do you believe?

Edit to include external quote

[edit on 20/11/06 by masqua]

Yeah, masqua, that about sums up my feelings on the subject as well. To add to it, people will see what they want to see, and this does not only aply to religons or aliens, but also to the more mundane things in life as well.

People demonize homosexuals, the president of the united states, alcoholic beverages, fast cars, violence in the media, and rap music. Does this mean that any of these things are evil? Of course not, it is merely the perceptions of these things in the context of a persons prejudices and internal cultural programing that makes them what they are to any individual person.

I think the beings that are seen that we still have no concrete explaination of are often mistaken for the demons of the past, and I think that the definition of demons as giving by others, in that they are able to assume the shapes best used to suit their purposes, best describes my point that we see what we want to see, and this is why their form has changed through the ages.

Well, this could get long quick and I have to run out for a bit so I'll keep it as short as possible.

It's a question as to terms and the nature of reality as we know it. I think if youre here reading any posts, then it's a good chance you've questioned the nature yourself.

I dont think there's any question that we're not dealing with typical reality when it comes to UFOs/aliens. And after all these years, there is still NO tangible undeniable proof of the existance of such things. Try as people might, there just isnt any, depite the best intentions of people looking for answers.

It could very well be that there is no tangible proof because the enigma itself can choose whether or not to be physically real. From reports throughout the history of the subject, it's clear that events can occur that effect environment, however, does this constitute physical reality.

I'd say no, at least not all the time. These beings seem to be able to enter and exit our reality at will, or possibly at our will.

Masqua brings up a good point, in that sensory depravation brings on visions we may consider hallucinations. If you percieve a hallucinations, is it less "real" because it's not physical reality? Why should it be that percieved "hallucinations" are "in your head" only? Could it be that some stimuli, or the lack thereof alter perception to the point of being able to see past our senses? Because we cannot measure it with our senses which again are feeble at best in the big picture...it's not "real".

Well, lets look at it this way, if you existed in a perpetual isolation tank your entire life...it'd be real. You wouldnt know any different. Would you? Your "reality" would be nothing like what you know now, but it'd be reality to you.

Perhaps we're in the same position as far as our "tank" of perception. These beings seem to exist on the very edge of perception, perhaps only because for some reason we'll never know, we cant percieve them all the time. Only when they want us to be able to or when they wish to interact.

Now, as far as "demonic" connections, yes, there's more then a few lines that connect. But I would urge people not to cling to romanticized ideals of "demons" with little red suits and pitchforks, or horned beasts of the movies. Perhaps demon is the wrong term, but unfortunately it's all we have for descriptive purposes. There's that perception thing again. A negative spiritual based entity. Based on many accounts of some sort of contact with these beings, I'd say a large part point to a negative influence in the encounter, with profoundly negative aspects continuing after. And I'm not talking about the sheer fear factor.

I'll have to continue this later....gotta run.

Just wrote this just now and hope people start to wake up, they seem to be coming closer to our realm - funny how they turn up in their masses just when Isreal gets it's foot in the ground after 2000 years. Roswell and the Six day war. Guess it was a last resort to show them selves as they know humans will stand up to Hitler types through out history. We demolerised them now they want to demolerise our faith through God by saying Aliens exist not God.

Quote from my post Before:
All this Alien experiences and Human channelling of this other dimension where Greys and Reptiles live reminds me of the Satanic realm where the fallen Angels, demons exists. Problem is people are doing the devils work by denying that its Biblical History related as Ike seems to do by confusing Bible readers into thinking Angels= Aliens when Aliens and Greys = Angels and Demons.
Its all part of the deception, if these Angels are trying to create a polluted bloodline of humans like GENESIS 6 and after then to deny the evidence people who don't know much about mans past through the Bible think these Aliens are from another Galaxy. But now peoples evidence show they are from our inner reality realm. This is exactly what the Bible has been saying all along. There is different Angel types and Demon types due to Human soul and Angel mixing.

All this Stem cell stuff and cloning is the key these Angels need to start a new breed on earth and maybe help build an Army to fight God's Angels and the Human race. It won't work but they won't know that and the Bible is coded off from them and the Devil can not read the symbolism for their meanings and even so doubt if the writing is legible to him and the Angels.

There are different types of life, some I believe are Human shape shifters from fallen Angels-not reptiles but could have animal soul make up.
Humans without human souls but are Walk-ins, cross breeds types like the Nephelin,
Demon’s-like Greys lack humane feelings- Nordics could be the nicer types not sure or they don't exist/could be angelic of another pecking order.
But all in all they are not from millions of light years away but here trying to find a way to be accepted by God and the only way is through a Human should transfer or union but even that won't work and like the Greys who try to make cross breeds its the same idea. If they have been trying to do it for thousands of years they would have been extinct by now. Problem is they don't die and God has a place called hell to keep them shut forever when the time comes.

I think people need to wake up; its deception upon deception and that is what the Devil wants and he will take half the world with him to add insult to injury, he may as well have some fun when he is going to be doomed. So try and open the Bible once more it has more action than LOTR Trilogy.

Also to add, a goldfish and Dolphin could be in seperate tanks next to each other and the Goldfish has the ability to get through via a gap into the Dolphin tank. Does not mean the Dolphin is dumb if it can not get into the goldfish tank just means they can and we can not.


[edit on 20-11-2006 by The time lord]

Thought-provocing stuff. I think perhaps aliens are looking over us, we are to them what animals are to us.

Does anyone else ever get the intuitive feeling that perhaps they have lived before as the same person and in the same life, etc? Is time going around in circles? are these aliens from a distant future? - distorting our time?

Imagine if the governments of the world discovered the UFO's were from our future. Would this be more shocking than people from another planet? There's a question for you.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by SwingingMonkey]

Originally posted by SwingingMonkey
Thought-provocing stuff. I think perhaps aliens are looking over us, we are to them what animals are to us.

Does anyone else ever get the intuitive feeling that perhaps they have lived before as the same person and in the same life, etc? Is time going around in circles? are these aliens from a distant future? - distorting our time?

Imagine if the governments of the world discovered the UFO's were from our future. Would this be more shocking than people from another planet? There's a question for you.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by SwingingMonkey]

Also to add, a goldfish and Dolphin could be in seperate tanks next to each other and the Goldfish has the ability to get through via a gap into the Dolphin tank. Does not mean the Dolphin is dumb if it can not get into the goldfish tank just means they can and we can not.

These beings are advanced but are mentally inhuman, they are illusionists that is there Job and have done so since dawn of time. We have also an advantage, if they wanted to they could have obducted every human being when the number was low as 100 or a million but they could not. Still have not and can not.
God gets in their way and if you see how the Bible stories have come about its been about a war to keep Humans pure from Angelic evil, call it Alien invasion if you will....

So try and open the Bible once more it has more action than LOTR Trilogy.

And more sex than a Penthouse Letter. Read 'Song of Songs', thats one book of the bible not discussed much in any church I have ever been to.

Back on topic.. These things were seen long before the first books of the bible were written, So my theory is that they influenced Moses and not the other way around. Looking at Mesopotamian sources, you can see that sightings of 'demons' predate Yaweh by at LEAST a thousand years.

I am just going to be honest here. I have heard this argument abou UFOs having spiritual entities in them. I don't buy it.

What purpose would a spiritual entity have in maneuvering a physical craft around? Whether it be angel or demon,I don't see its necessity in having a physical craft.How would an ethereal beng even be able to pilot a physical craft?

No,I think that UFOs are piloted by very physical bodies. I find the extraterrestrial argument much more convincing than the angel/demon theory that has been floating around for quite some time.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I suppose my train of thought is more in line with the Time Lords on this issue. For me there is little doubt about the connection between aliens and demons, but with a few twists.

I believe we are dealing with what the bible would term "Creators". Creators with a very advanced knowledge of technology. You may call them demons or aliens or what ever you wish. They have demostraited an advanced ability, and knowledge of humanity, but at the same time showed an extreme disrespect as well.

What is so confusing is that there are more than one entity involved. Orbs, disks, greys, reptillians, nordics, lepricons, lockness monster, big foot, the more the better to cause chaos, and the continuation of the illusion, the game. You are looking at what might be termed "mutiple causation". Each having its own agenda and ways to effect it. It would be easy to be tricked into the wrong conclusion about there agenda. For anyone who has studied the Illuminati you will see that in reality it is just a game of monopoly on a global level, and the puppet masters, are the "hidden forces", the creators.

Forces that are naturally pitted against each other will unite if their game is threatened. If you were to out law major league baseball tomorrow, I guarentee all the teams would unite to overthrow the new law. So we have these hidden forces who do the very same thing.

The next logical question might be, what if anything should or could be done. Do we simply resign ourselves to the reality that we are creations that are owned and done with as the creators wish, or do we have a God given right to self determination.

Some of you talk as if it is a "fact" that UFOs are piloted by demons. What evidence is there of this? None,to my knowledge. It's just a bunch of speculation.

by HankMcCoy

...they are able to assume the shapes best used to suit their purposes, best describes my point that we see what we want to see, and this is why their form has changed through the ages.

Excellent point...it is interesting, at first glance and off the top of my head, that 'apperitions' which were documented during the past 1500 years have all been assigned to either the Spawn of Satan or the Angels of a Christian/Jewish/Muslim God.

There are many other religions in the world which speak of demons as well. Buddhism has its fair share, for instance, but they are different in how they 'became' demons. There is the story of Asura, who, because he did Shiva a favour, asked if he could be made invulnerable to any other Gods and Goddesses. Shiva granted the request and Asura then went on to wreak havoc on Earth with an assembled army of demons. Eventually, Asura was put down by Parvadi as the blue Kali.

So, you can see interaction with spiritual beings throughout our recent history.

My intent is to show the earliest roots of religion, because that is where I believe the answers will be when we try to unravel the mystery of aliens.

by SpeakerofTruth

What purpose would a spiritual entity have in maneuvering a physical craft around? Whether it be angel or demon,I don't see its necessity in having a physical craft.How would an ethereal beng even be able to pilot a physical craft?

Good point. What are they doing flying around in airborne vehicles?

Perhaps it's because we are now accustomed to the idea of aircraft? If something is seen in the air, we suppose they must be vehicles, because, in our modern society, that's what makes sense. Has there ever been any undeniable proof of such vehicles? Roswell crash? Bits and pieces of wreckage? Actual proof? Nope...none at all...and if there
is, it has been carefully hidden by the governments.

But, let me ask you this...if in all the time that humans have been walking around, lifting rocks and exploring nooks and crannies on this planet, why is Roswell the only really talked about incident? In the hundreds and thousands of years we've been here, why haven't we come across other clues?

by jritzman

I dont think there's any question that we're not dealing with typical reality when it comes to UFOs/aliens. And after all these years, there is still NO tangible undeniable proof of the existance of such things. Try as people might, there just isnt any, depite the best intentions of people looking for answers.

exactly...

Originally posted by masqua
[
Good point. What are they doing flying around in airborne vehicles?

Perhaps it's because we are now accustomed to the idea of aircraft? If something is seen in the air, we suppose they must be vehicles, because, in our modern society, that's what makes sense. Has there ever been any undeniable proof of such vehicles? Roswell crash? Bits and pieces of wreckage? Actual proof? Nope...none at all...and if there
is, it has been carefully hidden by the governments.

But, let me ask you this...if in all the time that humans have been walking around, lifting rocks and exploring nooks and crannies on this planet, why is Roswell the only really talked about incident? In the hundreds and thousands of years we've been here, why haven't we come across other clues?

Well what about this one?

Dropas

[/THE CHINESE ROSWELL

Date & Location: 10,000 BC Byan-Kara-Ula mountains China

Vallee Classification:CR3-333

Tangibile Evidence: Multi-Witness, Physical Evidence (The skeletons, and the discs), Local legend of a tribe called the dropas who "fell from the sky", Living tribe found matching the Dropas description and history.

Tangibilty index: 3.20 (64%)

It's been called "The Chinese Roswell". A story of a crashed spacecraft over 12,000 years ago in a remote mountain area of China. An expedition led by archeologist Chi Pu-Tei found a number of strange skeletons, entombed. The skeletons had abnormally large heads, and proportionally small frail frames for bodies. Also found were 716 stone discs with a spiral groove in each starting at the rim and leading to a hole in the center.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

In the hundreds and thousands of years we've been here, why haven't we come across other clues?

Just a quick hijacking..

There IS another crash that happened long before Roswell, I will simply give you the begining info and let you come to your own conclusions.

The Texas Roswell, Aurora 1897

I am not certain, but I also seem to remember an account in the Bible of something like a UFO falling into the Nile, I will have to research this though, so don't hold me to it.

Many different religons and societies would try to explain what they saw in terms of what they knew. Apollo used to charge his chariot across the sky, after all. SO if they were trying to describe beings that had supernatural power, but did not conform to their ideas of their gods, they must be either the god's demons and angels.

BTW and a bit off topic, but I should point this out now in case there are concerns.

I will in no way act as a moderator in this thread.If you disagree with anything I say, spell it out and don't spare the lash.

It would be very wrong of me to hand out 1-liner warns or anything else within this thread, since I plan to be very active in it.

I really was hoping someone else would start this debate and even hinted at the idea in Alien Agenda's active thread. But...no takers.

It is an interesting topic
I remember reading something like the vatican stated to not link demons to aliens, hmmm I wonder why not?
My theory is that the aliens are the nephlim or fallen angel childrens or demon spawn because who else would they be. Come on there is never going to be proof of any of this but it is still cool to discuss, and it depends from where your perception is how you will actually see something I agree with HankMcCoy and masqua.
Speakeroftruth there is no evidence of anything so how can you disprove the aliens are not demons or if you have any proof either way I would like to know.
There are many stories, tales, myths, legends but no proof they are actual real events of things that happened, it is up to you and which lie you will favor over another or which truth you believe in which askews your perceptions.
So if the aliens are demons what happens next?
If you know the aliens are not demons how can you prove it either way?

There are things that people should conclude without having so called physical proof in your hands. At this point, my opinion is that there is no real proof anyways of anything in a world where the more we learn about things, the more we realize that we didn't know much of anything at the time. Continuous cycle? There are holograms that look just like the real thing. Aliens can dematerialize UFOs, objects, and themselves. Time is not edged in stone in a world of time travel. The speed of light and other laws of physics do not apply to the other dimensions. These are just some of the complications in life that indicate that so called proof is not really proof at all.
Having said that, lets lean more to believing in things that just make sense. That's basically all we got to stand on at this point. I know that the government is more than willing to support the secrecy of the alien topic. It has even been confirmed by a number of government employees that the government does work with aliens inside underground bases. Now we know that the government is basically representing us as a species. Plain and simple, the government is composed of humans. They have chosen to keep things a secret. Even if every alien was a religious entity, why would government employees support there own spiritual damnation. I remember how this country was founded by Christians and had a multitude of Christians employeed all through out the government. Think about it.


[edit on 20-11-2006 by realanswers]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well what about this one?

Dropas

Thanks, SoT, but the jury is still out on them...

The Dropa Stones were first brought to mainstream attention by Erich von Daniken in 1978 and the internet is now full of websites calling them a hoax (right along with the Ica Stones).

en.wikipedia.org...

So, until there is a scientific evaluation of the stones which confirm thier extra-terrestrial origins, I'm tempted to slide them into the "we just don't know" catagory.

They're an intersting topic, though, and when I Googled them, I found quite a few ATS threads about them.

I personally believe that Aliens aer flesh and blood creatures (based on a couple of sightings of what appeared to be craft, and one experience I really hope was a dream), but I don't think that rules out the existence of spiritual entities.

I don't see why UFO's are not Angels if they wish to take that form they could.
Angels according to the Bible have their own spheres to travel in Ezekiel's Wheels for example chapter 10 are Cherubins. I have to read it again but apperently they time travelled and appeared invisible too
www.newadvent.org... .
But these are quite high ranking types and not sure if fallen types exists I think only Satan could have been not sure unless he is making new devices up.

Anyway but it does not mean Angels do not have UFO type look about them, and any UFO we do see properly does have that transparency type look and shape shifting as reported by witnesses anyway. Look at some videos and witness accounts, so to say they are solid metal may not be the case. I think the locusts in the book of Revelations could be very UFO type creatures, alot of contactees or UFO experience has caused people to feel pain and injury some very like as descibed by the locusts out of the Abyss. Also a lot more Unidentified Sea OBJECTS have been reported and seen coming out of the sea.




[edit on 20-11-2006 by The time lord]

during world war two there were angles seen piloting the aircraft of pilots that had been killed while they were flying, so i gues alians could be percieved as deamons but then where did the craft come from, thats just my take on the subject, but i could be wrong