Survivalist : Major power grid destruction!!!!!

No problem AA. Glad to be of service.
[pep talk]I was hoping to pique a little curiosity among some and maybe liven it up some. I don't profess to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I do have a substantial amount of experience in the subject at hand. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'll participate in the discussion and hopefully learn from it as well. What I won't do is be a one sided lecturer. I want to see some participation. How about it people? This forum, not just this thread but this forum, is a great opportunity for us to share knowledge. It will only happen if we participate so let's get out there and "win one for the Gipper" [/pep talk]

Seriously, AA I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds in your thread.
if I have, I apologize. I'm not trying to hijack it. It just seemed the perfect example to illustrate my point. OK,,this is me apologetically backing out of the room and closing the door. Ed



Hey, can't be all bad. Looks like you got a page 2 out of it.

[edit on 26-9-2007 by SemperParatus]

I have a small bank of deep cycle batteries for that just in case time. I have some ham equip, tv's, and appliances that run off 12 V DC. I have adapted all 12 volt items to accept the Anderson Power Pole adapter and have them all configured the same way so it's just plug and play. If you think of using a battery system, you should check these out, makes a real neat and clean connection.

My oldest daughter made a power station that can plug in 6 appliances at once and wired it so it can really pull a decent load. No kidding guys, she's 20 AND handy around the house ( I think her current crop of boyfriends are losers)

I have a small generator for a recharging system, but have not used this part yet, other than to play what if. Solar just wouldn't work well for my location, but I have really thought about some small, portable panels.

I can get about a week of somewhat frugal usage from the batteries, for what I am doing. I could cut back on TV time and save power or even stack a few more batteries in the bank.

Just tossing this out for what I've done...

[edit on 26-9-2007 by elevatedone]

[edit on 26-9-2007 by elevatedone]

Even something as simple as brewing a cup of coffee becomes a chore without electricity.

Well what did you think of my coffee press idea? Not only does it make outstanding coffee with less water, no electricity, but has major caffeine in it too. So while trying to survive I won't have a blinding headache to contend with.
It's not difficult (even a child could do it).
Don't want to buy a thirty dollar coffee press? Rest a strainer lined with a filter and dosed with the appropriate amount of grounds in a pan of very hot water. Let it steep that way. Same great results.
Very civilized way to live (with or without electricity)
Jules

I thought the article below very timely in light of the discussions in this thread.

news.yahoo.com...

It would seem to confirm that not only can the failure of electricity and power sources be an issue but the manipulation of such systems as well. I'm sure this information was only released because it has been thoroughly hashed over but it is a good reminder of the fact that there are many, many ways to affect critical systems.

I'll never forget that blackout in August in the eastern part of the US a few summers ago. All I kept thinking was that we need electricity for everything.

reply to post by SemperParatus

No sir you most certainly have not over stepped your bounds. Ime not like that at all. I dont consider it as my thread. It was my idea but it is The ATS survival communitys thread.

I Dont do this for points I dont do it for fame or kicks. I do this because I truly care about people and have been blessed with a good life. I feel it is my duty to repay society by spreading what knowledge I can and learning all I can to help my own family. That will never happen alone thow its got to be a team effort.

this thread Could help somebody and If what I fear happens it may help a whole lot of people.

Just so I stay on topic I finally found a solution to the sustaniable water problem. See the link below and let me know what you think.

Stainless steel deep well water pump

I went and looked at the stainless steel water pump, pretty nifty. It doesn't look too complicated but after all the various items needed with the pump itself the cost is running around one thousand dollars for everything including shipping and if taxes are applicable. That is a good sized expenditure (like replacing a major appliance).
The pump itself works in conjunction with an already existing electric pump so you can pump water regardless of circumstances down to 300 feet. Very nice! The one thing I didn't like was how short the warranty is (only five years). I'm wondering in a major disaster or attack of some sort who would we call for a warranty claim.. lol
With such a short warranty, would it be wise to have a second pump or spare pump parts on hand?
Jules

One hundred years ago in North America electrical energy in the home was all but unheard of. What an eventful hundred years it has been though. We have become so accustomed to electrical power that it would be hard to imagine life without it. What started as a convenient way of lighting the home has evolved to the point that there is hardly any aspect of our lives that doesn’t depend on it. More than any other single non-essential it has truly “spoiled” us. It would astonish most people to know just how much of that use of electricity could be eliminated with only a few sacrifices and a whole lot of re-thinking. That is the first key to successfully being your own power company.

Fortunately for us, the same technology that taught us to depend so heavily on electricity is rapidly evolving into solutions for the problems it has created. As incandescent light bulbs are rapidly losing in popularity to fluorescent bulbs the technology for the light emitting diode (LED) is promising to eclipse them all. Not only are they moving us into an era of low voltage direct current (DC) lighting, they hardly use any power at all. Additionally they don’t give off any appreciable amount of heat. Although initial outlay for the diodes is quite high they seem to last forever. They are about as near to maintenance free for lighting as you can hope to get.

We are also fortunate that we are able to benefit from the innovations made to accommodate the traveling sectors of our society. A truck driver is able to buy a crock pot type slow cooker that operates on 75 watts of power and does a remarkably good job. Ammonia charged refrigerators only need a small heat source at the proper location to not only keep your food cold but also to make ice.

These are but a few examples of the possibilities to explore on the road toward electrical independence. Proper planning to reduce as much need as possible will have a tremendous impact on the end result.

Yet another excerpt from my work in progress. Hope it helps somebody.

Ed

I also looked that pump over amd came to pretty much the same conclusions as Jules. I've been kicking around the idea of maybe trying to rewind a submersible electric pump to operate on 12 VDC. I know that you can buy them but they seem to be in the same price range as the link to the hand pump and I wasn't overly impressed with the stats I saw on that either. My well is a 30" bore so I can drop a bucket on a rope down it. It's 50 feet deep and 20 feet of that is water so it shouldn't be too hard to draw from. It would be nice to be able to pump water without having to come out into the open though.

I thought the Stirling engine might hold possibilities for a lot of things. You can find out about it at en.wikipedia.org...

Oh,,just thought of an interesting side note about my well. The crew showed up on the pre arranged morning to drill the well and announced to me that a plane had just flown into the World Trade Center. While that tragedy was unfolding they were drilling my well.

Ed

Well here is an idea for power and heat It was invented in 1976 but coudnt be perfected so check it out maybe your the one to make it work.

non electrick furnace blower

If there is wide spread disruption in the ability to generate and distribute power the last thing you need to concern yourself with is having battery power to run your laptop..... no internet.. what are you going to do watch movies ? when you should be catching "food" or distilling your run-off water are moving firewood....

Please get real. If you live in a home then you have shelter sure it might get cold/hot in there but you will be shielded from the elements.

Top priority then is

Water- storage and distilling

Cooking- including storage of firewood

Food sources

Forget refrigerators, think of it as no more processed foods. So go accumulate non-perishable food stores as quickly as possible, can foods, dehydrated beans, noodles, rice, dry cereal etc.

Maybe you live close to a dairy or farm. You can barter to get milk, milk stock for butter, eggs etc.

If you kill a wild animal for food, realize you probably will not be able to eat it all before it spoils so set up a support network of neighbors who you can barter with, split the kill and trade for other resources you may require, such as they may spend their day collecting or trading for can goods while you hunt, and you share.

Create a commune of like minded people, strength in numbers as each may bring their own gifts and knowledge.

By having more members in your "tribe" you can better ensure the survival of your group.

Be as low profile as possible to people outside of your group as security is a major concern if you have sizable stored resources that someone outside of your group may want to take from you.

This means being armed and being prepared to defend your group at all times. Stranger must be throughly checked for weapons before interacting within your established group.

Once its determined that power will not be coming back on at all due to destruction or total collapse of the global governments etc then you need to be prepared to grow food such as beans, corn etc

Animal fat can be reduced and made into candles animal fur fashioned over time into bedding or clothing etc uncommon portions of the animal carcass may be used to feed livestock or other animals, ie your family pets cat dogs etc, the livers, kidneys, hearts and other fleshy muscle matter of your hunted kill can be cooked to sustain your pets. Fish is a great food source for your pets as well, so even if you are trying to catch fish to feed your family remember smaller fish can still be plenty for your cat or dog to sustain them.

Really when you get down to it, electricity is not needed, it powers your computers and TV (not needed) it runs your AC and Furnace (while nice you can adapt without it), it powers your lights (use/make candles, go to bed with the sun you will need as much rest as you can as a world without the grocery store or modern infrastructure is very labor intensive). Power your Radio ? what are you listening for ? Operate your toaster, coffee maker or microwave ? its 1907 again, they did not have them then and you dont have them now....

Bored, find a book to read maybe something about hunting survival, medical attention, plant types, how to grow crops, how to boil and collect water... lots of things you may need to learn...

Write everything down of your daily experience, make weapons, collect items to make your current life more bearable..

Make a sun dial and chart the movements of the sun indicating how warm or cold you feel at noon each day... this will help you predict in later years when to plant and harvest crops, when Summer or Winter maybe approaching etc

Many many things to be done

I know personally should I have to face such a "tragedy" that my life's calling will be presented, to lead a group of people to continue to press forward to have strength to have hope, to bond with nature.

Maybe children growing up through this will be a better human.

reply to post by angryamerican


What an interesting idea; if it weren't for the 130 decibels of ear shattering noise it'd be downright crazy to not get one.
So how could that noise be insulated??

reply to post by angryamerican


I like the concept. I have a cousin who lost a hand from an explosion involving steam and wood heat many years ago though so I'd approach any experimentation with extreme caution. Also I can say from experience that putting a car alternator under load can stall an 8hp Briggs and Stratton engine. That must be tremendous steam pressure involved in this invention. It's definitely a concept worth considering.

I wonder how a more passive system might work. For instance, off the top of my head it would seem that knowing that heat rises can be exploited. How about a second stovepipe (vertically) alongside the one that discharges the smoke, possibly both within an insulated enclosure? The top end of that pipe would be connected to a main trunk overhead with registers wherever needed. The air intake would come from whatever cold spot works best for you. That heat rotation principal is actually what keeps a water heater from giving you cold spots while taking a shower.

That link was definitely food for thought. Thanks for posting it.

Ed

reply to post by robertfenix


Electricity is a very important tool in our arsenal of technology. It's too simple a concept and too easy to make for me to toss it aside so easily. When electrons jump from one atom to another in a conductor you have electricity. All that is needed to cause this to happen is to pass a copper wire through a magnetic field. Pass a coil of copper wire (as in armature) through that same magnetic field and you multiply the output by the number of windings on the coil. How many things do you own right now that have electric motors in them? A motor and a generator is essentially the same animal. You just need a way to spin it. I'll gladly sacrifice my microwave for the means to power my laptop and access my electronic survival library. Also in long term survival the person that can do that will be highly regarded in his/her community.

It really doesn't have to be an either/or consideration anyway. I'll use it as long as I'm able because it is a work saver. If the situation is such that it is no longer a viable option I'll revert to the more primitive ways. That also is in my bag of tricks.

Ed

Would it be prudent to devote a certain amount of time harnessing wind and sunlight?
I'm on a somewhat windy hill in a very desert setting... I'm thinking I'll have wind and/or sun most of the time unless man figures out a way to blow up the sun.
Is it possible to make a mini hydro electric dam? Something using the water power from a creek or river?
Jules

reply to post by julesmac8


Jules, if you have all of those things going for you, you've got it made. Another way of producing electricity is to bond 2 dis-similar metals and heat them up. Think thermocouple, the device that won't let your gas heat or water heater release gas if the pilot goes out. Connect a very large number of those together and you have a very crude description of solar cells as I understand it. Maybe someone can correct me on that. Solar technology is really kind of hard to find detailed information about on the internet. At least detailed to the degree it would need to be to enable you to make your own. I'd love to have that info.

If you are convenient to a reasonably substantial water flow that would be your most reliable option. You would probably need to build a dam and create a "head" for water pressure. There are many ways to accomplish this. Google can help more than I can at this stage for you

Also, a while back I downloaded plans to turn a scrap microwave oven into a wind powered generator. Every component was common parts in the oven. He even cut the vanes for the wind mill out of the cabinet. Been trying to locate it for the past couple of days but can't remember what I named the file. I'll get back to you on that one when I find it.
Hope this helps.

Edited to include these links:

www.windstuffnow.com...

www.webpal.org...

Haven't really had a chance to check out that second link. The first one was the plans I referred to earlier.

Ed

[edit on 28-9-2007 by SemperParatus]

A recent AP report states that there is a proposal in place to change the frequency various parts of the national electrical grid run at. The frequency differences will be minor, but will force an end to the national grid as we know it. The only way frequencies can be different at all in separate locations around the nation is to not have a grid at all. They are attempting to childishly play this down as something that will mess up clocks. But what it really means is that they are going to dismantle the national power grid entirely.

Link Link Link