Survivalist : Major power grid destruction!!!!!

AS I set here this morning drinking my cup of coffee Made in an electrick coffe maker I just cant help but think.
How horrible our world would be if the power was just cut off. In the first few hours it wouldn't be much of a difference. Just another temporary power interruption that would be restored soon.
In the days to follow people would start to die as life support battery UPS became depleted, and generators run out of Fuel. Life support would fail taking the sick.
The elderly who are living on there own would be next, followed by those that required medication to live. In the weeks to follow people would begin to starve or freeze to death. Then disease like Dysentery would set in taking those that were infirm. Eventually the death rate would slow leaving the strong, lucky, and or smart. but even the Strong and or smart can run out of luck.
So I would recommend you take stock of what you do every day that requires electricity and figure out alternative ways of doing it. What if your fridge goes down. Think of all that food that will spoil within two days.
More impotently what about water. you can live a lot longer without food then you can water.
Communication what of that. How will you know your friends and relatives are ok? How will they know you are ok?
Cars If you have a full tank will last you a bit but ware will you go. no stores will be open after a while. Gas stations will have fuel in there big tanks with no way to pump it. roads will probly be blocked after a bit as things go down hill fast. things like fires and cars that have quite in the middle of the road.
A lot of people say oh I'll hunt to feed my family. What happens when you run out of Ammo? A lot of hunters in the U.S. have no clue how to use a bow. Even if they did you loose arrows. Take down a Deer and that arrow is done. Miss the deer and that arrow is gone in less you are very lucky, you will probly never find it.
The purpose of this post is not to give you information or links to sites to give you information. The purpose of the post is to get you thinking about what you might need to do to live without electricity.
I personally believe that eventually the terrorist will take out the grid for Several countries and A lot of people will not know how to live and will die. So If your prepared your chances are better.
What I would like to see is a lively discussion of what we take for granted every day that would become extremely difficult if the grid went down for months or years. Knowledge is power folks, and it can and will save your lives, but if you don't take time to know what to study you may miss the knowledge when you need it the most.

Well I thought this was a great discussion I guess I was the only one. Opps Got caught talking to myself again. LOL

Angry, talking to yourself isn't so bad, it's answering yourself that really makes you nuts. Good post. And this is something most people think they have a handle on, but really don't.

"We'll use an outside toilet." -Do you know the value of quick lime for it?

"We'll haul water." -Do you know where a well that you trust is, nearby?

"We'll grow food." -Do you have seeds, and enough to eat till it's ready?

"We're all healthy." -Do you know how to set a broken leg?

"We've got horses." -Do you know how to plow with one, and will that show horse even do that?

I could add to the list, but most of the 'solutions' people use when this type of thing is brought up, just aren't thought out. The first step is good, because people, as a whole, are pretty quick to find the right answer to life's setbacks. The thing that will get them is steps two through nine hundred.

That's the value of 'old folks'. But it needs to be thought out before the SHTF.

And as a helpful idea, there used to be some really good 'how to' books out there. There was a magazine called 'Mother Earth News' that I have a bunch of back issues to. Really good stuff. Practical things. It should be required reading for everyone interested in surviving without all the modern 'junk'. (I understand that the magazine changed hands and has gone downhill really bad in later years. I treasure my old copies from the 70s. I have #1 and almost all of them up to the mid 80s. A good resource.)

Keep the questions and ideas coming, we may need this in a while.

Modern convience will have killed thousands when the power grid goes down. The most basic of skills are lost on most people. Take cooking with fire. Yeah firebuilding is lost on city folks. But cooking with fire. I always get a chuckle when people start throwing meat on the fold up wire "campfire grills" as soon as they have a steady flame. Even heard one guy say I hope I don't burn up the burgers again, hon while the flame was still coming through the wires. So I walked over and asked him if he ever grilled out with charcoal in the backyard. He had. Then I asked if he waited until the they had burned down to about a bed of coals. Always he said. So I just gave him a look and wink before walking away to grab us each a Coke to drink while waiting for the fire to burn down a bit.

They were a pretty nice couple so I ended up sharing some eggs with them the next morning for breakfast since I brought a full dozen with me that I gathered from my next door neighbor's before I left for camping. And he had better luck than I did fishing that afternoon so he gave me a nice bass for supper that night.

Now granted that was just weekend camping for relaxation, but he learned a little something that could one day help him. And I had some decent campground neighbors for a change instead of young kids blasting a radio and moaning and groaning all night 30 feet away.

Ahabstar
Thanks for the contribution. This seems to be a subject people in general do not want to talk about. I started this thread on 11-19-2006 and it quickly disappeared. not a single comment. then I made a comment on it to bring it back to the top and its disappearing again. The only thing I can figure is when it comes to living permently without modern appliances people are scared and don't want to talk about it or think about. I however feel it is a real possibility of it happening in my life time and want to be prepared.

My family and I also do a ton of camping and Ive noticed the same thing. People just don't know how to cook without a stove. how many can bake bread or make a cake over a fire pit. I've been told that its impossible. Yet my wife does it every time we go camping. she learned that skill from her father. her father grew up in southern Mexico and lived most of his life without electricity. When we make the long trip out west to visit its not unusual to walk into her parents house and find oil lamps burning even tho they have electricity. People will stick with what they know.

When the grid drops people will die, its that simple. they don't want to think about learning to live without so they will not be prepared.

Simple things like shaving with a strate razor. A little piece of knowledge even i lack. Modern non electrical razors can not be made with out electricity. So people will either have to learn on the fly or grow a beard. shaving is not life threating I realize but it is one of the ways our life's would change with out electricity. That is stuff I would love to see discussed but people seem to be afraid. Maybe if we flag this enough it will get noticed. So flag away its important. Its also the reason why The survival forums was created here on ATS to share knowledge and help everybody get threw the bad times ahead.

Well, having lived through the great power outage of 2003 in the NE U.S. and not having power for 3 full days I can tell you that my survival skills did come into play.

Not only did we not have electricity, we didn't have potable water either. I can attest that my family and I had absolutely zero problems. Being prepared certainly helped. I always keep 20 gallons of potable water stored in platic carboys that I change out every 3 months. I have a hand crank radio and battery-less led flashlights in addition to your more traditional stuff like torches and battery operated flashlights. I have a generator that I admit I did use to keep my fridge and freezer running (Hey - I had just purchased over $300 in meat!!!). I have a propane gas frill with 2 extra tanks. Now, that being said, is fine for a grid breakdown that is temporary. According to my planning I could survive a full month in this set-up.

Now, let's assume that grid failure is either permanent or too long lasting to afford my family to survive in our current home... I have completed several survival courses and am a life-long hiker, camper, fisherman, hunter and all around outdoorsman. I can build fire from 2 sticks. I can not only cook over open fire, but I can make charcoal for use later. I can hunt, fish and trap game to include field dressing. I can procure water from multiple sources and make it potable. I can build many types of shelters that would withstand the weather. I am certified as a first responder in first aid and advanced lifesaving techniques. I know enough about my native flora and fauna to forage for food. I have been an avid gardener as a hobby for my whole life.

There are times when I wish that we could go back to being a totally agrarian society - life was so simple then. I could easily survive and ensure my family's survival as well. But, as you've already addressed, I believe that over 75% of the people in the US would die of exposure and/or starvation within 6 months!

the biggest problem in fact is not the survival of the individual but rather that of the infrastructure.

Say a coal or nuclear power plant while they infact generate power to the grid a major collapse in the grid and exhaustion of backup fuel could present a hazard if proper safegaurds are not immediately taken.

So lets assume the plants are all safely shut down using emergancy back up system to halt operations.

regarding fuel, below ground tanks can be pumped by hand as it was in the 30's and 40's

fuel trucks deliver fuel by gravity feed and on board self powered pumps

Large fuel storage tanks also feed by gravity but may need to have the valves open and closed manually.

Hydro electric dams will still generate power and provide localized energy, you can not complete destroy the power grid without downing every transmission wire/ pole etc. So power distribution is still possible. As is 100% self reliant nuclear power plants that generate their own power usage requirements regardless of connected to the grid, this of course requires 2 or more reactors that can operate independantly while one core rods are being changed thus producing no power.

day to day personal life would change as no long term food storage, limited to non processed foods, most cities having no running water as pumping stations would be offline to conserve what limited energy may be available if any to a typical city.

in some areas there would be mass migration to areas said to have power etc

the farmer. rancher would become top of the cast list again as their products will be in the highest daily demand as can goods became scarce you would see co-op farms being planted anywhere there was available space

where once was a super walmart over time would become a field of corn again.

but there are other industrialized nations on this planet, we could purchase power generation equipment and materials we would rebuild the power network whether coal or nuclear or natural gas or hydro electric we may lose some of the commercialized expanse of shopping malls and stores etc but we may gain the appreciation of the land once again and opt to continue with our organic co-ops and health less processed food diets..

It might actually be good for us.

if you were talking global wide power disruption complete infrastructure collapse planet wide. Then you would have to become an indian or an egyptian or an african native or one of any number of civilizations that amazingly survived hundereds if not thousands of years without electricity....

Is it impossible to survive without electricity ????? It just so happens we have thousands of years of history that answers that very question.

Please do not live by the fear alone that no electricity means immediate death for everyone.

Of course some people will die, people die everyday ever second in fact even in the US. We shall all die one day in fact

I guess i wouldt be affected alot by it if it was shorttherm. And im kinda prepared to a global failure of the system with my bob kit. I have a portable solar panel for the only electrical thing i need : My Laptop, it stores the whole backshed site for purpose of building stuff to generate power. Survival guides to show how to get water,food,shelter,.... anywhere in the world. I store al these things on it because i believe that the whole world would be in choas if the grid failed. So i would move to a location where there is pretty much nothing . And sit out the whole thingy up there. Maybe with some friends and people who contribute in building tools and knowledge. Hope it never is happens.

Originally posted by robertfenix
Is it impossible to survive without electricity ????? It just so happens we have thousands of years of history that answers that very question.

Please do not live by the fear alone that no electricity means immediate death for everyone.

Thats why I started this thread knowledge is the number one killer of fear. The goal is to discuss the techniques for living without electricity. So lets just assume for the sake of argument that it is a world wide thing and the chance of the power coming back on in our life time is 0% or less. Everybody needs to pick a simple subject of something we do with electricity and share how to do it without. Even something as simple as brewing a cup of coffee becomes a chore without electricity.

Some things can be done without electrisity fairly easily, assuming that only electric has been knocked out, it does pose a serious problem when it goes on for a longer period of time.

If the power is knocked out by something other than country wide catastrophy then you can be sure that replacment parts will coem fairly quickly and everythign will be back to normal soon.

If You expect average joe to live without it given no prior notice, over a longer timescale, you then run into problems. Then you get civil unrest and the prepaired need to think about getting out of harms way

Solar panel backup for the laptop info is nice and all but would suggest getting a small diary and start transcribing important information for a few reasons.

1) Sunshine is not always dependable when you might need it the most.
2) Quite the space and weight difference when you need it the most.
3) By considering value of info you can seperate the wheat from the chaff.
4) By writing it down (speak out load while doing it) you commit info to memory easier.
5) Should you not make it and someone finds you, your portable info could save their life.

Now I know the 5th point doesn't have a ton of appeal as it deals with personal mortality. But the sharing of info and helping others is what this forum is all about. That simple diary could be your last greatest post. Kinda neat that you did it posthumously.

AA, sorry didn't see your post beforehand as I was pretty much offline when it was originally posted. But you are right that it is an important gateway topic for people to start thinking of survival.

We lose power all the time, usually just a few hours during a storm but last winter the whole town was out for about 8 hours. No biggie but it happened to be fairly cold and the apartment building is not well insulated. I just fired up my little oil lantern and took my larger one to the Chinese student down the hall. Fairly safe light and heat and lasts longer than candles. She asked how long I thought the power would be out. I told not to worry and I could come down and help her cook something when she was hungry. Water was no problem as there was plenty of snow outside to gather and melt and I was thinking of fixing some roman noodles when the power went out. Just had a bologna sandwich without the soup that night instead. It was sad watching the kids sleeping in running cars when a couple extra blankets was enough that night.

I actually live in a travel trailer. From my experiences, it doesn't take all that much effort to cook with either wood or gas flame stove. I cook with wood outside during the summer almost exclusively to save on prevent heating up my trailer. I made a rocket stove from a cast iron elbow and union. Rocket stoves are easy to make and very efficient users of fuel.

Rain water catchment systems are rapidly become a normal sight here in central Texas due to high cost of well digging as well as falling water tables. Ponds or stock tanks are also very common. When I finally get some land of my own. The very first task will be to build a pond. Wells can and do run dry on a regular basis. But a pond will be recharged after every rain. They work best in a area that receives at least 20 inches of rain a year. The average family house hold uses 146k gallons per year. Remember this figure includes the water usage not commonly associated with household use such as watering crops and livestock.

Ever see one of those mini decorative wind mills? Originally those weren't decorative, they were used aerate ponds to keep down mosquitoes. Mosquitoes prefer stagnant water to lay their eggs in.

Even a small solar charging system with a car battery can make your life more tolerable by powering a fan or 12v cooler. Homepower.com is a good source of info for offgrid living.

Good subject AA. Don't know why this one hasn't done any better than it has.

When I went off grid one of the first things I learned was that man is not by nature nocturnal. Sundown very quickly becomes bedtime. What else is there to do? Because of this, artificial lighting is not as big an issue as you might think. You also become much more aware of what foods are in season.

During the first couple of years I evolved from trying to maintain status quo to becoming comfortable with alternate ways. It's easy now to sometimes wonder what the fuss was all about. Even though it was my choice it took me a long time to realize how hard I was actually fighting back. I'm on grid now, preparing to go off again. This time for good. I figure we're all going to anyway. Might as well start early and beat the rush. It should be more comfortable this time. Technology has given us a lot to work with in the last 20 years.

Anyway, maybe we can revive a thread that appears too have died much too young.

Like you, I don't understand why the numbers show people reading but there is such a small actual participation. I'm new here but I'm not new to forums. This one has the potential to be a great survival forum but without input it will die. Most of us are here because we believe that very bad things are about to happen. Some of your futures may depend on what you learn right here. Not having all the right answers can be greatly offset by having all (or at least some) of the right questions. It'a about dialogue.

i would suggest watching man vs nature it is a very educating program fortunately i used to live for camping and i think i could make it easily enough if there was a power grid failure but who knows its allways good to learn more you can never be too prepared

AA don't think of it as no one being interested or maybe being too scared to even think about it: just think of it as being ahead of your time.
I only found this place a month ago!
Now for the topic at hand; how do the Amish live?? Does their community live off grid?
Jules

Before I forget: AA do you want a better cuppa joe without using electricity? If you can heat a quart of water over fire (and I know you can) then try a coffee press. Steep your coffee and you don't need an electric coffee maker and you will use less water than a traditional twelve cup coffee maker. The extra bonus is that the coffee is quite a bit higher in caffeine too. Turbo Coffee! This way makes a very rich and satisfying cup of coffee and its high octane is always appreciated by folks like me.
Jules

I'd turn Mormon or Menonite real quick.

Imagine my surprise when I saw this thread had been brought back from the dead. Thank you SemperParatus for reviving it. It is something I feel very strongly about. People will and do die in all seasons without electricity.

Yep we have thousands of years for mankind without but much of the knowledge has been lost. That is ware we come in. Combined we hold a lot of that lost knowledge that can help save perhaps millions of people.

That is originally why I was one of the people onboard even before there was a official ATS survival boards. I think it was thelibra who had the original idea but ime not sure. back then we use to use the general forums as a title we would put (survival) living with out or some such title.

I wasn't sure at the beginning if we could make it or not because of the stigma that is stuck on survivalist. you know the one. They think of us as loners rambos and crazys. From my experience nothing could be further from the truth. We are family members and friends neighbors and all around great members of society, who come from all walks of life. We have one common thread thow. we care enough to live and help live.

It is for that reason I start threads like this. Knowledge is power and compassion makes us human. So that being said lets see what we can do with this thread this time.

Ime researching back up water systems at the moment. AKA running your well pump without mains. if anybody can help with this that would be great.

there isn't a lot of knowledge or ways ive ran across so far, but not everybody lives on grid so other then hand pumps there has to be a easy reliable way.

It is not hard to survive in the winter, it is not the matter of no electricity, it is the matter of training.
Winter Jackets are good, but it is not good enough because your heat still escapes, so get newspapers, or insulations, and stick them in your jackets to reduce loss of heat.
For water, if it was snowing then I would take the snow, build a fire inside my garage, melt it/sterilize it.
For food, I suggest you learn to use the bow, that is what I am doing and I am getting great at it.
Other then that, I have water stored enough for 6 months, food stored enough for 4-5 months, and gas stored good enough for 1 long drive. I suggest you do the same.