UCLA Police Taser Student For Not Showing ID W/Video

NJ Mooch : That doesn't change my mind about this at all.

You take the quote of the one witness,and say "since there was only that one witness acount posted and anyone could say anything to make or break this story. ".Ok so that witness' testimony could go either way according to you,but when this Greenstein says he urged others to join his "resistance",you treat that as gospel?You don't think some people might not want to admit that this was a major screw up?If it was,most of the time they'll take the mentality of "it's his word against ours,he doesn't stand a chance."Who would a judge believe most?The authorities or a "liberal" college student who the cops say was trying to start an uprising.Hmmm.

The brass tacks of this whole thing is the fact that there were better ways of going about removing him than tasering him multiple times.He went limp?Ah ok so that was extremely threatening to the point they had to taser him.

It was an excessive show of force to say the least,and the reaction of the students in that video should tell you something.If he had been violent toward the "cops" in any way I kinda doubt the students would have been half as infuriated as they appeared to be.As a matter of fact,if they'd percieved this guy as a potential threat,I'm willing to bet they would have welcomed the police intervention.That didn't appear to be the case to me.

This proves conclusively that there's no police state ramp up here in the US. Chew on it folks, it's just the way it is!....Acquire a hand gun now and don't relinguish it to anyone.

Originally posted by MCory1
Yeah, sorry but I gotta agree with D4rk Kn1ght on this one. My experience has always been the ones who won't show the cops an ID--even if it is just a random check--are the ones who have something they don't want the cops to know about.

Maybe I'm just a prime example of the ever-popular sheeple, but if a cop asks for my ID, he gets it. If I don't give it to him, and he (or she) tazes me, I'd like to think I'd be smart enough to comply from then on. If they keep going after me after I'm following along (or if I followed along in the first place), well then I talk to a good civil attorney and see how big a piece of the city or school I can get.

How hard is it to just say "Yes Sir/No sir" until after the fact? Sorry; I'd be damned embarrassed to see my screaming mug on YouTube because I wanted to cop an attitude.

I agree. Honestly be smarter then the guy who got tazed.

He comes to the door, he is asked for an id. He doesnt have an id, so he pisses someone off at the desk to the point they call the cops.

Cops come he doesnt have an idea, he thinks hes a hardass when hes probably (apparent from the screaming like a girl) never even been in a fight and was trying to be cool.

The cops didnt go
"hey kid, got an id?"
"No sir, but I can go get one in my car"
BZZZTTT

Most likely it went like this..

"Sir can you show me your id please?"
"Pshht hoe, I aints guna sho you nothin" - looks around to make sure people notice that he is being tough with a librarian -
police get called
"Sir, can you show me your id or state why you are here?"
"No, I don't need an id get outs my way fool" - ensures more attention as he is now being tough to a librarian and a campus police officer -
"Sir I am going to have to ask you to leave if you cannot show an ID"
"Im not going no where!" (wouldn't surprise me if he mentions how the constitution gives him exclusive rights to UCLA libraries and such)
"Sir, I am going to have to ask you to leave or I will have to escort you out of here" - this is where the kid decides the "rent a cop" as on of our "mature" members says, is just joking or something and can't really touch him.. besides the kid is excited about all the attention (entire library surrounded them to stare like a deer in the head lights)
The kid then goes on to tell how his rich daddy will sue the police officer if he touches him, most likely used profanity, maybe made an inappropriate gesture
back up is called, the kid still doesn't comply..
BZZZT

So.

The moral of the lesson people is this..

When you act like a jackass.. and you are then treated like a jackass.. it would behoove you to stop acting like jackass and if you persist to be a jackass not to be upset that you get treated as such.

This dumb kid should have been beaten into submission like any other dumb thug, tazers are there to protect officers.

given the kids apparent size (I know, mind the screaming like a girl) he was pretty big, takes more to take him down. he would not comply and thus tazed again. most likely he was drunk. Or maybe I give him to much credit and he was really just that dumb.

"Get off of me," according to the paper. He was then shot with the Taser, reported the paper.

The Daily Bruin reported that after he was hit, Tabatabainejad yelled, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your f---ing abuse of power."

It totally fine to think the boogy man is coming to get you if you really think that he is..

have some tact though..

have some .. ohh say..

RESPECT

When I get pulled over for a speeding ticket I am "Yes sir, of course sir, here you go sir, have a nice night officer" not "get off me!"

[edit on 11/16/2006 by Rockpuck]

His actions, going limp, are an act of defiance towards authority. These actions can be violent or peaceful, but it is still an act of defiance.

What would you do when you have a guy who:

Fails to prove he can legally be there
Did not leave when asked by staff personnel
When approached by security he falls limp, which I feel is an act of defiance
Doesn't listen to your numerous requests to leave
Is screaming at you when you go to remove him

All of that is fact, besides what I feel about him going limp, so what do you do?

If you say grab him and remove him, that is what they tried but he wouldn't listen and falls limp. Wouldn't you walk out with security at this point without resisting? Are you going to drag someone out who can easily walk out the door on his own two feet? He kept defying security so they made him comply forcefully.

I also would trust the statement by Greenstein over a statement by a random student witness since she went through a background check to apply for her job. Police Departments don't hire anyone without some type of background check. That gives her more clout then that witness since I have no info on that witness that would give me the idea that they are trustworthy. I want to base my opinions on facts and so far this is easy to make a judgement on since you only have a few versions to read about, the video, Greenstein's, and that student witness's.

www.ucpd.ucla.edu...
You can check out what those security personnel went through to get hired. You will see that they have gone through more then you thought they would have to get this job. They aren't a bunch of rent a cops and must meet the standards to get hired. Those standards aren't anything to laugh about since many people wouldn't make it.

Cops get paid hazard pay and a great salery because they are expected to put themselves in harms way and get a little banged up chasing down a perp. What happened to cops arresting people and subduing them the old fashioned way? Now they just taser you, whats next they don't want to use any calories so if your acting up they shoot you with a long range sniper, you know to protect the cops.

A good example would be again in LA. A few years ago two cops while on patrol met a crazy 85 year old amaciated homeless woman. These cops were bicycle cops and therefore in good shape, and both were relativly young (in their late 20's and early 30's) The old homeless 85 year old, amaciated lady lunged at the cops with a screwdriver. The cops according to witnesses were out of range of the oldbag but shot her to death, apparently to protect their lives. The old lady was no threat even with a screwdriver. If she were younger or more able bodied I could see them maybe tasering her, but shooting? The cops were lazy and unwilling to put the right amount of effort into doing their jobs like professionals. Whats next shooting toddlers cause they yanked on their pant leg.

What about the cops that escallate force so quickly they accidently shoot people? Like when they knocked on the door of a car with a woman sleeping in the drivers seat. They startled her and she jumped awake. The cops interpreted this as her reaching for a gun and shot her 27 times.
This prooves they aren't observent, doing their jobs well, don't use common sense even though they justify their actions as using just that, and they can't shoot a gun to save theirs or anyones elses life.

A good example of police incompetance with a fire arm would be when they fire at a suberban truck in broad daylight. They have the truck surrounded. It's traveling at about 2 miles an hour, they fire into the truck 91 times and hit the driver only twice. Pretty shoddy especially from only 10 feet away.

Earn your hazard pay, don't just justify it on paper.

Rockpuck, would you taser you're kid because he didn't listen to you or was disrespectful of you? The US has change so much since 9/11, people are insane thinking it's good to taser someone because he didn't answer or comply to a police officer ten times bigger than him for a freaking ID!

Tasers were designed and implemented to get out of control people back into control.
It was not designed to be a motivator of action. Rather an action inhibitor. The use of the taser in this situation IMO was uncalled for, uneccessary and CLEARLY used as a motivator of action. Specifically standing.

Two large men vs. one smaller student does NOT require the use of electricity. Smart officers, would have allowed the student to sit where he was until he got bored of making of a show for his classmates. It would of been over shortly I'm sure. The student would have left, so he could go tell all his friends what just happened.

The officers in this video, or officer who used the taser are not the pride of the blue.
They should be suspended and given more training.

College students have this habit of bucking the system and it's rules. It is not a new phenomena. And just because its post 9/11, doesn't make these students any more dangerous than those who bucked pre 9/11.

If I was there, I may have attempted to knock the taser out of the officers hand.
If I was there as a student 10+ years ago, I probably would not, it took me awhile to grow my cohonies.

exactly, the taser is used in incapacitate people who cannot be overpowered, not used as a command weapon.

"sit" zap!
"stand" zap
"roll over" zap

thats not how it works. we aren't animals, you dont shock us with tasers which pack thousands of volts of electricity per shock.

We don't use tasers as rockphuck suggested, to teacher the jackass a lesson. How would you like it if you made a jackass out of yourself while your driving, some guy runs up and zaps the hell out of you 6 times with a taser
"that will teach you to drive like that!" zap zap

no I dont think so. Two cops, zapping a kid who yelled "I have a condition!" yet continued to zap him. They could have easily subdued him, without the use of a taser. How do I know this? Because they ALREADY DID. the cuffs were on him already!

Honestly we apparently need to give all the cops a recourse as to why you use a taser. Incapacitation. How are you going to use a weapon that is meant to incapacitate, then tell a man to stand up?! Good God.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
A) dude should of stood up.....thus avoiding a tasering.

B) you get all smart arse with cops with tasers...then theb end results your problem.

C) No I.D? then wtf is he doing there any how? all that high value kit and student belongings...could he be a sneak thief/ who knows.


He got tasered, and booted out the door. Sorry, but you give grief, you gotta expect some back.

100% agree with you D4rk Knight, dude tried to be a wise ass and got called out!
Police deal with domestic crap all day long...this dude will think about it before he refuses to do what the cops ask again!
They ask for ID, give it to them....period!!!
You don't have a reason for being there, you gotta go...period!!
If this dude would have killed somebody, then everybody would have cried, "Why didn't the police do something about him, they should have asked for ID,"

Tazers are non-lethal, props to the cops for trying at least to protect us!!!

Actually by law the kid doesnt have to show ID unless hes being charged with something. He doesnt even have to say who he is at all unless he is underarrest, in this case they just tasered him. I guess next time you all should show ID just before entering the concentration camp.

I generally side on the side of cops in incidents like this. That once incident that hit the net awhile ago with the cop pepper spraying the lady in the car, I actually sided with the cop on that one because the lady wouldn't get off the cellphone, wouldn't obey his orders, and was just a nightmare through the whole thing.

In this instance though there's one thing that makes side on the side of the victim. He offered to leave. If the whole problem was that he was in a place without a ID card wouldn't him leaving be the answer to the problem? I don't see why the cops didn't just non-physically escort him out? I go to a university here in Washington State and I've been here for two years and even though ID cards are required, I've never bought one or had one before. However, I still use all the resources here without incident and I've never been asked for my card. I've never heard of a "random check" before. I've never even seen anything like this before. There's a lot of things here you have to have Student IDs for, for instance labs and certain student privilages but I've never been bothered before. It could be because I'm tall and white and I'm friendly guy but this story just screams injustice. The only rationale I can find for what the cops did is if the victim was suspected of stealing and was trying to make a get away or something to that effect but none of that is mentioned and even then the cops should approach it in a completely different way. I have to say that in this instance I'm siding with the victim.

Whatever happens it should be a doozy of a lawsuit.

I find the comments of some here absolutely incrdulous, to say the officer were correct in what they were doing well God help you , you the complient mind controlled sheep. The difference between being asked to show ID and then being tasered for not doing so is right is it, so what do they do when some one panics and runs away, shoot them in the back, woman, child etc. its no problem is it. When are the ignorant ones going to understand that laws are made to be broken, a person is percieved to be innocent until proved guilty.

One wonders what levels some will sink to to become complient and a good little citizen who can be told where they can shop, what car they can drive, if you can leave the country, and no you cannot have your guns back. The more you condone such actions the greater their frequency. Do Americans really want to live in a Police State. I mean lets face it murder suspects dont get that kind of treatment do they. So wellcome to the Police State, where those who do not cow tow to the system are punished for the slightest infringment and for daring to question authority.

I would make a sugestion to those who think this is a good idea to seriously study the Nazis before and during the war, I think you might have a different view, it was not just a case of Germany lost an we won, I'm not talking about military campaigns or the Holocuast, but about the Germans themselves. Its a story chock full of people only too willing to inflict pain and suffering on their fellow citizens and to denounce those who did not tow the line. The same mindset is in America now, its just a different country and a different langauge but all else is the same.

I just watched the video...

That was ridiculous...

I really hope those pigs those their jobs and I hope they get jail time. I hope that kid sues their department for a ridiculous amount of money.

That was just insane. Thank goodness the students stepped in and at least tried to do something but that was just wrong. If I was getting tased by three pigs like that I wouldn't move either. Something really needs to be done about this.

If I was in that position as an observer I would've called 911 and reported this or demanded some form of action.

Is there a phone number we could call for the police to vent our frustration about this? Is there anything we can do?

[edit on 16-11-2006 by CuriousSkeptic]

No we need to make it very clear and through example to these cops that if they abuse their power they will suffer twice the consequences. i say be twice as harsh on them in a legal sense. And they should be charged with things like crimes against humanity for violating our trust in them as well as their feduciary requirements to maintaining peace and to the people. Personaly I say throw the cops in the harshest general population we can find once they are arrested for act like these.

Like I said you just can't taser someone. Back in the day they only used a taser when they absolutly had to. Now they taser willy nilly. People die all the time from tasers. They are not safe. The only ones claiming they are are the manufacturers and whomever they pay off to say they are.

I love the pig at the end

"Get back in line... Get back over there or you'll get the same too... Get back over there"

I really want some numbers to call or I want to do something about this.

Quote in the news article from the pig there

"If he was able to walk out of here, I think he was OK," the sergeant said.

Yeah you had to drag him out after tasering him mulitple times... but hey it's all good right? How dare that brown guy be in a college library.

That was insane, those pigs need to do hard time.

[edit on 16-11-2006 by CuriousSkeptic]

The fact that the kid yelled "Here's your f-ing Patriot Act" makes me suspicious if he was looking for an opportunity to make that kind of a show. I think he was begging to get tased rather than protesting just to make some political point. The officers should have realized this from the start and not have played along.

newsroom.ucla.edu...
Read about the policy that is in place about ID card use at this location. Remember that this policy is posted in the library and it is in place for the students security. Those who fail to read these policies are the ones that get in trouble. If you fail to read a speed limit sign what is your defense in court when you get a speeding ticket?

Don't be in a rush to judge if you don't know all the facts.

Considering the Patriot Act itself had nothing to do with the incident or the officers actions, tells me the student was a student. Learning. We all know what he meant by that outburst.

Originally posted by NJ Mooch
newsroom.ucla.edu...
Read about the policy that is in place about ID card use at this location. Remember that this policy is posted in the library and it is in place for the students security. Those who fail to read these policies are the ones that get in trouble. If you fail to read a speed limit sign what is your defense in court when you get a speeding ticket?

Don't be in a rush to judge if you don't know all the facts.

That's all well and good if the kid didn't offer to leave first and if the cops didn't threaten those shocked by this display with the same kind of aggression.

Sorry you're wrong here and I'm not saying that to be a jerk because I usually side with the police but this was just beyond wrong.

Oh yeah and get this kid an attorney. He's got a real good case, and it's documented really well. Any decent lawyer would see this video and know that the police wouldn't have any hope of saving their asses if sued. He didn't break the law but the cops sure did a few times and in a period of 30 seconds or so. They escallated the scene more so than the collage student, and I would be as enraged as he was over the situation too.

Sue the UCPD too, a huge sum so that they never condone or protect officers who do this. and to hammer the message home to train their cops and then make sure they actually preform and live up to their training and that the UCPD will get the idea to 'improve' their policeing.

PS how come no fellow police officers that visit ATS are defending these cops? Probably because they would be on the wrong end of a moral argument.