US vetos Israeli UN condemnation of Gaza air strikes!

I was going to suggest that the Mods should close this thread and move the conversation over to the first thread about this subject, but seeing the type of messages that are being posted here, I suggest that both threads be kept open, maybe one of them can be kept at a civilized level (I know, I am an optimist).

I would like to post this article that I just read on Haaretz online news. I trust this newspaper for its honesty and balance of reporting in the Middle East. They have reporters from both sides of the fence as well as some Israeli arab reporters. This article mirrors the feelings of many in regards to the recent actions in Palestine and can be applied to others in the past. I hope you read this and understand where a lot of us come from that denounce these acts.

No one is guilty in Israel

By Gideon Levy

Nineteen inhabitants of Beit Hanun were killed with malice aforethought. There is no other way of describing the circumstances of their killing. Someone who throws burning matches into a forest can't claim he didn't mean to set it on fire, and anyone who bombards residential neighborhoods with artillery can't claim he didn't mean to kill innocent inhabitants.

Therefore it takes considerable gall and cynicism to dare to claim that the Israel Defense Forces did not intend to kill inhabitants of Beit Hanun. Even if there was a glitch in the balancing of the aiming mechanism or in a component of the radar, a mistake in the input of the data or a human error, the overwhelming, crucial, shocking fact is that the IDF bombards helpless civilians. Even shells that are supposedly aimed 200 meters from houses, into "open areas," are intended to kill, and they do kill. In this respect, nothing new happened on Wednesday morning in Gaza: The IDF has been behaving like this for months now.

But this isn't just a matter of "the IDF," "the government" or "Israel" bearing the responsibility. It must be said explicitly: The blame rests directly on people who hold official positions, flesh-and-blood human beings, and they must pay the price of their criminal responsibility for needless killing. Attorney Avigdor Klagsbald caused the death of a woman and her child without anyone imagining that he intended to hit them, but nevertheless he is sitting in prison. And what about the killers of women and children in Beit Hanun? Will they all be absolved? Will no one be tried? Will no one even be reprimanded and shunned?


GOC Southern Command Yoav Galant will say with exasperating coolness that apparently there was "a problem with the battery's targeting apparatus," without moving a facial muscle, and will that be enough? Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh will say, "The IDF is militarily responsible, but not morally responsible," and will he thus exculpate himself?

And who will bear the responsibility for the renewal of the terror attacks? Only Hamas? Who will be accused of the tumble in Israel's status and its depiction as a violent, leper state, and who will be judged for the danger that hovers over world Jewry in the wake of the IDF's acts? The electronic component that went on the blink in the radar?

No one is guilty in Israel. There is never anyone guilty in Israel. The prime minister who is responsible for the brutal policy toward the Palestinians, the defense minister who knew about and approved the bombardments, the chief of staff, the chief of command and the commander of the division who gave the orders to bombard - not one of them is guilty. They will continue with the work of killing as though nothing has happened: The sun shone, the system flourished and the ritual slaughterer slaughtered. They will continue to pursue the routine of their daily lives, accepted in society like anyone else, and remain in their posts despite the blood on their hands.

Source


As usual if you have the time. Read the talkbacks underneath the article. You will not be surprised to see the responses. Many of them basically calling him a traitor just for his honesty and candidness.


Pie

Good article, reminds us there are some brave souls in Israel speaking out against this tide of abhorrent policies and acts.

I started out quite cheered that such a voice is heard within Israel then I read the comments and realised many are not listening / will never do so.

Originally posted by Strangerous
Good article, reminds us there are some brave souls in Israel speaking out against this tide of abhorrent policies and acts.

I started out quite cheered that such a voice is heard within Israel then I read the comments and realised many are not listening / will never do so.

The shame of it is that there are a few brave souls that speak out, but if you think we get it bad when we critisize Israel here on the boards, you can imagine what a Jewish person in Israel must go through to be shamed into silence. I bet there will be about 10 accusations of being a traitor, 20 accusations of being a "self-hating jew" and about 5 accusations of being an Islamofacist supporter thrown in for good measure by Midday

Pie

I think if the UN condemnation included the Palestinians shooting rockets into Israel instigating and or continuing the problem. Then I bet the USA would be glad to issue codemnation on both sides. Don't just condem one side of the story.

Or are people unable to see Israel usually reacts to the actions of the Palestinian rockets?

Both sides need condemnationn not just Israel. Be fair, not stupid.

Originally posted by sbob
I think if the UN condemnation included the Palestinians shooting rockets into Israel instigating and or continuing the problem. Then I bet the USA would be glad to issue codemnation on both sides. Don't just condem one side of the story.

Or are people unable to see Israel usually reacts to the actions of the Palestinian rockets?

Both sides need condemnationn not just Israel. Be fair, not stupid.

They did.

The reslution stated that palestinians must stop firing rockets at Israel but for some reason America thinks that still is unfair.

Here is more info on what was veto'd:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




.

Err it did - read the link.

The US vetoed it as the US will not see any criticism of Israel or ever approve of an Arab-tabled motion. Obviously the US isn't fundamentally (geddit?) biased against Arabs but their voting record where Israel is concerned is remarkably consistent.

Israel just reacts? Recently the Palestinian rockets have killed just 2 people in Israel (and both of them Arabs). Israel has in return killed over 240 Palestinians - you may call that reacting I call it undeclared war with a pathetic justification

GAZA DEAD SINCE END OF JUNE
Total: 247 fatalities
155 civilian deaths
57 deaths of children
996 wounded, including 337 children (34%)
Source: Physicians for Human Rights (28 June to 27 Oct)

news.bbc.co.uk...

This excludes November's 'reaction'

While you're at it look at news.bbc.co.uk... and you'll see what Israel means by 'reacting to aggression'

Because the US and Israel are close allies and the US wants to try too control them our have power with them in Europe. and there is probably more reasons behind this also.

Here is another israeli rocket killing civilians this morning... Hey, how about they atleast make israel go back to military school for their ignorant hangling of their technology.

I hate the smell of charred innocence in the morning...


www.cnn.com...

I really don't like Israel or Palestine.

There was a gay pride parade in Jerusalem recently (Ironically something radical Jews and Muslims opposed EQUALLY), and they were speaking for the rights of gays and arabs in Israel. I found that interesting.

According to the article in the start of this thread, there were no condemnations made to Palestine concerning their terroistic actions against Israel.

It seems true that America backs Israel no matter what, it is the proper response to do.

When it becomes evident that the actions of Israel are wrong, or offensive rather that defensive, in that the offensive measures done for protection of the country are acceptable, and offensive measures done for other reasons are unacceptable, then America should condem Israel.

Collateral damage is something the Israel government and its people can accept for protection against a enemy. America should have the same resolve.

Originally posted by Wolfpack 51
Collateral damage is something the Israel government and its people can accept for protection against a enemy. America should have the same resolve.

So if a serial cop killer lived next door to family A, and the cops shot up their house and killed the entire family, you'd be OK with that collateral damage?

What happens when you or your loved ones are the "collateral damage"...does your opinion change?

Originally posted by IAF101
So you would rather kneel before those who threaten you than stand up to them?

No thank you!

I concur with IAF101 wholeheartedly. Israel has a right to defend itself against her insane enemies.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by carnival_of_souls2047]

Originally posted by carnival_of_souls2047

I concur with IAF101 wholeheartedly. Israel has a right to defend itself against her insane enemies.

In as much as I'm sure you would love for people to believe that. At one time they were just a bunch of Farmers, sheep & goat herders, just like any old American farmer.....something drove them insane. People just don't turn insane. Perhaps all the years of injustice is what got them that way. Just look at the Jews of Israel and know after all the years of being persecuted they are extremely insane. Violence begets violence. What you put into something is what you will get out of it. You beat a dog long enough without affection and the end result will be a mad dog.

Make that 3 of us...there seem to be a few individuals on this board who like to view life through rose colored glasses or maybe it's just blinders.

So let me see if I have this right...It's ok for Palestine to lob rockets (does it really matter that they land everywhere except where they are aimed) at Israel all day everyday, but if Israel retaliates by any definition of the word...ah hell, their not playing fair!!!

It's the disporportionate response, or their killing innocents, or Israel is just MEAN!!! argument...give me a break!

Isarael has EVERY right to use force against the Palestinians..ALL the force they can muster!!! The Palestenians know exactly what they are doing...they play the media card (better than anyone I might add) get the worlds pressess to snap a few pics of the same guy carrying around the same childs body over and over..., meanwhile they are loading up the tubes for another round.

I'm sorry folks war is hard, bloody, and yes it also generates casulties...if the Palestinians really wanted peace they would stop lobbing rockets and engage Israel in peace talks. That won't happen though, not as long as they know they have the tacit support of the Anti-Israel coalition...

Notice I did not say Anti-Semite, or Jew Hater, but rather Anti-Israel coalition...to pretend that only the support Israel side has an agenda is diingenuous at best...you know who you are!!!

It's probably because Israel has every right to defend itself against Palestinian terrorists. And that the palestinian terrorists are NOT freedom fighters, they are part of the jihadist movement against Western civilization.

Originally posted by deadbang
So let me see if I have this right...It's ok for Palestine to lob rockets (does it really matter that they land everywhere except where they are aimed) at Israel all day everyday, but if Israel retaliates by any definition of the word...ah hell, their not playing fair!!!

The people that died in the attack specifically mentioned here, were they lobbing rockets? No. Who on this thread its saying that its OK for any Palestinanians to lob rockets? Hmmm?

Why is it that when Israel kills innocent civilians that they are instantly justified because some others were attacking them?

If people in your neighborhood are killing police offers, should you suffer the same fate as them?

Tell me please, why do you think that Israeli lives are more precious than innocent civilians in Palestine?

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by deadbang

So let me see if I have this right...It's ok for Palestine to lob rockets (does it really matter that they land everywhere except where they are aimed) at Israel all day everyday, but if Israel retaliates by any definition of the word...ah hell, their not playing fair!!!

I'm sorry folks war is hard, bloody, and yes it also generates casulties...if the Palestinians really wanted peace they would stop lobbing rockets and engage Israel in peace talks. That won't happen though, not as long as they know they have the tacit support of the Anti-Israel coalition...

Notice I did not say Anti-Semite, or Jew Hater, but rather Anti-Israel coalition...to pretend that only the support Israel side has an agenda is diingenuous at best...you know who you are!!!

No-one has said that it's OK to launch rockets at anyone - did you imagine that or think we wouldn't notice?

If Israel wanted peace wouldn't they stop the lebensraum expansion? Wouldn't they stop this 10:1 retaliation policy? Wouldn't they eschew their stated policy of collective punishment? Any of those sound familiar?

Anti-Israel coalitition? Would that be the people who know brutality when they see it and refuse to be blinded by the biased aplogist media that some people suck up unquestioningly?

You may not have said it but you are seeking to infer that those of us who critcise Israel and its policies are in some way anti-semitic/jew-haters - that's just pathetic and shows you haven't bothered to actually read any of the posts - the red mist clouding your abilities?

I think we do know who we are! Do you?

Originally posted by laiguana
It's probably because Israel has every right to defend itself against Palestinian terrorists. And that the palestinian terrorists are NOT freedom fighters, they are part of the jihadist movement against Western civilization.

Did you happen to take a swig of milk to help swallow all of the BS that is in mainstreme media?

I will be as plain/blunt as one can be...

If you truly wished to know the truths about life, both sides of the story need to be addressed. Not both sides of the story that the same biased media conglamerate reveals. But the timeline of events that led to this situatuion. And that is ILLEGAL, OPPRESSIVE OCUPPATION that has forced simple-minded farmers/blacksmith/masons to become pro-active in taking their lives back. Why is this never considered when casting feeble opinions? Why isn't truth self-evident to the brain-washed?

Do you believe people really want to destroy western civilization for NO reasons? You people have been tricked into believing the hype, now the effects from our actions are actually manifesting that hype into reality, yet no one is wise to the why?

Why do you think bush & comp. want to listen to every call, profile everyone, change constitutions to make it easier to snoop? It is because they realize they created the monster and now pandoras box has been opened. Their guilt for greed is driving their motivations.

I have a better idea... let culture alone... Isreal needs to be held accountable for their oppression, propaganda, illegal occupation, and all the lives they have uprooted.

Now I am not saying the palestinians are free from guilt. I'm just not willing to dismiss their motivations and situation for fighting back.

I believe barbaric actions are misleading perceptions in general public. They see a suicide bomber blow themselves up in protest and think savage crazy people right? What esle do they have I ask? But when million dollar computer guided missils fall off track and kill 18 civilians, it just lacks the savage barbaric feel and people general accpet it. Why is this?

Open yourself to the truth.

AAC



[edit on 12-11-2006 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by Jamuhn

If people in your neighborhood are killing police offers, should you suffer the same fate as them?

Tell me please, why do you think that Israeli lives are more precious than innocent civilians in Palestine?

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Jamuhn]

Jamuhn, Those were really ignorant comments to make...and I love the way you and others ALWAYS automatically assume that since I and others don't agree with you...well then I must love killing babies...idiot!

First off, people in MY neighborhood don't shoot at cops...when you shoot at cops you know what happens...they call their buddies and then they come kick your ass...if those same cops that you and yours are shooting at happen to have access to superior weapons..it could be that some other people are gonna get hurt...but you know what...at the end of the day...IT"S YOUR FAULT FOR SHOOTING AT THE COPS!!!

Second...Where in my paragraphs did I say that Israeli lives were more important than Palestinians lives...dont put words in my mouth. All lives are sacred...maybe if the "freedom fighters" would come out from behind their women and children...the casulty rate for civilians in Palestine would go down...