Why Is The Vatican Asking for a Reprieve Of Saddam Hussein?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The Vatican has yet to recognize the Nation of Israel. That should tell you something.

I have to correct your statement regarding the Vatican's recognition of the State of Israel. The Vatican recognized Israel as a nation/state on December 30th, 1993.

The Israel-Vatican Agreement

On December 30, 1993, the Holy See and Israel signed an accord considered by all to be unique and historic. It was not only a question of an agreement establishing relations between the Vatican and the State of Israel, but also a change in the long, tortuous, and painful relations between two great religions, Catholicism and Judaism. www.jcpa.org...

The Vatican's delay in recognizing Israel has often been raised as some sort of example of Catholic anti-semitism. In all actuality, there were many issues of diplomacy that needed to be worked out between the Vatican and Israel in the precarious framework of Middle Eastern Politics

In 1992, the Vatican and Israel agreed to agree. Negotiators set to work to hammer out terms of recognition. They prepared a text in Hebrew and English. On this day, December 30, 1993,the Vatican and Israel signed the Fundamental Agreement Between the Holy See and the State of Israel.

Naturally, the church wanted to protect church property and traditional sacred spots. In the most awesome event of history, God became man and walked dusty paths and stony streets in a little mideastern nation. Sacred spots marked the events of his life. The Vatican also wanted to protect the rights of Christians, and its own freedom to teach and train Christians. The articles granted these objectives.

Both parties promised to uphold human freedom and the right to worship. Both deplored anti-Semitism. Israel agreed to maintain the "status quo" on places of worship that belonged to the Roman Church. Scholarly exchanges and exchanges of ancient manuscripts were encouraged. The church was allowed to carry on its charitable and moral works and to own property in Israel. chi.gospelcom.net...

The Vatican's position as a religious state often pits political interests against religious ones in the "game" of global politics. What might seem to be clear cut and dried from a religious aspect often has political repercussions and vice versa. What, on the surface, might appear to be a form of anti-semitism really has to do with matters that have nothing to do with antisemitism. Instead, politics and the protection of a nations' "interests" often come into play as they seemed to in this particular case.

It was the Romans and the Jews who conspired against Christ...
so the Romans and the Jews decided to kiss and make up after the disagreements that took place almost immediately after Jesus' resurrection...

The Romans are aware that Christ is coming soon. The Jews, being the chosen people, aren't necessarily privy to that information... so the Roman church decides to play nice with the Jews to ensure they aren't going to be doing any kinda converting.

The Romans -no, THE ROMAN hisself, is doing whatever he can to prepare for the time to come.

The Great Deceiver has already giving power to those who need to deceive in order to carry out their plans.
If our government is as good at lying as it is... then imagine how good the Lord of Lies is!

The Catholic church is almost certainly run by Deception. However, that does not necessarily mean that "catholics" who understand the truth about the Bible will not be saved; for I happen to know catholics who know better than to worship the saints or Mary; that know better than to worship idols and believe in Satan Clause and to refer to anyone other than God or their own father as Father and to confess in fellowship instead of in secret and the list goes on... here in Saratoga Springs, New York, there are actually many non-denominational churches with former catholics and former protestants who have come together in the Truth and they call themselves "Bible" churches. (let's face it, the word Protestant itself signifies a sin - for the government, including the Vatican, would have no power unless it was granted the power by God) -- so the rebels and the deceived have awaken and come together to love eachother as the Lord teaches. This is the only way... Salvation and Love. Whatever you may believe, rapture or not pre-trib post-trib lalala who cares -- the bottom line is, whenever we get to Heaven is FINE AS LONG AS IT MEANS STAYING OUT OF HELL-- I'd rather be fellowshipping with God in His Kingdom and thanking Jesus for eternity rather than being dead for 1000 years and all my sins being shouted from a rooftop during the Great White Throne Judgement, regardless of the consequences I'll suffer in the flesh.
Praise Him.
The Lord is Great!!!
Amen

originally posted by Benevolentyrant
I have to correct your statement regarding the Vatican's recognition of the State of Israel. The Vatican recognized Israel as a nation/state on December 30th, 1993.


External Source

The Israel-Vatican Agreement

On December 30, 1993, the Holy See and Israel signed an accord considered by all to be unique and historic. It was not only a question of an agreement establishing relations between the Vatican and the State of Israel, but also a change in the long, tortuous, and painful relations between two great religions, Catholicism and Judaism. www.jcpa.org...

Benevolent,one thing I have noticed about "Sun Matrix" is that when it comes to Christians being held accountable for their history,he wants no part of it. He always transfers blame in a place where it is lacking. I've become accustomed to it.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Sun MatrixL can you reference where, exactly, the Koran says to take over the world for Allah? (how can anyone take over God's world when God created it and it is HIS?)

Correction: the Jews aren't God's 'chosen' people. Isreal is God's elect. Not semantics.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Let me ask you all something. If your whole family was wiped out by this man, save yourself, could you ever forgive this man? Answer honestly,please.

Nope. Given that scenario, and the opportunity, I'd hunt him down and strangle him with his own intestines. And I think a good number of his victims' families in Iraq feel the same way.

But it isn't any kind of surprise that the Vatican would be against his execution. Any other stance would be in direct opposition to everything they espouse. Anyone expect them to say "We're 100% totally against capital punishment and believe every life is a sacred gift from God. Except for Saddam's."

>Contradiction Warning<

I also do not believe any State should be given the authority to execute a criminal. I don't believe capital punishment should be an option. But of all the things I lose sleep over, Hussein's execution isn't going to be one of them.

Originally posted by yeahright
I also do not believe any State should be given the authority to execute a criminal. I don't believe capital punishment should be an option.

What would you propose us to do. Continue supporting them? You see, there is a conuundrum in stating that one doesn't believe in the death penalty. I don't like the death penalty,not because I think it is wrong, but because I don't see it as a deterrent at all.

However, what is the alternative? Give them life imprisonment and have to continue, as a society, to feed them? I don't think that is fair to society. What are they contributing?

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

He without sin cast the first stone.
The vatican, of them all, knows that they should be lynched with Saddam.

Perhaps they want to show mercy as they wish to have it to?

Peace

Dalen

Errm quite simple I thought.
Isn,t it because the Roman Catholic religion is supposed to practise forgiveness?
You know? The whole turn the other cheek thing?

I,ve never been in church since playing Johnny B Good on the pipe organ

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
No I don't remember that. I do remember the Roman Empire under Constantine the high priest of pagan sun worship taking control of the Christian movement and operating the Roman empire in the name of Christians. In the name of Christians they have killed the Jews, Gods chose people.

Well then... go to Wikipedia and search for the crusades. Perhaps you will get your memory back on the violent history of the Christian religion. To deny it is to exist in ignorance.

Why is it that people love to drudge up events that happened 1,000 years ago as proof that Christianity is evil.

Agent_T, yeah, Christians are supposed to practice the whole "turn the other cheek" routine, but... how often do you see it happen?

Anyway, I think the issue I have here is that I don't think it is so much that the Vatican is practicing the technique of "turning the other cheek," which they don't have jurisdiction to do for the Iraqi people anyway, but it has more to do with the presumption that Hussein only got the death penalty because that's what America wanted. The Vatican,of late, has taken a rather cold shoulder to anything they deem America as having a part in.

Originally posted by dAlen
He without sin cast the first stone.
The vatican, of them all, knows that they should be lynched with Saddam.

Perhaps they want to show mercy as they wish to have it to?

Peace

Dalen

wow, baseless accusations now...

i'm not trying to defend the vatican, or any other religious institution, but give some evidence when you say people deserve to be hanged

I don't know if it's been mentioned but maybe it's because if Saddam is killed he'll be viewed as a martyr. That seems to be a very powerful and respected thing in the world of Islam Being left alive as a prisoner, in solitary confinement for the rest of his life is definately not as powerful as martyrdom.

Originally posted by dbates
Why is it that people love to drudge up events that happened 1,000 years ago as proof that Christianity is evil.

Why is it that people in general,not only Christians, don't want to face their past? Be held accountable?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

What would you propose us to do. Continue supporting them? You see, there is a conuundrum in stating that one doesn't believe in the death penalty. I don't like the death penalty,not because I think it is wrong, but because I don't see it as a deterrent at all.

I don't think the food bill for all the prisoners on death row is all that high. I'm sure we piss away more money on junkets for congress. If money is the issue, then we need to stop incarcerating the people who commit "victimless" crimes. Quit futzing around with these stupid drug laws and free up all the space and money you'd ever need for housing the truly incorrigible.

What about the people released from death row, or prison, who were found to be innocent? What about all the people who have been executed and later found to have been innocent? What do you say to them? Oops? There's not a foolproof way to prove guilt 100% of the time, or a fair and equitable way to administer the punishment. It's unfair and discriminatory in practice. It's irrevocable. It's barbaric. It isn't a deterrent (as you astutely observe). In a society that strives to be enlightened and civilized, it serves no purpose, other than to play to the lowest and debased characteristics of our nature (which I have in spades). Life in prison with no possibility of parole is punishment aplenty. IMO.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

wow, baseless accusations now...

i'm not trying to defend the vatican, or any other religious institution, but give some evidence when you say people deserve to be hanged

Is the death of 3 million Iraqi citizens enough "base" for you?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dAlen
He without sin cast the first stone.
The vatican, of them all, knows that they should be lynched with Saddam.

Perhaps they want to show mercy as they wish to have it to?

Peace

Dalen

wow, baseless accusations now...

i'm not trying to defend the vatican, or any other religious institution, but give some evidence when you say people deserve to be hanged

Truth is, I dont think people should kill each other.
This is another case of look past the words to the idea they are pointing to.

Maybe this will help explain it.
Every goverment creates and participates in atrocities, vatican is no different then a government for religion. Someone mentioned move on in history...I did, and see that evangelicals love to kill muslims in the name of Christ.

Anyway, just comments.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by dbates
Why is it that people love to drudge up events that happened 1,000 years ago as proof that Christianity is evil.

Why is it that people in general,not only Christians, don't want to face their past? Be held accountable?

True...but the past continues even into today.
Some things never change...the crusades continue...led by the zionist (christians, jews, whoever holds that mentality and agenda)

Zionism = sorcery= manipulation

Peace

Dalen

Look,I am not saying that I believe that Saddam or anyone else should be put to death. I would just like to know what the Vatican and all other anti-death penalty proponents would suggest that we do with them.

Something that Yeahright said, reminds me of something that I have said for quite sometime. I used to work for the prison system so I kind of know what I am talking about here.Yeahright, said that we need to quit incarcerating victimless crimes. I totally agree. I have never been able to understand how someone can get 20 years for a "rock" and a murderer only get 1 year. Yeah that does happen because I had a brother in law who was shot and killed and the sorry %$#^&#@ only received 1 freakin year!!

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Maybe Pope Benadryl xvi is just trying to make up for putting his foot in it with his last few ''inflammatory'' statements then