The cut and run Democrats

Originally posted by intrepid


I was reading in the paper this morning that the Dem's haven't controlled Congress in 12 years and the presidency have been Rep. since 2000. How can you blame dem.s for the above if they haven't been in power?

You know as well as I do that the dems hold plenty of power in both houses. No bill is coming out of the senate without republicans having to give the democrats what they want.

The vote on Tuesday will determine if the “tax the rich” philosophy gives the dems more power to carry it out. If the dems win enough seats the workers will get to see how much more their taxes will increase---some as early as next year.

Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by intrepid


I was reading in the paper this morning that the Dem's haven't controlled Congress in 12 years and the presidency have been Rep. since 2000. How can you blame dem.s for the above if they haven't been in power?

You know as well as I do that the dems hold plenty of power in both houses. No bill is coming out of the senate without republicans having to give the democrats what they want.

No, I don't know that. I DO know that the Rep's have the majority VOTE though. So what you are saying isn't the fact.

I'm still waiting on Sleeper to support his claims with the tiniest shred of evidence. While we're waiting I think the following bit of information is both relevant to his criticisms and illuminating:

Consider the scorecard. During Clinton's two terms, the median income for American families increased by a solid 15% after inflation, according to Census Bureau figures. But it rose even faster for African Americans (33%) and Hispanics (24%) than it did for whites (14%).

The growth was so widely shared that from 1993 through 1999, families in the bottom fifth of the income distribution saw their incomes increase faster than those in the top 5%. By comparison, under President Reagan in the 1980s, those in the top 5% increased their income more than five times faster than the bottom 20%.

[sarcasm]Yeah, those Dems are really sticking it to the middle and lower classes.[/sarcasm]

There is no argument that dems will spend billions of tax dollars to fund absurd studies that the average American doesn’t have the time or desire to read through.

Regression... how about addressing the points made in my post.. you know, the link that clearly blows holes right through your theory about Dems being the party that is always raising taxes, more so than republicans.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by zoopnfunk]



Mod Edit to apply external quote code, please review this link


[edit on 7-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

To me it looks like these guys ( www.cpusa.org... ) are supporting the Democrats.

Something to make you go huh.

Roper

Originally posted by Roper
To me it looks like these guys ( www.cpusa.org... ) are supporting the Democrats.

Something to make you go huh.

Roper

Good point,

Let’s see, democrats hate capitalism, communist hate capitalism. Socialist tolerates capitalism, but they want to control it as if they own it. Not much difference between Socialist, Communist and democrats.

Communism is the party of the envious people, they envy what they are not willing to work for or create. Many democrats fit that description.

People usually get what they deserve and vote for---look at all those happy Cubans.

They have free medical---well it has to be free because none of them have any money. Castro is not stupid he has to keep his flocks’ healthy---who else is going to keep him and his cronies taken care at the palace?

Originally posted by sleeper
Good point,

Let’s see, democrats hate capitalism, communist hate capitalism. Socialist tolerates capitalism, but they want to control it as if they own it. Not much difference between Socialist, Communist and democrats.

Communism is the party of the envious people, they envy what they are not willing to work for or create. Many democrats fit that description.

People usually get what they deserve and vote for---look at all those happy Cubans.

They have free medical---well it has to be free because none of them have any money. Castro is not stupid he has to keep his flocks’ healthy---who else is going to keep him and his cronies taken care at the palace?

Boy, that diversion came just in time so that you didn't have to address the last 2 points.

BTW, do Cuban's vote? I though it was a dictatorship, not a democracy.

Originally posted by intrepid


BTW, do Cuban's vote? I though it was a dictatorship, not a democracy.

They voted with their weapons and replaced a bad regime with Satan himself. To each their own I guess.

Actually, you can't say 'cut and run' without also throwing 'appeasement' in there somewhere. The two kind of go together, in order for the argument to have the desired effect. It's all about the emotion, not the facts. For extra points, blame Clinton for something!

Also, one my new favorite catchphrases that they have been trying out on FOX is 'before the ink was dry' (in reference to how Clinton allowed North Korea to obtain a nuclear weapon). I hear it fairly often, but I think it's going to take a while for it to catch on. I think it's going to be popular, though. It's catchy, and easy for people to understand (without getting bogged down in boring specifics and whatnot).

Let’s see, democrats hate capitalism

If your statement were true then why in the hell would Clinton sign NAFTA? Seriously though, are you actually interested in having a serious discussion or are you just hear to spout talking points and party specific one liners? If all you are interested in doing here is making blanket statements like the one above while dodging the counter points you should stop wasting our time.

Seriously though, how about addressing some of the points that don't amount to anything more than a digression from the topic we were discussion (though you've changed it a few times already).

As for the endorsement issue -- I could dredge up all sorts of unflattering endorsements for the GOP, beggining with the KKK - but I really don't see what type of purpose that sort of thing is going to serve here.

Originally posted by zoopnfunk


If your statement were true then why in the hell would Clinton sign NAFTA? .

NAFTA was the one saving grace about Clinton, and I don’t disparage Clinton as much as most including the democrats who have yet to forgive him because of NAFTA.

You will need a better argument that that one.

Seriously though, how about addressing some of the points that don't amount to anything more than a digression from the topic we were discussion (though you've changed it a few times already).

You just want to lead this dance, but like I’ve told my wife I don’t like to dance.

As for the endorsement issue -- I could dredge up all sorts of unflattering endorsements for the GOP, beggining with the KKK - but I really don't see what type of purpose that sort of thing is going to serve here.

Comparing the infantile KKK to Communism is like comparing the boy scouts to the US military.

Again do you have something I could chew on besides baby food?

I don’t like to dance but if I have to I can tango.

I've noticed something in some states, Conservative Democrats running for Senate and House seats. Pro-gun, pro-life, I see hope but Nancy P. as Speaker scares the hell out of me.

BTW, if the Demorats take the House, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan will still be funded.

Roper

NAFTA was the one saving grace about Clinton, and I don’t disparage Clinton as much as most including the democrats who have yet to forgive him because of NAFTA.

You will need a better argument that that one.

Whoa! Wait a minute... I'm not the one making the outrageous claims here. You stated that Democrats hate capitalism and there is simply no evidence to support that claim. It is off the wall crazy -- if anything you should be offering piles of evidence to support your claim. Somehow, I doubt you will even supply so much as a single example of how a prominant Democrat hates capitalism.

Comparing the infantile KKK to Communism is like comparing the boy scouts to the US military.

I wasn't attempting to compare the KKK to Communism. What I wanted to do is to draw your attention to the possibility that just because a party is endorsed by a group does not mean they agree on everything, even their primary tenants.

The kkk probably endorses a number of Republican candidates not because they are overtly racist, but because they agree with them on certain policy issues that are close to their political bent. It isn't suprising to see some Communists coming out in support of Democrats -- they are both on the left end of the political spectrum and we have an extreme right wing administration. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

If I wanted to make a more apt comparison I could have used fascism -- but that wasn't really my intention.

Again do you have something I could chew on besides baby food?

I offered up NAFTA even though you are the one making extradinary claims in this thread and NAFTA is a pretty darn good example of Democrats embracing Capitalism -- a far cry from hating it.

That makes one more example than you have been able to provide in reference to ANY of your claims in this thread. Wow... that is pretty sad when you think about it.

Originally posted by sleeper

Will have our troops fleeing from Iraq with their tails between their legs. The rest of the world will applaud that sign of weakness because it will prove that America is just like them, nothing but sheep.

Should we keep sacrifiying our soldiers to the a war that should never has been.

Perhaps you should tell that to the 3000 death soldiers families that will never get to see their love ones smiling again.

Specially when the war in Iraq is not only a war based on lies but also a war that has not justification at all.

BTW are you serving in the military?

Originally posted by zoopnfunk

If I wanted to make a more apt comparison I could have used fascism -- but that wasn't really my intention.

Most people don’t even know what fascism was or even means. I was born in Italy and before the war fascism meant jobs for those who belonged to the party. Those that had jobs ate and survived to live another day those that didn’t starved to death. So fascism was popular.

After Italy was defeated and humiliated, what was left of the people and the country booted the fascist out and put in the communist.

We moved to American after the war. My dad as were most men in Italy was a black shirt fascist.

He never really lost that indoctrination which was drilled into while he was a boy growing up in fascist Italy.

In American he embraced the Democratic Party---it was a shoe in for a former fascist. In my old neighborhood the democrats where known as the machine, and they were feared as were Mussolini’s fascist before the war. They intimidated voters into voting for democrats.

I offered up NAFTA even though you are the one making extradinary claims in this thread and NAFTA is a pretty darn good example of Democrats embracing Capitalism -- a far cry from hating it.

Show me a democrat who favors NAFTA, do you?

I know that there are democrats that are Capitalist, as a republican I agree with many issues that are from the democrats, that’s why I call myself a moderate. Likewise moderate democrats understand the value of Capitalism, however, the grassroots democrats could careless about capitalism, they only want to be taken care of, that’s why socialism and communism appeals to them.

Originally posted by marg6043

Should we keep sacrifiying our soldiers to the a war that should never has been.

In case you haven’t noticed we don’t live in a perfect world, when we stop fighting for what we believe in, in our case democracy, we will live under someone else’s belief system. I have no desire to say my prayers while looking towards Mecca.

Under democrats we may stop fighting our enemies but our enemies will not stop fighting us.

Perhaps you should tell that to the 3000 death soldiers families that will never get to see their love ones smiling again.

If we lose the war in Iraq there will be millions more families killed, not only soldiers.

Specially when the war in Iraq is not only a war based on lies but also a war that has not justification at all.

That only proves that the propaganda machine supporting our enemies is working, you and many million others have swallowed those lies hook, line, and sinker.

BTW are you serving in the military?

I served during the Vietnam war.

Sleeper you served durring the Vietnam War-Sounds like your drill seargent drilled a little too much into your head. Have you actually researched half the things you've said in this thread? THe govt. can control more or less what factions of the population they increase taxes on. With republicans you get them protecting their buddies and personal interests by supporting the rich and not taxing them in proportion to what they tax the middle class specifically. Many people argue that they are doing this to eliminate the middle class. It's a well used formula to create a country that is controlled 2% of the ultra elitist rich, and 98% poverty level virtual slaves who can't fight back because the govt' stole all their money and then squandered it on BS.

Welcome to corporate controlled america.

Not all Democrats hate Capitalism. So say that is just imature and really desperate. A good example of a democrate who loves capitalism is my boss. She makes around 1.8 million in personal profit each quarter. She is voting down the line democrate this november 7th. She also believes that this country needs a little more balance regarding the distribution of wealth. And uses alot of her personal money on local pilanthropic work. None of it in the companies name or with the companies money. No personal gain to be had just a peace of mind.

The democrats at least this time around understand that we need to rejuvinate the middle class or our country will go down quicker than a raver on extacy.

The whole world thinks that we are complete idiots and rightfully so for going into Iraq. We had NO buisness there. the war on terrorism is NOT in Iraq, it's just convienient for them to distract us there long enough to stage real attack here in our mainland. ever thought of that? Because the tactical genius' in the current administration did not-even though it's the oldest trick in the book. Obvious our current commander hasn't read any books on strategy. Can he read at all? I know he didn't even take the time to read his own daddies books, and he seemed to be struggling with 'my pet goat.'

Democrats understand that we need to have a plan to win the war. They are just the ones that are actually willing to look at our options and re deploy soldiers in a more effective manner. Ask yourself this. What is GB secret plan to win the war. I shure hope it's not similar to the secret plan nixon came up with. You seem to be unwittingly following the same path you did when you were in vietnam. Supporting a president who has lied to you, is thinking of new ways to decieve you as we speak, and will lie and use you again in the future. I'm sorry you have chosen to be another victim of this stratagy. You will suffer for it yet again in your life time. However you could always vote democratic and give the future a chance instead of repeating the pasts mistakes.

Originally posted by sleeper

In case you haven’t noticed we don’t live in a perfect world, when we stop fighting for what we believe in,

And what we believe in? may I ask, what does Iraq had to do with our safety? So is OK to destroy a country because what you said we believe in? destroying countries that is what you mean.

Or greed, power and profits? for the Iraqi oil. I got it.

If we lose the war in Iraq there will be millions more families killed, not only soldiers.

I ask again what war are we fighting in Iraq you mean the war for control of the Iraqi oil?

That is what you mean? because before invading that country, Iraqi people were oppressed but they were not our enemy.

That only proves that the propaganda machine supporting our enemies is working, you and many million others have swallowed those lies hook, line, and sinker.

What enemies? The Iraqi people? since when the Iraqi people are our enemies.

Who made them our enemies? yes you are right the propaganda machine has obfuscated your sense of understanding I see.

Iraqis are not our enemy, they were not enemies during Saddam and they just became our enemies when the present administration decided to play hero

Funny I wonder do you believe that Saddam and Iraqis were the ones that attacked our nation on 9/11? because the way you post your justifications it seems that you are very confused.

Originally posted by marg6043


Or greed, power and profits? for the Iraqi oil. I got it.

It wasn’t for greed or power, after you people use the same words a billion times you would think you might get original and find some other words.

Actually we want their oil for you marg, we are willing to kill as many people as necessary so that your car marg will not run out of gas. Or if you don’t have a car it’s for the bus or train, or whatever you use to get around in. Are you happy now, we kill for your convenience.

But have you ever once said thanks?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Sleeper you served durring the Vietnam War-Sounds like your drill seargent drilled a little too much into your head. Have you actually researched half the things you've said in this thread? THe govt. can control more or less what factions of the population they increase taxes on. With republicans you get them protecting their buddies and personal interests by supporting the rich and not taxing them in proportion to what they tax the middle class specifically. Many people argue that they are doing this to eliminate the middle class. It's a well used formula to create a country that is controlled 2% of the ultra elitist rich, and 98% poverty level virtual slaves who can't fight back because the govt' stole all their money and then squandered it on BS.

Who ever told you that you were going to be turned into a slave---I would not listen to them any more---does you mother know about the weirdoes you are hanging out with?

Welcome to corporate controlled america.

You mean free enterprise? Sorry to tell you this but that is what American is all about, did you just fall off the turnip truck or something?

Not all Democrats hate Capitalism. So say that is just imature and really desperate. A good example of a democrate who loves capitalism is my boss. She makes around 1.8 million in personal profit each quarter. She is voting down the line democrate this november 7th. She also believes that this country needs a little more balance regarding the distribution of wealth. And uses alot of her personal money on local pilanthropic work. None of it in the companies name or with the companies money. No personal gain to be had just a peace of mind.

Yeah that is great about 90% of corporations and rich individuals do as much if not more, the only difference is that they do not tell everyone about how great they are like your boss does---maybe she likes the attention.

The democrats at least this time around understand that we need to rejuvinate the middle class or our country will go down quicker than a raver on extacy.

You need to let your mother know you are hanging out with some strange people if they got you to believe the middle class in America is in trouble. Have they tried to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge yet---tell them no!

The whole world thinks that we are complete idiots and rightfully so for going into Iraq. We had NO buisness there. the war on terrorism is NOT in Iraq, it's just convienient for them to distract us there long enough to stage real attack here in our mainland. ever thought of that? Because the tactical genius' in the current administration did not-even though it's the oldest trick in the book. Obvious our current commander hasn't read any books on strategy. Can he read at all? I know he didn't even take the time to read his own daddies books, and he seemed to be struggling with 'my pet goat.'

There is a large part of the population that is not the sharpest pencil in the drawer, but they are not the ones you think.

Democrats understand that we need to have a plan to win the war.

The democrats have a plan all right---but flushing America and the rest of the world down the drain is not what I call a good plan.

Originally posted by sleeper

It wasn’t for greed or power, after you people use the same words a billion times you would think you might get original and find some other words.

But have you ever once said thanks?

You know I am trying to understand your point of view here, you know.

And you are asking me thanks for what?

Let me tell you something, my husband is a retired marine he served 22 years.

I never knew my grandfather because he died in world war 2, My father served in Korea and lost a brother in the same war.

Then he lost another brother during Vietnam.

My brother served in the Navy,

Yes I have a lots of thanks to give away, see.

I Thank you too for been in the military once.

Still I will like to understand your point of view.