The Lawless One Revealed

Originally posted by Terral
We disagree. Jesus means “Iesous (# 2424) means “Jehovah is Salvation.” Studying the meanings of Biblical Hebrew and Greek names can reveal much and add to the character and flavor of God’s Word. Satan’s name “Satanas” (#4567) means “Adversary.”

I don't disagree with you in that studying a name can reveal the intent of the namer, which is a very valuable piece of information. But I also think that it's an error to put your faith in a word, a set of isomorphic characters. I think it's much more worth while to put your faith in the actual entity that the word is labeling.

Terral is my real name and I could not imagine using another. You could have helped things by choosing a smaller one. : 0 )

Call me E. Heck...call me anything you want as long as you respond. It's just a label.

...calling each other certain names gets us warnings and the boot right out of here.

I would argue that it's not the name that gets you kicked out...it's the intent. Combinations of letters don't get people in trouble...it's attempts to humiliate and offend that get people in trouble. The letters are simply tools that are employed to an end.

Originally posted by HarpStrings
There is The Law of Moses delivered from G_d for ALL mankind, old and new etc etc..and then there are the Liviticus laws for the earlier people (creation) to know wrong from right. The Law I'm referring to is The Ten Commandments. Once Yeshua 'came' He became that Law, He is The Law. No one can get to the Father YHWH, except through the Son, Yeshua.

If you read the commentaries of the old rabbis, you'll find that the 10 commandments are not actually laws but branches into which the law is divided. And there's more than 10 of them.

I'm attempting to bring to light for you the how and the why His name was removed and replaced.

I'd love to be enlightened, but so far you haven't said which name got removed and which name was replaced and when it happened and so on and so forth. You've just repeated this statement without proof or explaination.

You can research as well through the history or His-story and you will have the answers to your questions.

I have. Now I want YOU to explain. This "you can research" sounds like you didn't do your own homework.

you must seek Him, ask Him for Truth. If you do not, then I or anyone could talk to you/write to you His Truth, but you will NEVER understand it without His Spirit. Thus proclaiming His name.

These are wonderfully uplifting words, but they mean nothing. "There's laws but you have to understand them in your heart and if you don't come to the same conclusion that I came to, then you don't understand them in your heart."

If I sound cranky, I've had some experience with cults and preachers who later were cast out. They all had the same message that you bring.

Originally posted by Essedarius

I'm confused...you will know that they are not He because of their NAME, or because of their thoughts? Doesn't Yeshua Messiah speak of peace, love, and harmony?

Do get confused. Stay on the same page and you will understand fully! Of course Yeshua wants love above all else. He came first riding a donkey and teaching to those who wanted to hear Him. But now that He has arisen and coming back He is not happy with mankind. He knows this. He tells us this in His Word. That is because so many of His sheep sold the Truth for nought thus many people bought into another gospel all together. If we knew Him to begin with, we would have never fallen for Satans tricks-but not only did man fall, he also promoted most of them and continues to do so today.

In other words the savior we loved and knew Jesus, is an impostor by identity and the Roman empire set it up this way FOR Satan/anti-christ(s)

YES.

That's where we really really disagree. Imposters get put on an altar all the time. If Jesus was a Roman shill, I simply don't believe that his fake religion would have survived the 3rd century, much less the 13th, even less the 21st.

Then the bible prophesy(s) means what to you?

Originally posted by frayed1
I believe I understand some of this theory, and have seen similar ideas before.....

It isn't theory at all. It is only a theory if you are blinded or surpressed into thinking this way.

The Roman empire was definitely in the midst of the beginning of the opening of the seals. That is where Satan was able to really begin taking root. The people were not necessarily 'bad' as today the same applies. True worship of the One Father YHWH cannot happen for people who continue to remain captive by Satan. That is why a falling away has to happen to "SEE" who the lawless one is. How can you see if you are still in the darkness? Falling away means come out of bondage and into Him Yeshua Messiah and He will show you what He wants you to do and give you many gifts in return. Place the Father YHWH above all others, whether that is religion, theories, people or yourself, when you do this, you will then naturally begin removing all the barriers that have been placed before Him.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

I'd love to be enlightened, but so far you haven't said which name got removed and which name was replaced and when it happened and so on and so forth. You've just repeated this statement without proof or explaination.

If I sound cranky, I've had some experience with cults and preachers who later were cast out. They all had the same message that you bring.

Seek Him and you will be blessed. I've stated MUCH. Go back and read through the posts up to now. (I know when things are moving fast or people are posting on top of one another, it's easy to miss something you need for understanding.) I do not want to become repetative and I have to apologize if it appears I've done this to you. The Holy Spirit sometimes works this way to bring you to understanding of something. Like a child, it may seem we are behind them all the days saying the same things-we are trying to reach them at the right time.

If the Truth seems cultish to you,then I'd suggest you pray for the Holy Spirit to come upon you. The church has done a fine job of keeping people from knowing the Truth. We learn at a young age how to know that if it doesn't line up with your religion, it has to be a cult. How twisted is that? Are there cults out there, in the world? YES. Is Yeshua Messiah the leader?? If so, then I guess I'm a member!

Originally posted by HarpStrings
It isn't theory at all. It is only a theory if you are blinded or surpressed into thinking this way.

Careful now Harp.

Don't ask people to swallow what you're serving without chewing a few times.
That would be just plain rude.

And...I have to admit...I'm having a hard time following exactly what you're saying.

To clarify...

1)
You mention seals. You believe that the seals that are mentioned in the book of Revelation have already begun to be opened?

2)
You believe that Jesus of Nazareth from the New Testament was a heretic pawn of the Roman government?

3)
You believe that Yeshua Messiah is God...as in the Jewish God of the Old Testament?

I just want to be sure that I understand where you're coming from.

Originally posted by Essedarius

Originally posted by HarpStrings
It isn't theory at all. It is only a theory if you are blinded or surpressed into thinking this way.

Careful now Harp.

Don't ask people to swallow what you're serving without chewing a few times.
That would be just plain rude.

And...I have to admit...I'm having a hard time following exactly what you're saying.

To clarify...

1)
You mention seals. You believe that the seals that are mentioned in the book of Revelation have already begun to be opened?

2)
You believe that Jesus of Nazareth from the New Testament was a heretic pawn of the Roman government?

3)
You believe that Yeshua Messiah is God...as in the Jewish God of the Old Testament?

I just want to be sure that I understand where you're coming from.

I've guided her back to chew on what I've been writing. I did state to go back and read all of the posts. It might seem I'm in a rush and I might actually be rushing people who want to listen, into the arms of Yeshua Messiah and out of the pit of deception-for a reason.

The first seal was opened when a worthy one appeared. Which is the Lamb, Yeshua Messiah who shed his blood for mankind. Once He arose from hades/death, He became the only living creature worthy enough to open the Book.
So once He arose and went to the Heavenly realm/Spiritual Body he opened the first seal. That was over 2000 years ago.

Jesus is a false name used by and for the son of perdition. Satan cannot claim the name of Yeshua Messiah, he knew this, therefore he had to use another name to carry out his plan-do you know what Satans plan was/is? The Scriptures guide us to understanding this and more.

No Yeshua is Messiah who died for our ultimate salvation, He is NOT G_d YHWH. G_d is The Father, no one comes to the Father except through Yeshua Messiah. Satan is copying this. AS no one comes to the father of lies except through Jesus Christ. Satan is stealing Yeshuas identity but only under a false name and false doctrine/teaching. Satan is the image, not the real thing. He is a replicator and deceiver.

We are coming to the end of the 5th seal thus the 6th seal is about to be opened by The Holy Messiah Himself. I will go into this further later.....I must go for now
Anyone can email me anytime as well!

Originally posted by dbates
I guess I'm not following you exactly HarpStrings. I feel like we're arguing the same side, but I'm missing one of the points your making obviously. How does the use of the name Jesus Christ allow Satan to decieve?

There was no 'J' when my LORD walked in Yehoshua among us. No J!

J's are hooks! J's are the mortal hooks in the 666. Vav is the 6th letter and it is the hook! Don't be hooked!

These are the hidden ones: I, E, O, U and sometimes Y
These are the revealed ones: A and sometimes Y

There is no J!
In Greek Y is I.

Are you saying he will appear using that name, and that He (Satan) can not use the name "Yehoshua Messiah"

Satan doesn't even have a name we know - Satan not a name - And yes - the name Jesus Christ might have already been used. In your local church every SunDay which is not Sabbath day. Rest in God, not in man!

What about the use of the terms "Lord" and "God"?

The LORD is your master - your guide - your fortress.
GOD is your good orderly direction.
Use as indicated.

Should we say "YAHWEH" or the Tetragrammaton YHVH?

Neither are necessary! Yahweh is almost like a bad word in my mouth! Who made that name up? No one knows! And the tetragrammaton is just 'I AM' anyway.

I AM is quite easy to type and remember. But just say 'my LORD' or 'God' or whatever you want, really! But just use them correctly. It is not about choice but rather about precision and intent. Mistakes are unavoidable and God truly has no name in any man's heart - He hears all hearts call to Him - HE KNOWS. So it really doesn't matter except that we keep it REAL.

Keep it real, baby - just like Flavor Flav.....

Originally posted by HarpStrings
It might seem I'm in a rush and I might actually be rushing people who want to listen, into the arms of Yeshua Messiah and out of the pit of deception-for a reason.

Just a little advice from somebody who doesn't know a lot about anything: When it comes to religion, rushing translates as desperation. State your case...let God handle any necessary "rush jobs."

Jesus is a false name used by and for the son of perdition.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've never used that name by and for the son of perdition. I use it for the Son of God who died just so that a loser like me has a shot at hanging out with him some day. I love that name and it makes me feel happy and confident in my darkest moments.

You choose to use Yeshua Messiah to refer to that same Son of God. That's cool. It's just a name. No use crossing swords over semantics, right?

no one comes to the father of lies except through Jesus Christ.

I would like to put forward the above phrase as "Exhibit A" for our conversation as to why you are confusing so many people. What you have implied above is that the man that died on the cross 2000 years ago did so as a tool of Satan. I understand that you are not claiming that...but that is what people will read it as, because we as humans will default to the popular usage of a word.

My point: It is you who have hijacked the name of Jesus and are attempting to turn it in to something ugly.

Again, the name Jesus represents a very specific thing to the majority of the people on this earth. You can't just come running in and say that it means something else.

It doesn't...it's a WORD, a symbol, and symbols work by popular vote...that's a fact. (Just ask all the Buddhists that have been trying to re-acquire ownership of the swastika for the past 40 years.)

Originally posted by dbates
Paul was a Pharisee amount Pharisees, meaning he probably new the Law better than most.

A true pharisee (not a Fair I see) which is one who is 'set-apart.' And also Paul vowed and kept the Nazarite vow - the vow of the true branch (nazi) - he shaved his head at Cenchrea (where Pheobe lived).

He went from killing to preaching and seems to point to what's written in the 4 gospels as being true.

Maybe 'from killing to leading the living' is a better phrase? Just my way of redirecting an idea, though, not criticizing your ideas at all!

Moses and David also killed and then led. Perhaps all killers do so in order then to lead the living to the sheepfold....

Originally posted by HarpStrings
The foundation for Satan was laid years ago for the church to deceive man. And the closer we come to that 6th seal being opened, the more people are coming to the knowledge of the Truth. Or the closer we come to the opening of that 6th seal, the more people NEED to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Are you saying that the first 5 seals have been opened.

When AND how did the white horse happen?

The red horse?

The black horse?

Pale?

Originally posted by Indellkoffer


Your own interpretation. One of thousands, and you haven't bothered studying the ancients. How can we trust that YOU are right? Jim Jones said the same thing and in the end he murdered thousands of his followers. David Khoresh said the same thing with bitter fruit for his followers... and on, and on and on.

There are so many people here just like you, and each with their own specific interpretation. I don't see any reason to follow ANY of you "guided by inspiration" folks. Give me someone who has studied the book and its foundations instead of "someone on divine fire."

Khoresh was on divine fire. So is polygamist Warren Jeffs. So is Kip McKean of International Church of Christ (a real scumbag.) So was Marshal Applewhite (Heaven's Gate). So was Charles Manson. So are Roland and Georgette Robidoux, founders of The Body of Christ (busted when bodies of some of the group's infants were found at a state park.)

All these people and more came out of nowhere, proclaiming that traditional religion led to "sheeple" and that THEY had the right message. They had various names for Jesus (sometimes) and all of them had the Divine Message. [...]

as they say in the pop culture parlance....Go Ahead, Girl !!



I'm sorry, but other than voicing my support for Indellkoffer and scanning this thread every so often to possibly respond, i will watch this Maelstrom rage wherever it will.....

1.on the 1st page of the thread it seemed the substance was about a 'lawless one'
2.it morphed into 'blind followers'
3.then it got into how modern religiousity is duping the masses into following a false savior...(while usurping His name & title)

4. ~?~






[edit on 1-11-2006 by St Udio]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Are you saying that the first 5 seals have been opened.

When AND how did the white horse happen?

The red horse?

The black horse?

Pale?

The 5 Seals were opened in Heaven, at the end of the times of the Gentiles
(1914; Luke 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Daniels prophecy.)
when the Heavenly kingdom was restored and Jesus was crowned as King.

White horse = Jesus claims his kingship and starts to 'wage war' against the wicked.
Red horse = Literal war starts to grind humanity and destroy the people Jesus is trying to save
Black horse = Diseases start to spread globally on a scale not seen before, without pause. (Yes, the Black death was before 1914, but only a portion of the world was affected. This horse represents total spread of more or less deadly diseases)
Pale horse = Fourth rider is Death who just claims lives with war and diseases

When the fifth seal was opened, the people who had died a martyr death for Jehovah, and are part of the anointed 144000, are resurrected to live in Heaven and rule at Jesus' side.

When the sixth seal will be opened in the near future, it means an ultimate time of despair; disease, war, catastrophes will ravage the Earth, and governments start to crumble.There will be apparent signs of the End if times everywhere.

The seventh seal opening is divided into seven trumpets and during these the are more trouble and the true God, Jehovah, and his plans will be revealed to EVERYONE. (Ezekiel 38:23 And I will magnify myself, and sanctify myself, and I will make myself known in the eyes of many nations; and they shall know that I am Jehovah).

After the seals the final 'scenes' of the Revelation will happen.

Hope this cleared things...

There can only be one Creator, and one Son of Man...

To have any mass of people believe that He, who is so great, loving, caring would be so materialistically caught up by mere semantics is childish to say the least, and ignorant at best.

I'm sorry Harp, but you seem to seriously be desparate to get your message across so fervently, that alone, leaves suspect your intent.

It never has been, isnt now, nor ever will be about names, semantics, logistics....but what is in your HEART. What of those who cant speak, read, or even have cohesive thought? Are they then doomed because they cant pronounce Jesus or Yeshua or even a simple preposition?

Please, I have tried sitting through this entire thread without harboring ill feelings for what you may have been TRYING to accomplish here...but it seems blatently obvious to me that the only thing that was "revealed" to you, was your own ignorance, gullibility, unyielding obsession over semantics and anything BUT salvation.

Those who are saved, are saved because of what is in their hearts...its really just that simple.

Good luck my friend.


AB1

Originally posted by HarpStrings
And there will be a lot of that feeling. I'm not stating my Messiah is better. I'm stating that most people are foolishly following the false Messiah, who teaches a false doctrine to false prophets. Let me put it to you this way, if His name is not Yeshua (with many spellings) then he is not the Son of Man. If whatever is being taught in His name, doesn't line up with His teachings then it isn't Him.

Denominationalism is the “disease” of the Body that is to be healed in the final hours. Most of this worlds believers are being mistaken for homeless people or are outcasts among most Christians.

There are only two laws. Love God and Love your Fellow Man and you can commit no sin.

“The truth is so simple even a child could understand”. If it seems complex it is not truth.

Passing judgement on others including a Pastor or Priest is in and of itself a sinful act. Faith is a very individual thing and it should surprise no one that each of us practices it in a unique way. We were given self-determination as a gift to be cherished.

I clearly remember this conversation being repeated over and over again when I was still among those with new hearts. Your journey is not unique. Getting caught up in the details like how to properly pronounce a word will only lead you to wrongly judge others and turn your thoughts away from the larger truths. Words do not matter. It is the meaning behind the words we speak for which we will be judged.

When we arrive at our final destinations, many will be surprised to see members of all faiths in the Body. Many will be embarrassed by it as well. Denominationalism is indeed a tool of the deceiver.

You are taking the role of teacher. That is an awesome responsibility to bear. Be wise in how you use this tool. Like all tools, it has the power to create or to destroy.

Originally posted by HarpStrings
We are to call Him by name, it is important to Him as it should be important to those who seek Him Spiritually. By placing just a false name before Him, we have created a wall to knowing Him...

If our Lord were this vain, I don’t think he would have walked this earth as a lowly construction bum. Being temperamental about your name is indeed vanity. Not all voices are from God.

Originally posted by HarpStrings
Yes absolutely man is known by his fruits. But Yeshua is not a man anymore. His fruit are us. Buddism (spelling) is a teaching/philosophy and the teaching does NOT line up with the Word.

- Really? How so? Peace, kindness, do no harm. Respect all living things. Merely does not subscribe to the need for a all powerful being, that while that may be disturbing, the "fruits" of such a life would surely please any G_d, I could call worthy of no name. I am not saying I know for certain, but I am not aware of any place that Buddhism does not line up with the gnosis or logos of the Christ. Where are the differences that you see?

Originally posted by HarpStrings
It sounds good *tickles the ears* but it isn't right for those who DO want to follow Yeshua Messiah. When you meet the Holy Spirit for the first time you begin to see the deceptions upon mankind thus Truth is *revealed* to you through The Holy Spirit Yeshua Messiah. When you learn and recognize the voice of your True Shepherd calling you out of darkness and deception, you can begin to discern the false shepherds voices.

- With the utmost of respect, and I mean no disrespect, but this entire paragraph says nothing. Only that when one knows, one will know, and untill you know, you can not know. Surely the middleway can not be so confused. Difficult, I agree, confused I can not see it. One doesn't put a torch under the bed, he puts it upon the wall to the light path of everyone.

Originally posted by HarpStrings
I understand it this way; you cannot know truth if you are living a lie. You are on the inside looking out. You must -absolutely must -walk away from the lie and in order to do this, you must seek understanding of the Scripture through the Holy Spirit.

Yes I promise you that when I understand more, I will share more with you. (regarding the holy trinity)

- And you can not be going east, when you are walking west. I am fully willing and able to walk away from just about everything in this life, but before I do, before I can say something is a lie - it must be shown to be such. If I merely took your word, or a books word, then IMO I would be doing the grandest deservice to the gifts G_d gave me. Any lie can be disproven, because by definition it isn't true.

Tell me how to seek the Holy Spirit. I am sure I am not the only one that would like to have a word with him/her/it. I would imagine most people would be more than willing to live another way if it made them imortal - however, that is not now, nor ever has been the deal has it? In order to gain the salvation, one must sacriface because of something greater than themself's. In essense, at least as I understand it(And as always I fully reserve the right to be 100% wrong - I am still only human), one must be willing to merely do the greater good, regardless on what that means to your own personal being. "Your will be done", not mine. Ofcourse I suppose one could say you only get there after the Holy Spirit speaks to you, but that just brings me back to how you get the darn thing to speak to you....

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread, and I hope to see you again. Besides, you still owe me on that trinity thing

Originally posted by UnholyP

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Are you saying that the first 5 seals have been opened.

When AND how did the white horse happen?

The red horse?

The black horse?

Pale?

The 5 Seals were opened in Heaven, at the end of the times of the Gentiles
(1914; Luke 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Daniels prophecy.)
when the Heavenly kingdom was restored and Jesus was crowned as King.

White horse = Jesus claims his kingship and starts to 'wage war' against the wicked.
Red horse = Literal war starts to grind humanity and destroy the people Jesus is trying to save
Black horse = Diseases start to spread globally on a scale not seen before, without pause. (Yes, the Black death was before 1914, but only a portion of the world was affected. This horse represents total spread of more or less deadly diseases)
Pale horse = Fourth rider is Death who just claims lives with war and diseases

When the fifth seal was opened, the people who had died a martyr death for Jehovah, and are part of the anointed 144000, are resurrected to live in Heaven and rule at Jesus' side.

When the sixth seal will be opened in the near future, it means an ultimate time of despair; disease, war, catastrophes will ravage the Earth, and governments start to crumble.There will be apparent signs of the End if times everywhere.

The seventh seal opening is divided into seven trumpets and during these the are more trouble and the true God, Jehovah, and his plans will be revealed to EVERYONE. (Ezekiel 38:23 And I will magnify myself, and sanctify myself, and I will make myself known in the eyes of many nations; and they shall know that I am Jehovah).

After the seals the final 'scenes' of the Revelation will happen.

Hope this cleared things...

Thank you for your answer...........but you are confused.

The First seal, the White horse is the Antichrist coming to power. That hasn't happened yet.

We know that there has not been peace on the earth, therefore we know that the second seal has not been opened and the red horse released. That will happen after the Antichrist brings peace to the earth. When they say peace and safety................

I hope that helps.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by Terral]
You keep harping on this ‘faith/belief’ concept, but do not know about the ‘faith of Jesus’ required to actually allow someone to truly ‘believe’ (Ephesians 1:13+14) the gospel. That faith comes by ‘hearing the word concerning Christ’ (Romans 10:17), which is the gospel itself. Hearing in this sense has little to do with your ears, but has everything to do with your willingness to place yourself into the position of obedience.

- With all due respect a few quotes from the bible are not about to show the Logos or gnosis of your point of view. I try not to harp on anything generally, perfering to let those beleive what they will, having faith that the universe will show them their lessons in their own time, as it is showing me. Maybe some of them are here to teach me, maybe I am here to teach some of them. Eitherway, that is a covenent I have towards all living things. I will not offer obedience to anything so mysterious not to be available to the weakest of it's flock. That just seems counter to how I conceive G_d to be.

Originally posted by Terral]
You told your child not to play in the street, but look out there five minutes later to find him on the other side of the road. Then you march out there and take him by the ear to lead him home, saying, “I told you not to cross the street, do you HEAR ME?!” Of course the lad hears you, because his ears are working just fine; but that is not your true intention at all. You want to know if he is ‘now’ ready to be ‘obedient’ to your commands.

- I would say that children are capable of understanding much more than their parents give them credit for. If given physical boundries, and explained why they are there, I beleive that they will act as all living animals due - in self preservation. Obviously you are not leaving anew born on the sidewalk. Just saying that any child large enough to be playing without immediate parental supervision is large enough to know about any potential threat and the reasons why it should concern them. That said, I am not a parent, and am sure if I did my opinions would differ greatly.

Originally posted by Terral]

Waiting > "Salvation is born through faith that Jesus Christ is your lord ans saviour and through beleiving that he died for your sins."

Not exactly. Believing that Jesus is Lord AND God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) are component precepts teaching our ‘doctrine of salvation’ for today. However, you are saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8+9) and adding the tiniest itsy bitsy little “WORK” makes “VOID” (1Cor. 1:17) the power of the cross to save anyone. I preach the Gospel and you either believe it or disbelieve it – Period! There are no prayers, songs, water baptisms or any other WORK to be added to the Gospel of your salvation:

- Cool, but in "grace through faith apart from works", which faith are you speaking on? His existence? Yeshua's? Jesus? The Almighty? The All in All? Or faith that someone died? Faith that someone lived? Which faith?

Originally posted by Terral]
Suppose we lined up every man and woman here on the eastern shores of the USA and everyone who can swim to Europe would be saved. How many would make it? Zero? Nobody here is capable of paying for their own transgressions against God that have been carried out far beyond the realm of time and space itself.

- How exactly do you figure that? What transgression could a new born have? Or even a teenager for petes sake. I simply can not see us someing from perfection, with imperfection. I never have understood why the original sin took the form it did in mythos.

Originally posted by Terral]
Everyone here is standing before our God in His Infinite Realm for crimes connected to the Satanic Rebellion and “He” is calling “Only” those to Him found “innocent” of those crimes. If you stand guilty in God’s Infinite Realm where “Your are gods” (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34), then NOTHING in this universe is going to save you. However, when God judges you and things go in your favor, then He sends somebody just like me to offer the Gospel concerning His Only Begotten Son; that by ‘hearing’ you will be numbered among the ‘sons of God’ (Romans 8:145, 19, Gal. 3:26, etc.).

- So what you are saying is there was this little smackdown. And a buch of bad guys went against the good guys. The Good guys won, because they have the all powerfull and supreme being of all exsistance on their side. SO the bad guys, for their punishment, along with the good guys(Why are they being punished exactly? Or if life isn't a punishment, why are the bad guys being rewarded?) they are sent to this entherworld where we will all live in fear because the supreme being wants to play risk? That seems a little hard to beleive on a few levels.

As a fellow person of faith, merely allow me the oppertunity to mention that quoting the bible to make a point is much like a Hindu quoting the Gita, or a Muslim quoting the Koran. They are speak very well to those that are quoting them, but carry no more weight than a quote from Ghandi - whom at least we all can varify his existence and values and know he lived to the ideal. Not to say that Ghandi is in the level of the forementioned - clearly even he would state it is obviously not true - merely pointing out that philosophical arguements carry the same amount of weight, because they deal in the idea, as oppossed to the reality.

To condense my feelings on this, I would say that when I think about G_d, I see a much more father figure. One that loves us so much to allow us to make all our mistakes. Loves us enough to allow us to feel our pain for our mistakes, so that we understand why things should be done "this way" as opposed to "that way". I see a Universe that doesn't even require a G_d. I beleive that there is, because of some internal need. Maybe because "I feel it" or maybe because I "was brainwashed", I'm willing to accept either given reasonable evidense.

So seriously.. who is the Lawless one? Do I know him?

Now that the daylight has passed and there is slience I'll move a little slower in what I want you to understand. And that's my intention. Reading through the thread I can sense a lot of the same confusion coming from some of you and I totally understand this. Someone mentioned the thread getting off track but I don't think so. I'll go as far as I can go in answering all of your questions and if I don't have an answer, then I will seek it and then if I still don't have an answer maybe we can seek it together-He does say where two or more are gathered in His name there He will be. Again, we can read biblically the importance, or to say the least, the emphasis placed on His name.

Am I a Biblical scholar? No, I have to say I didn't go to University for this at all whatsoever. Does that mean I am not worthy enough to share with you the Truth? If you think this way, then go ahead and continue to be blinded. Because I may not be worthy to you because I haven't been taught by ancients (whatever that means) but the Holy Spirit IS worthy. I'm not asking you to trust me or believe in me, if you are THAT gullible to trust a persona via a conspiracy website then I might as well be writing this for a toy stuffed animal. Test the Spirits by all means! Get out your bibles and pray for The Holy Spirit in the name of Yeshua Messiah to help you, reveal to you, provide you with understanding Him thus His Word. Only He can do this for you, only He. I can guide you as far as I can, like I stated above and I can assist you as much as time allows. But ultimately, it will be you alone that faces the Truth.

The Lawless one can only be known after the falling away. You have to fall away from the oppression to see/know who the lawless one is. Oppression is where the church has you. Keeping the masses in order, telling them whatever they want to hear. I'm giving you something even I didn't want to hear, because the Truth is hard to swallow at first and even harder to swallow the longer you've been deceived.

Am I judging the shepherds of the church? I'll leave judgment up to Him. Am I angry with the shepherds of the church? Absolutely! I'm as angry as I was with my own self for being so blind.

Once again I'll state. Jesus is only the name that Satan was able to enter into the Temple with. Satan is the one who will claim to be G_d under the pretense of His Son Jesus Christ. Satan cannot use the real Messiahs name!! (His people know Him by name) Even His name is powerful.

The Word says :Matthew 7:22, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."