42% of Americans no longer believe in God

very sad JackJuice, long post but you didnt make any good point

Originally posted by Zeratul
very sad JackJuice, long post but you didnt make any good point

I don't know what you wanted i wasn't making any specific point just defending attacks against myself.

Perhaps it would make you happy if i told you that the whole point of having religion is to give a person the sense that there is something here more important than themselves and that they shouldn't be so selfish. That is why it bothers so many people that religion is going out of style so to speak. Happy?

edited for typo

[edit on 11/3/2006 by JackJuice]

ya im happy but confused why do you think this

people should believe in something higher or greater than themselves

I left out the most important part.... You see religion gives people hope. Thats the biggest and most important part of religion. No man can live without hope and if he could I wouldn't want to be him.

Originally posted by Columbus
darkelf:

I have and still do study the Bible extensively. I find my personal relationship with Jesus to be a great comfort, especially now as I'm coming up on the first anniversary of the loss of both my parents.

Christianity is a mental virus that like all disease attacks when the spirit is weak. The only comfort you receive is in a falsehood. Your support of this deception has wicked consequences.

I am not a religious person. I call myself a Christian because I follow the teachings of Jesus the Christ. I have a personal relationship with Him. This could not have happened as long as He was only a concept as one cannot have a personal relationship with a concept.

I do not, and hopefully never will, attack another’s spiritual beliefs. I will share mine, but do not expect anyone to accept it just because I said it. Each person has to make their own spiritual journey. Some people find comfort in science, while others look to the more esoteric. Those who seek the truth with an open mind and open heart will find it. I’ve found mine.

You were offended when you perceived that someone said you were lost. Yet you had no problem attacking other’s beliefs. I was not offended by your remarks to me. Your attack on me was due to ignorance. If you knew me, you would know why I am a Christian. This is why I do not attack others’ beliefs. My ignorance of them (including you) prevents me from knowing how their beliefs affect their lives.

Science is objective where spirituality is subjective. Subjective subjects, by their nature, are open to attack. There are no hard core facts or proof for a spiritual belief. I can no more prove that God exists than you can prove He doesn’t. I’ve had a spiritual epiphany that no ones words can change. My spiritual journey continues to be the most exciting and important part of my life. May you find peace in yours.

Especially Americans.

By this I do not mean Americans more than anyone else, but the fact is Americans exempt themselves from such criticism. Christians attack Muslims for being guilty of things that Christians themselves are just as guilty of doing.

You stress getting rid of something you clearly lack any understanding of,...

I possess intricate knowledge of the functioning of the church from years of membership and communion with Christ and His Flock. That relationship ended many years ago and I have been struggling with constant attacks by Christians since then. Christians are bigots. It is part of the definition of being Christian to be a bigot.

War is no more "palatable" because of religion than it is for any other reason. If we don't goto war in the name of a religion than it will just be in the name of some other reason, humans are pretty creative when it comes to this sort of justification.

No doubt people are animals and will find outlet for their violent tendencies. However it is a proven fact that religion is used by political authority to demonize the enemy. How many times have I heard that the WTC was destroyed by Atheists or that Muslims worship Satan? That is the sound of religion tenderizing your enemy to make them easier for you to kill.

...your posts are laugh out loud funny...

People like myself have had their lives ruined by religionists and worst thousands of innocents have died in Bush's religious war, yet you mock me by calling my knowledge "funny"? You OFFEND me. And by this I mean, I am not offended, but you are tenderizing me you filthy religionist.

I left out the most important part.... You see religion gives people hope. Thats the biggest and most important part of religion. No man can live without hope and if he could I wouldn't want to be him.

There is no connection between god and hope. Hope is simply a desire that things will be as good or better in the future. Religion is self-deception. It is an assertion that things will get better or worse based on nothing but desire. Faith made certain.

Another problem with religion is prophecy. It always leads people to self-fulfill prophecy. Prophecy almost always revolves around the "End of the World" and the deaths of non-believers in generous quantities. Constant war in the middle east is a naked attempt to fulfill prophecy. Since prophecy is assertion and Jesus is not real, the real outcome is unpredictable and dangerous.

the whole point of having religion is to give a person the sense that there is something here more important than themselves and that they shouldn't be so selfish. That is why it bothers so many people that religion is going out of style so to speak.

Importance is an aspect that a person applies to something. In order to not be selfish, importance simply needs to be applied someone other than yourself. There are billions of people in this world, yet you feel the need to make up pretend gods to be the benefacctor of your grace. If god is so great, why should he need your grace?

The things I say make perfect simple sense and clearly demonstrate no need for god. People like you simple choose to ignore me and restate your brainwashing program. That is why you are ignorant and brainwashed.

Columbus

I am not a religious person.

Christian fundamentalists say this all the time. Yes you are religious.

I follow the teachings of Jesus the Christ.

Hence, religious.

I have a personal relationship with Him.

Christian fundamentalists say this all the time too. No, you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. I used to believe this myself, just as you do. There is a simple proof this isn't true. You have an imaginary friend. Since all your Christian friends also have a personal relationship with him, how come there is not three-way communication? Because it would provide proof when you are restricted to faith. No, faith is meant to be destroyed not protected. Protection of faith is ignorance and you permit yourself unwittingly to be manipulated and brainwashed.

This could not have happened...

AS I said, it didn't. You are only brainwashed.

one cannot have a personal relationship with a concept.

Yes, you can, it's called an imaginary friend. That's what you have. You know it too. It disturbs you to have your brainwashing exposed to you.

...attack another’s spiritual beliefs...

Criticism is the only legitimate path to fact. You think that by protecting other people's faiths you will protect your own. Faith is meant to be destroyed.

If you have faith you can jump the Grand Canyon, as long as you don't try it you can go around like a jerk saying "I can jump the Grand Canyon." Sane people know you can't and dare you to do it. But you jerks just say, Faith is all you need. And most importantly, Never put God to the Test. It isn't about God. It's about the real world and how you are a jerk acting like you don't live in it.

Those who seek the truth with an open mind and open heart will find it. I’ve found mine.

You're determined not to look anymore because to do so would damage the virus in your mind that is controlling you to protect itself. You've given up trying to find truth. What a cop-out.

You were offended when you perceived that someone said you were lost.

When I say "offended" I don't mean me, I mean them. Offense is taken more than given, so I say no thanks. Christians however speak in a code which I am very familiar with. All Christians have a plank in their eyes so huge that they can't see at all.

I was not offended by your remarks to me.

I am not atacking you. I am attacking your virus. Your virus convinces you that attacks against it are attacks on you so you will defend it. Once the virus is dead, you will realize it was there all along. That is how I freed myself from the oppression of Christ.

Your attack on me was due to ignorance.

I know far more than you do. In fact you know you have this virus, but the virus works to keep you ignorant.

...you would know why I am a Christian.

I know why every Christian is a Christian. I used to be one. Christians don't know why they are Christians.

I can no more prove that God exists than you can prove He doesn’t.

In this thread alone I've provided several definitive disproofs of god. I can prove that god does not exist by the very failure of all religions to define god in a non-contradictory non-self-referential way. Know this: god can not exist by definition. You should not start to believe in god unless you have the slightest idea what you are talking about and you don't.

I will make every effort to refute any assertion of god that is contradictory or self-referential. In several years no one has ever offered anything that I couldn't refute.

Columbus

I'll state first off, since I really don't feel like arguing, nor being
attacked, because I fight back..

I am an Atheist, I believe in science, however I'm not arrogant
enough to think that we know everything, or that certain things
(not religious things) that we percieve as impossible/fake may
indeed not be.

There is no connection between god and hope. Hope is simply a desire that things will be as good or better in the future. Religion is self-deception. It is an assertion that things will get better or worse based on nothing but desire. Faith made certain.

Well, since there is no god, you're right.
However, people gain hope by believing in the idea, I can see how,
if someone was afraid that there life would end with death, that they
would believe and hope for an afterlife.

But, that is a good description of what hope is psychologically.
A bit cold, but it's precise.

Another problem with religion is prophecy. It always leads people to self-fulfill prophecy. Prophecy almost always revolves around the "End of the World" and the deaths of non-believers in generous quantities.

That is true fpr the majority, if not all of the prophecies in the
Abrahamic religions.

Originally posted by Columbus

Originally posted by darkelf
Your attack on me was due to ignorance.

I know far more than you do. In fact you know you have this virus, but the virus works to keep you ignorant.

I did not say that you are ignorant. I was referring to your ignorance of me as a person. You continue to make assumptions about me. These assumptions are not based on any knowledge of me. They are based on your own experiences and knowledge.

I appreciate your intentions. I understand that you feel that you are only trying to enlighten me to the “truth.” But truth can be relative. When the world believed that the sun revolved around the earth; that was truth. When scientists observed the planets rotating around the sun, that proof became truth.

God does not exist to you, and for you, that is your truth. If you were to die tomorrow and find out differently, then that would be your truth. Truth is relative and subjective. In matters of spirituality we can only offer opinions.

If I were to die tomorrow, and find there is no God, then and only then will it become my truth.

God does not exist to you, and for you, that is your truth. ... Truth is relative and subjective.

No, truth is not relative in reality. Truth is a fundamental aspect of existence. There are philosophical discussions about this, but bottom line, if we live in reality, we share the same truth, but we may or may not be able to know it.

It may be true that Fidel Castro is brushing his teeth right now. It either IS or IS NOT. There is not my truth and your truth about what Castro is doing right now. In philosophy, the question is not about whether he is brushing his teeth or not but whether you and I and Castro are all real.

The fact is when you say "god" YOU don't have any clue what you are talking about. I know that about you. No one anywhere has any idea about god that is not contradictory or self-referential. Do you understand what that means? If you do, then you know that god CAN'T exist. If you believe god exists, you don't understand what I repeatedly tell you.

That means you are deliberately and willfully ignoring me because you don't want what I am saying to be true. Well tough. God doesn't exist. Too bad.

There are many many problems with god as a concept let alone a real entity. God must be able to exist as a concept primarily before any argument about real existence can begin. There is no real evidence with which to even work backwards from on a concept. All the failed attempts are based on assertions based on what you desire in an ideal god. You may as well be speculating the ideal spouse exists.

The Bible is worthlesss from a philosophical point of view. The Hebrews weren't the Greeks.

If you were to die tomorrow and find out differently, then that would be your truth. In matters of spirituality we can only offer opinions.

You are saying that when I die I will go to my version of heaven and you will go to yours even if they are contradictory. In my heaven, you will be hanging on my wall, but I doubt that's your heaven.

If you die and stand before someone and that someone claims to be god, how do you know this is true? Expert on Truth?

Columbus