Israeli F-16's Fire At German Naval Vessels

Originally posted by Reality Hurts

Originally posted by Rockpuck
In regards to Israel, that is how it is treated here on ATS, any chance to bash them, acuse them, in any other way desicrate their name on the board will be taken and used to the fullest extent.

Agenda? .. I think so.

No kidding.

I'm no fan of the American support of Israel, or Israel's constant disregard of international law, but come one people, at least hold all nations to the same set of rules. If you're going to vilify Israel for doing something, you can't let another nation, like say Iran or Syria, do the same sort of thing with impunity.

You can't say one thing and then let another get away with it. That makes YOU a hypocrite.

Hypocracy? If you want to go into hypocracy you need look no further than Israel and the US, the biggest hypocrites on the face of the planet.

The US and Israel want to stop Iran from enriching uranium, which they claim is for civilian puropses, something they are completely entitled to do under a treaty drawn up BY the US. However the US claims they are making nukes with it, everyone knows this.

On the other side you have Israel who possibly have nuclear weapons, has anyone bothered to check? No, they havent. Maybe someone should, as we have all seen, Israel are far more agressive than Iran and more likely to use such weapons.

Israel occupies at least two areas of land which do not belong to them, and after repeated requests from the UN to leave these areas they still remain there, yet nothing more is done.

I agree whole heartedly that the Israelis should be taken down a peg or two. They are NOT above everyone as they seem to believe and they do NOT have the right to do whatever they like, even though it may appear they do as no one is going to force them to stop for fear of 'upsetting' them.

God forbid we did that now...


Sorry, gone a little off topic there...

[edit on 26-10-2006 by DarkUK]

All i say is just wipe any war plane that is not lebanese or international over the lebanese airspace. Countries MUST respect international law, Iran, Israël or the US.

When I heard about this incident I was really shocked... Has anybody forgotten the USS Liberty? More than 200 American soldiers died in the SAME KIND of incident from Israeli fighter jets...

Is it me or are we always going to let Iseral get a way with every thing because of the hologust.
Yes it was a terrible time in modern history, but that seems to make it ok to force their opions on every body else.
Im not political or religious but just lets get things in perspective.

Israeli F-16's Fire At German Naval Vessels

From your source
Berlin: IAF jets fire shots over German ship off coast of Lebanon

Everyone feel the sensationalism! Obviously whoever started this thread (With a seriously misleading title) has some sort of an agenda. I suppose firing warning shots into the sea is the same thing as shooting at the boat. And secondly there was only one ship. Why did you say "vessels"?

What exactly was fired? Not missiles, they would have impacted the boat. Maybe two bullets? I doubt it since squeezing off just two rounds is nearly impossible, and it would have been impossible for the Germans to note "two shots" exactly.The only thing we know for sure is that they flew over the boat and used "infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack" (That's flares in simple speak). I submit that they flew over the boat to check it out and released two heat flares just in case the Germans tried to fire on them as they left the area.


Denying ignorance requires some sort of logic be applied to the situation.


EDIT: Just as I thought the article cleary states "only flares were fired." Unless we see pictures of the holes in the ship that's about it. Otherwise go to the weaponry forum and argue with everyone there on how guided missles can miss the broad-side of a boat.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by dbates]

I don't know about the Germans but the French can seriously take up the Israelis right at their doorstep. They have the complete strategic ability to do so..
(navy, Air Force et all)
And warning shots if fired(I have not read the article) are NEVER missiles of any sort. Its a ridculous waste. Its always gunpods.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I don't know about the Germans but the French can seriously take up the Israelis right at their doorstep. They have the complete strategic ability to do so..
(navy, Air Force et all)
And warning shots if fired(I have not read the article) are NEVER missiles of any sort. Its a ridculous waste. Its always gunpods.

NOt if it were a conventional conflict, the French would hvae their ass handed to them. Sure the Israeli's would suffer some major damage, but the French forces would be decimated.

Originally posted by dbates

Israeli F-16's Fire At German Naval Vessels

From your source
Berlin: IAF jets fire shots over German ship off coast of Lebanon

Everyone feel the sensationalism! Obviously whoever started this thread (With a seriously misleading title) has some sort of an agenda. I suppose firing warning shots into the sea is the same thing as shooting at the boat. And secondly there was only one ship. Why did you say "vessels"?


Denying ignorance requires some sort of logic be applied to the situation.


EDIT: Just as I thought the article cleary states "only flares were fired." Unless we see pictures of the holes in the ship that's about it. Otherwise go to the weaponry forum and argue with everyone there on how guided missles can miss the broad-side of a boat.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by dbates]

As I stated before..The article changed over the course of the day. And as far as why I said vesselS it was a typo and I was unable to edit it. There is no edit button on my page and yes I am logged in as you can see above the LOG OUT Button is there.

HOGWASH!


Okay, I see the issue now. I hate it when newspapers change their story. Everyone's in a rush to release the news first I suppose. Then they have to go back and edit in what actually happened.

Originally posted by dbates
Everyone feel the sensationalism! Obviously whoever started this thread (With a seriously misleading title) has some sort of an agenda. I suppose firing warning shots into the sea is the same thing as shooting at the boat. And secondly there was only one ship. Why did you say "vessels"?

I also wanted to address your little snipe at me in regards to agendas. I take it you haven't looked at your own posts lately. Especially your Qana post attempting to deny people died there. The same way you obviously have a thing about Muslims or Arabs,well I think Im entitled to have an opinion that differs from yours when it comes to Israel. Perhaps you feel the need to post articles about Iranians and AIDS, or Qana and imagination..I Chose Israel and attacks on a German boat. Is that against the rules or something?

No one said anything was against any rules. I just said it had an agenda and since it didn't align with my agenda I pointed it out. That's how the world works. Nothing personal. As far as sensationalism goes, no one said it was all false, just that it was exaggerated to seem more severe than it actually was. For example:

Russians finish second, Americans next to last. (In race to the moon) is sensationalism.

Breaking it down on when you "buzz" someone:
1: The ship is in YOUR waters not international
2: They are not part of any agreement and are thus not on todays itinerary
3: They are en mase not just 1 ship thats destroyer class
4: They send more than one plane in the direction of the nearest and largest city that belongs to YOU
5: They refuse to respond while in flight (at this point I say shoot over the bow)
6: They have about 6 ships in a defence formation and have multiple planes going in your direction
7: etc etc etc
The Germans were there on behalf of the UN, so they had the right to send off 1 heli if they wanted too. Jeez, how big a threat is 1 heli in INTERNATIONAL waters when they have been sent by the UN? Next thing will be Israel wants to own 100 miles more of ocean in all directions and they will start using this as why they want to.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by Vekar]

Isreal has every right to shoot at any ships they like if the Germans don't like it they can go home and cry about it to someone who cares. I personally think the Germans should count themselves very lucky to still be afloat if the Isrealis had wanted to they could have sunk it easily. The UN is a complete failure and should just be disbanded before they become anymore of a laughing stock and keep out of Isreali and American business.

Alternatively the UN forces could open fire on any Israeli overflights, in breach of a UN resolution, and we can then watch the poor Israelis whine...again

When it comes to Israel, the UN is shackled by the US and it's bought and paid for Israel-firsters in government. After all, AIPAC don't give all that money and freebie trips to Israel for nothing

And, the idea that Israeli forces are somehow better than anyone elses is laughable, as recent events have shown

Originally posted by Vekar
Breaking it down on when you "buzz" someone:

5: They refuse to respond while in flight (at this point I say shoot over the bow)

[edit on 26-10-2006 by Vekar]

From the source article:

The IDF spokesman denied that the air force had attacked a ship or opened fire in the vicinity, but said that IAF jets had been launched early Tuesday when a helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier in waters close to Rosh Hanikra without identifying itself in accordance with United Nations regulations.

This also raises the question whether the Germans were in international waters.

Originally posted by dbates
Everyone feel the sensationalism! Obviously whoever started this thread (With a seriously misleading title) has some sort of an agenda. I suppose firing warning shots into the sea is the same thing as shooting at the boat. And secondly there was only one ship. Why did you say "vessels"?
[edit on 26-10-2006 by dbates]

What is your agenda here? Looks like damage control for the 'home team' if you ask me? There should be no shooting even of ping pong balls from those planes and furthermore there is no need for flyovers either by Israel.

NOt if it were a conventional conflict, the French would hvae their ass handed to them. Sure the Israeli's would suffer some major damage, but the French forces would be decimated.

You're basing this on what exactly?

Your estimate of the "machismo" of the countries involved?

Certainly not the order of battle of each country... in which case Israel is massively outmatched. It amazes me the nonsense I hear on here sometimes...

Originally posted by Shamanator
Isreal has every right to shoot at any ships they like if the Germans don't like it they can go home and cry about it to someone who cares. I personally think the Germans should count themselves very lucky to still be afloat if the Isrealis had wanted to they could have sunk it easily. The UN is a complete failure and should just be disbanded before they become anymore of a laughing stock and keep out of Isreali and American business.

Maybe Israel should just resign from the UN if it isn't doing what they want them to do? Its not like they abide by it anyway nor do they take part in any type of Nuclear Treaty, Chem-Bio treaty nor do they abide by any Human rights abuse requests. So why should the UN disband just because Israel feels slighted?

Your arrogance in regards to Israeli military might does not surprise me. They were moaning about 30days at war with Hizbollah and needed American support, if they were pulled into any other long protracted war they may not fair so well. So far their only wars have been 3 day war, 7 day wars. They can't even build an apartheid wall without needing American funds much less finance a long term war.

Hey! It's NOT the IDFs fault that 'Arab armies' are SO inept.



Arab/Muslim propagandists keep wanting to hail the recent Lebanon skirmish as a sweeping victory for Hezbollah.

If memory serves correctly it was the IDF standing on the banks of the Litani...

Originally posted by golemina
Arab/Muslim propagandists keep wanting to hail the recent Lebanon skirmish as a sweeping victory for Hezbollah.

If memory serves correctly it was the IDF standing on the banks of the Litani...

Yeah thy made it to a river, killed over 1200 civilians, 10 years worth of Ecological damage with probably thousand to have cancer later, destroyed infrastructure, billions in damage, used weapons in illegitimate ways, and yet still walked away empty handed without the soldiers they claimed to be trying to free. Something to be really proud of and of course victorious celebration should accompany it. All that in a battle with 5000 militants -vs- the supposed 5th largest Military power. What an accomplishment.

Hey a 12 year old boy got killed by an unexploded cluster bomb the other day. Courtesy of "The Most Moral Army In The World"