What's the speed of dark?

Originally posted by heelstone
The notion that darkness is a persistence, perhaps like gravity, is how I would apply it. Its there at all times at all places no matter what, like gravity. It requires no speed because its already there before and after light strikes an area.

In this case, it would indeed be a conduit, for everything that travels. Light, electricity, heat, smoke...anything you can think of.

the only discerning factor would be the observer, since these forces are omnipresent...
thus one could deduce that thought varies these forces...

therefore thought is faster...

Maybe I'm not following your thought theory very well, but brain functions are triggered by electrical impulses. Thought can't be any faster than electricity, in that case. What's the speed of lightning?

[Edited on 11-10-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
Maybe I'm not following your thought theory very well, but brain functions are triggered by electrical impulses. Thought can't be any faster than electricity, in that case. What's the speed of lightning?

[Edited on 11-10-2003 by Satyr]

Thoughts are both electrical and chemical. At the synapses the nervous system uses neurotransmitters such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine. The chemicals have to travel from the dendrite of one neuron to the axon of another.

Plus the electrical impulses travelling down a neuron encounter resistance.

Either way, thoughts are not faster than the speed of light.

can you observe a thought using that logic?
than how can one measure the speed?
it is infinite...

Originally posted by bigsage
can you observe a thought using that logic?
than how can one measure the speed?
it is infinite...

Says you. I don't think it is. How about I give you a column of numbers,we'll say about 100 numbers for the sake of argument. All of them very simple numbers. And see how fast you can add them up. If you say that your thoughts are infinitely fast then it would simply be the speed of light between the paper and your eyes which is the rate limiting step. So basically, I think it should take you less than a fraction of a second to add up those numbers.

So could you do it?

well in reference to your question the numbers are all infinity, the distinction in them lie in how many quantities one person has over another...

in one lies infinity and in zero lies infinity...

but as you percieve things you add more to the solution and then "figure" the difference between your "additions"...

what if, we dont see dark, BUT, our minds trick us into thinking its dark as a reminder to go to sleep, and if that doesnt work, we get "tired" ehh?...ehhh?

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by bdubb]

Originally posted by DaRAGE
Seapeople: obviously you havn't read about hte experiment they did that light reached it's destination faster than light travel i a vacuum. In fact light reached it's destination 300 times faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.


300 times faster than the speed of light, and 7% faster than the speed of light, and halting light to a crawl


They conducted an experiment that involved lasers, a chamber containing cold caesium atoms and a super-fast stopwatch.

The end result was a beam of light that moved at 300 times the theoretical limit for the speed of light.

Earlier this year, a team of physicists made a microwave beam travel 7% faster than light speed. Last year, they announced that they had even slowed light down to almost a crawl.


*edit*

This is what they were saying about it and why it was such a huge fuss....and got people going about time-travel.

"Scientists have seen a pulse of light emerge from a cloud of gas before it even entered.

This astonishing and baffling observation was made by researchers from the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, US.

They conducted an experiment that involved lasers, a chamber containing cold caesium atoms and a super-fast stopwatch.

The end result was a beam of light that moved at 300 times the theoretical limit for the speed of light.

It was Einstein who said nothing physical could break this barrier because, among other things, to do so would also mean travelling back in time.
"

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by DaRAGE]

Particles in this universe are all connected. Some wierd things happen. Like for instance. Electrons can supposedly move from one place to a second place around an atom....without ever being in between the two. The weird double slit experiment that showed some sort of communication between particles as they formed an interference pattern when excited at a time interval. The teleportation of a photon from one point to another (what you were referencing I believe). It has got people into a fuss over relativity and the speed of light being a barrier yes. I am not a scientist. I dont know all there is to know about those subjects. I will agree with your article though:

QUOTE:
"Dramatic demonstration

But the NEC scientists believe their work does not violate Einstein's theory. "

Quote:
"it is not possible to use this effect to send information faster than the speed of light. "

Quote:
"And according to Dr Wang, this strange result does not threaten Einstein's theories - in particular, the causality principle, which states that a cause must precede its effect. "

Quote:
"He told BBC News Online: "The effect cannot be used to go back in time, only to reduce the time between cause and effect a little bit. "

I know that several formulas have tested out well in experiment with respect to relativity and the speed of light. They dont even know what they are dealing with in that article yet. When they know and have formulated there own theories, I will change my opinions only if they are logical discepancies and are tested true.

My head hurts :bash:

Darkness is nothing more than the Absence of light. Light moves because it is a form of energy. But being the absencs of light, darkness doesn't move.

Only in the Absence of Knowedge Can Ignorance Grow! Deny Ignorance, learn something new!

Tim

I don't know where to start. Holy crap, I thought it was deny ignorance, not embrace it! Don't any of you read physics? New scientist?

Light is visible dark, what the heck?

The universe does not expand because of our thoughts. It was expanding long before humans were around.

Without light, things still exist, bigsage. And thought does not travel faster than the speed of light, it's electrical impulses in the brain.

*wanders off in disbelief*

Light is an electromagnetic wave (EM wave). Dark is an area where your eyes cannot pick up as much light as the surrounding area. This is because your eyes are complex photo-receptors.

It doesn't matter what dark is, per se. Dark, simply defined in terms of spacetime, would be an area that lacks the EM wave signature that is significant enough for your eyes to register. If a grand unified theory is possible, EM waves will related to gravity and nuclear forces with relative ease. This means that everywhere where there is gravity, matter, energy, etc... there will be energy in one form or another, possibly light. Even if it is not "light," the dark will most likely still have properties of energy that can be transformed into light.

The speed of dark is irrelevant. Darkness is all over. When you close your eyes, darkness is infinite. Stare into a light and light seems infinite. Infinite quantities do no need speeds or velocities because they are simply everywhere. Your problem is that you are using your eyes to determine scientific properties. Naughty, naughty.

Originally posted by Zzub
I don't know where to start. Holy crap, I thought it was deny ignorance, not embrace it! Don't any of you read physics? New scientist?

Light is visible dark, what the heck?

The universe does not expand because of our thoughts. It was expanding long before humans were around.

Without light, things still exist, bigsage. And thought does not travel faster than the speed of light, it's electrical impulses in the brain.

*wanders off in disbelief*

Thank you Zzub. It is annoying arguing mundane points with people who enjoy philosophising about everything and in essence talking about nothing.

Kind of like going back 600 years and arguing with people about whether or not the world is flat and getting nowhere with them.

*where is that banging my head against the brick wall smiley when I need it*

Originally posted by ghost
Darkness is nothing more than the Absence of light. Light moves because it is a form of energy. But being the absencs of light, darkness doesn't move.

In other words, it's something like the electrons that are always present in an electrical conductor...They're always there, but they don't create a current until a difference of potential is applied on either side of the conductor, which causes the electrons to start moving.

So, in effect, darkness is always present (& therefore, not moving at all) but it's just "waiting in the shadows" (pun intended ) for the light to leave the area...

Originally posted by Zzub
I don't know where to start. Holy crap, I thought it was deny ignorance, not embrace it! Don't any of you read physics? New scientist?

Light is visible dark, what the heck?

The universe does not expand because of our thoughts. It was expanding long before humans were around.

Without light, things still exist, bigsage. And thought does not travel faster than the speed of light, it's electrical impulses in the brain.

*wanders off in disbelief*

Yep. Electricity travels slower than light, even at it's highest speed. Otherwise, wouldn't they say that electricity is the fastest thing we know of? Don't confuse the two. Also, the electrical impulses in our brains only trigger another neurological reaction....neither of which is anywhere near the speed of light. Of course, the speed of electricity depends on the resistance. Anything it travels through creates some resistance. It never travels at it's full capacity, in theory.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
In other words, it's something like the electrons that are always present in an electrical conductor...They're always there, but they don't create a current until a difference of potential is applied on either side of the conductor, which causes the electrons to start moving.

So, in effect, darkness is always present (& therefore, not moving at all) but it's just "waiting in the shadows" (pun intended

) for the light to leave the area...

In this case, it would go back to my conduit theory. Dark could also be a conduit for electrons, could it not? They exist everywhere...even in darkness, right?

[Edited on 11-12-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Electricity travels slower than light, even at it's highest speed. Otherwise, wouldn't they say that electricity is the fastest thing we know of? Don't confuse the two. Also, the electrical impulses in our brains only trigger another neurological reaction....neither of which is anywhere near the speed of light. Of course, the speed of electricity depends on the resistance. Anything it travels through creates some resistance. It never travels at it's full capacity, in theory.

anyone know how fast "die electricity" travels?
i would say it should travel as fast as a radio wave does, which is damn near instantanous.

Not sure how accurate this is, but I think it explains the general theory well. Lightning is probably the fastest form of electricity. No? Electricity moves at it's fastest speed through the path of least resistance. An arch is about the fastest discharge there is, I'd think. I could be wrong, I guess. I'd never thought it about it before, to tell the truth. A direct short could be faster?

van.hep.uiuc.edu...

[Edited on 11-12-2003 by Satyr]

I never knew it was possible to measure the speed of dark, i would imagine it is a lot slower than meassuring the speed of light.

To answer the first question, What's the speed of dark? The speed of dark is the same as the speed of light