Situation X

Originally posted by thelibra

I didn't actually realize you were female

Stanley is my 100lb white lab, the youngest of my 3, 100lb labs.

I'd actually like to know more about what "the truth" was that started coming out when you were talking to other military families about the survival preparations

No big "truth", my sister has been married to a military guy for 22 years. When I started prepping they would roll their eyes and threaten to make me a tin foil hat. At a dinner party they had on post with some of their army friends my sister bought me up, I suppose to joke about me. Well one guy said (and he was in charge of making sure their post was prepped for emergencies) "leave your sister alone she's right." I guess as dinner went on it came out that a couple of their friends had actually bought property within 100 miles of post and started putting in underground shelters with concrete roofs. These shelters were stocked with food and supplies. They had been telling people that they were hunting cabins. Needless to say my sister now preps, once she got into it she asked another woman about it and the woman said "shhhh", didn't want anyone to know that she prepped. My sister now notices people who are carrying large amounts of food from their cars to their houses and finally has realized that many, many people prep. It felt good to say "I told you so!"

Another really good idea, and teaches the kids the importance of a survival kit early on. How did you keep the stickers charged up?

They all sleep with closet lights on.

Something I thought of right before clicking the submit button... If you somehow could put a different color over half the flashlight's bulb-guard (that flat glass or plastic disc), then you could tell from a distance, in total darkness, which child was which

I can tell them apart by the height of the light!

Originally posted by stanstheman
Stanley is my 100lb white lab, the youngest of my 3, 100lb labs.

Good lord... those aren't dogs, they're horses! We've got a little 25 lb mutt who wouldn't be much use in a survival situation except maybe to keep morale up, and maybe to catch birds.

Originally posted by stanstheman
When I started prepping they would roll their eyes and threaten to make me a tin foil hat.

You know I honestly expected everyone I know to do the same thing, but it turns out they've all been prepping as well, there was just no one to organize it before.

Originally posted by stanstheman
Needless to say my sister now preps, once she got into it she asked another woman about it and the woman said "shhhh", didn't want anyone to know that she prepped.

Exactly!

It seems like everyone, or at least most people, are genuinely concerned about the next big disaster, but they don't want to seem paranoid to others. I'm not sure when prepared became equal to paranoid, but what can you do?

Kudos on everything, including getting yours sister in on the preps.

Okay... Going to answer my other threads and then hop back on here with a list of home preparations.

Nuclear Fallout Survival

Situation X

Bugging Out

AWOL Bag

Making Shelters

How to Build an Underground Shelter

Vehicles and Transportation

Titanium Alloy Claw Hammer - There is simply no replacement for a good claw hammer, and if Situation X meant there would never be another hardware store again in the near future, this hammer will allow you to even do crude smithing to make, or remake, your other tools. Titanium will outlast a cheap iron-head hammor a thousand times over. A very highly regarded model is the Stiletto Tl16MC, which is a hefty $84USD. For the casual American use of hanging a picture or minor little repairs here and there, a cheap hammer will do you fine and last you years, but in the event of Situation X, it is likely that you will need your hammer every day, for hundreds of different uses. A cheap hammer won't last under those conditions very long at all. I know, however, we have some people here with much less, and some with much more, to spend on a hammer.
Here is an interesting article reviewing different types, brands, and models of hammers. It may not sound like fascinating reading, but again, the right tool for the right job is essential, and in Situation X, a hammer can serve as the right tool more often than any other tool you name. With a good claw hammer, you can hammer, of course, but also crush rock, cut stone, tool metal, forge metal, be used as a fire tool (like picking up the lid of a dutch oven), dig holes, drag heavy things, gaff hook bulky things, opening things, shutting things, prying things open... You can even use either end as a weapon, one side stuns, the other kills, god forbid it ever be needed like that though. And, in a pinch, it can also be used as a thrown weapon if the balance is good enough, but usually it's better to keep something like that in hand.

Nails - You'd be amazed how many people have the wrong nail for the job. Make sure you get a range of lengths, widths, and types. You may very well need a lot of nails before Situation X is over.

Lumber - Some terminte-treated 8' long 2x4"s, a couple of 2x6"s, a couple of 4x4"s, stored in a dry place, like the wall of a garage, will last a very long time, and in the event of an emergency are extremely useful items that are a pain in the rear to get. That's probably a good $20-50 worth of lumber, so don't buy it all at once unless you're ready. However, one 8' length of any of the above each time you visit the hardware store is a lot easier to manage (maybe $5ea?), and can be spread out gradually over one's abilities to collect it. If space and funds permit, consider a sheet or two of plywood as well.

2 Hand Saws - One for metal, one for wood. Another one of those items that, in Situation X, will get used a lot. The Stanley 20-045 Fat Max Hand Saw seems to be an overwhelmingly positive reviewed one, but again, the important thing is at least you GET a saw. If you've got the money, get a stonecutting saw as well.

A box of wood pencils - Pencils store forever, don't go bad, write when wet or upside down, can be sharpened with a rock or your teeth if desperate, can be used as short dowells for reinforcement, can be used as pegs, splints, touraquets, land position markers, the shavings can be used as kindling for a fire, and let's not forget it tried and true method of staking a vampire through the heart

Needle-nosed pliers - My father bought Channel Lock, so that's what I get, and I'm happy with them, but I don't have any review pages to show on those. Of the three tools you'll need most in Situation X, this is the third, and the one you'll least want to have cheaped out on. As it is made of moving parts, it will almost certainly be the first to break. The cheaper it is, the sooner it will break (or bend, or scar the clamps).


With those tools, you can improvise almost any job or create almost any tool you need as far as construction and rebuilding goes in the event that Situation X or the closure of stores lasts longer than a few days. Absolutley there are other tools that would be nice to have, but the ones above you just can't cheap out on, because they are, by and large, irreplacable once the stores close, without a loooot of work. Arguably, a knife, screw driver, etc, could all be considered vital, but they're also the most common items around, and fairly easy to fashion out of crude materials.

To be honest, I'd recommend these tools at each of your primary locations, one set at home, one set at each of the 4 cardinal destinations in a cache. That'd be the ideal situation, but at the very least have one full set of the above, wherever you intend to be going to survive Situation X.

I maintain that there are two essential items that need to be on your belt EVRYTIME YOU STEP OUT THE DOOR. No exceptions. I don't care where you work, what you do, you need a solid folding knife and a solid multitool. In addition, it's always nice to have a good sheath knife.

Why, you ask, is this imperative?

Alright, how do you intend to eat things in the field? With your hands? What about cutting stuff? Yeah, using a hatchet to improvise bandages is not a brilliant idea. What about screwing or unscrewing things? Cutting wire? Opening cans?

We do cutting daily for food prep and basic tasks. This won't change. In fact, if Situation X occurs, expect MORE cutting is required. If things ever get skanky, well, that folding knife will be your last line of defence. As for the multitool- if you need to do a fine manual task, odds are you'll need something found on a multitool.

It's my personal opinion (and experience) that Gerber makes the finest blades and multitools on the planet. Period. The Canadian Army is going to issue me a Gerber multitool, so I really don't have much point taking one with me. If you're not as lucky as me, I suggest the Recoil. I've had the pleasure of using it before. www.gerbergear.com...

If I go somewhere, I take a Gerber Mini-Covert folding knife with me: www.gerbergear.com...

I'm rather fond of the little sucker. Served me well. Flicks out quick, one handed opening and all that. I'd suggest it to anyone.

There are alternatives, of course. Cold Steel makes some decent blades. I own one, in fact.

What it comes down to is personal choice, and brand name. I hate to say it, but there are maybe three or four blade brands that I would depend on in Situation X. Cold Steel, Gerber, Benchmade, and SOG. That's it. I'm not an expert by any means, and people may not agree with me. But any knife not made by those foru companies I've ever handled has largely been junk. And junk isn't something you want with you in an emergency.

DE

Oh, absolutely, the knife and multitool are without a doubt two of the most useful items, and I would heartily recommend fine quality of both as the next two most important tools to get. I didn't mean to knock either in the least.

I was just thinking along the lines of availability after Situation X as well as improvisability. Due to the commonality of knives, and the ease of fashioning a crude one to just barely "get by" on a job, I didn't rate them in the top 3 most critical tools.

A good claw hammer, especially one of a metal stronger than iron, is almost impossible to improvise, and if you've ever tried to fashion one from a stick and a rock, or hammer a nail with a piece of lead pipe, you know exactly what I mean by that.

The same goes for a saw. You just can't improvise a saw very easily at all, and the commonly available cheap ones aren't going to stand up to more than a few days of solid use.

Needlenose pliers, in retrospect, I think I'd put in lower priority than a multitool. Both are still hugely important, but I think multitools will be a lot less easily replacable.

I guess what I'm saying is that good hammers and saws are items that will "run out" a lot faster than knives and most of the tools of a multitool. It's really hard to make even a barely servicable hammer or saw, even with a basic forge. Not so hard to obtain or make a knife, even without a forge.

Again, I'm not understating their importance of either, and you sold me on the multitool as being one of the top 3 most critical tools to own before Situation X. And I still think a knife is a critical part of a good bug-out-bag. I just think the hammer and saw are going to be so much harder to replace.

Oh, almost forgot to mention. If you nest a thread to this one, on the advice of Nygdan, let's tag it as "survivalist series" as this will make them much easier to locate in the future as we get more and more threads on the subject going. Currently there's not an incredible number of threads, but quite a few for only a couple of weeks passing. Given another month or two, there could be hundreds.

The good news is that the drive for a survivalist forum is picking up momentum quite nicely and is getting some mod attention as well, which is also good. Each time they give us advice on how to play ball, I recommend we do.

New link nest Survivalist: Learning/Teaching Trades. It occurs to me that we each should start learning a trade skill and sharing the knowledge with each other. Not a whole of need for tech support people in the event of Situation X.

I apologize for not being active much lately, I'm learning trade skills and it's eating up most of my online and offline time. I noticed that activity on these threads is in decline. I hope that my recent absence is not the reason for that. I realize that preparedness can seem relatively unimportant compared to the day to day demands on one's time, but I hope it remains as goal for all here.

Here is the updated link nest:

Attitude

Learning/Teaching Trades

How to defend your self, on a budget.

ATS Guide To Survival

Are survivalists as rife in the UK?

Focus: Strategies for Adapting to Climate Change, and Human Survival

Nuclear Fallout Survival

Situation X

Bugging Out

AWOL Bag

Making Shelters

How to Build an Underground Shelter

Vehicles and Transportation

The 5 Laws of Gold: (aka the conspiracy of the rich)

A "Survivalists" Forum or Research Project?



Be Prepared.

I still maintain that stockpiling gear will never replace your own mind...if you are stuck in an extended situation without help from others, you need to know how to live off the land. If you know how to live off the land without any equipment at all, and know how to make your own equipment, shelter, get food, water, etc. with nothing, then you basically don't have to worry about that kind of situation because you KNOW you can handle it.

I also think that some of the "survivalist" types are quite fanatical with regards to all of the weapons and ammunition stockpiling, like it is some preparation for a civil war. It's a bit sad that the first thing people think of is the need to kill others, rather than help them in a time of crisis...it seems like some of these guys are just sitting around waiting for some crisis to happen, so they can go off into the woods and start sniping their neighbors.

This is an interesting article about "Why the Survivalists are Wrong"...not saying I agree with that premise, but his ideas seem to be true for a lot of the posts I have seen here and elsewhere in regards to disasters and survival.

transitionculture.org...

Originally posted by Shoktek
I still maintain that stockpiling gear will never replace your own mind.

I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone here who will disagree with that sentiment.

Without question, the sharpest tool in your inventory should be your mind. It is the one thing they can't take from you... Well, they can, but at that point, the question of survival is a rather moot one. As long as you have your mind, you have a chance, and the better, more informed and educated that mind is, the better that chance will be.

That said, even the most brilliant of doctors in the world would prefer to go into surgery properly equipped. The most educated of engineers would prefer to have something to work out their formulas on. The most experienced of tradesmen would prefer to have their tools.

Now, what we prefer is not always what we get, and there is simply no guarentee you will be able to reach any of your caches of supplies and equipment, or even if they will still be there if you could. However, hedging bets in your favor certainly cannot hurt, and even the best in a particular field will need the right equipment to get the best and most efficient results.

Originally posted by Shoktek
I also think that some of the "survivalist" types are quite fanatical with regards to all of the weapons and ammunition stockpiling, like it is some preparation for a civil war. It's a bit sad that the first thing people think of is the need to kill others, rather than help them in a time of crisis.

In America you will certainly find this to be the case, and I've noticed it as well. With the vote as close as it has been recently, and the voting machines magically failing to work, or rather, only work in favor of the party that was promised by the manufacturers of the voting machine, a lot of Americans feel disenfranchised with their say over how they are governed, and every single time that happened in this country, a helluva lotta people got shot.

Even the waitress at a diner I frequent randomly started talking to me about Survivalism (she noticed I was reading a survival guide). She said she always stockpiles food and water, but her boyfriend said all they needed was a shotgun, and with it they could get anything they really needed in a crisis. That, IMHO, is ignorance at its worst.

A gun is usually a good thing to have in a survival situation. God willing, you never need to use it, and if you do, it'll only be as a deterrant or a hunting tool. But historically, at one point or another, when the fit hits the shan, sometimes people get killed. If it's all the same, I'd rather not be one of them. This does not, however, make the gun a preferable means to an end. That's why we have this nest of threads where people are exchanging information on how to survive, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with guns, because you can't eat or drink guns, they really suck at combatting illness, and are next to worthless as a construction tool.

I'll read that article you linked to and get back to you on that.

Great thread!!

Lots of ideas to ponder, great ideas (I like the deck of cards use to get in shape, will use that, I think...).

After Katrina, I started to build my own "survival chest"; an airtight, floatable container with various items that can be used in an emergency.

I think it would be very difficult to have every tool, supply, weapon you could possibly want in the event of a severe distruption in public services and infrastructure, unless, as one put, you have an entire room filled with goods.

One thing I thought of is preserved food (like MREs) still have a limited shelf-life. If you have a stockpile, you might need to periodically eat what you have and replace it with fresher stock.

When it comes to being in shape, I think it would be better for survival (and health) purposes to focus on exercise a bit more than using a card deck for pushups and stuff.

If you have to, could you run 4 or 5 miles without stopping?

If not, running 3-5 days a week, building up to 5 or 6 miles at a time is a great way to get into shape.

Also, raw strength is something that can't be overlooked. You should be able to bench press 200 pounds, squat and deadlift at least 300 pounds, as well as be able to perform at least 50 situps or pushups in one set, and at least 15 pullups and dips in one set. You may not think this is necessary, but there could be people that are trapped under large objects, things that need moving, lifting, etc. I was pretty happy that I had worked my deadlift up to almost 400 last summer when I went ATVing and was able to lift the vehicle from deep into the sand when it got buried, on my own. You just never know when it may come in handy, so start lifting 2-3 days a week. It's good for the bones, muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc...statistics have shown that strength trainers tend to do very well in traumatic physical accidents because of the increased strength of the body.

If anyone wants any advice on an exercise or diet program btw, let me know, it's probably my one area of expertise.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by thelibra
She said she always stockpiles food and water, but her boyfriend said all they needed was a shotgun, and with it they could get anything they really needed in a crisis. That, IMHO, is ignorance at its worst.

Yea, too bad that this guy would be one of the first to get mobbed, killed, and looted if he tries something like this. Unless you live in a big city, I don't think the free-for-all fighting/anarchy type scenario would really be a concern. Sure, there would be a few people who would do this sort of thing, but I really think that most of the survivalists are really underestimating the decency and goodness of their fellow humans...

"Do you know what a pessimist is? A man who thinks everybody is as nasty as himself, and hates them for it." - George Bernard Shaw

[edit on 7-11-2006 by Shoktek]

Congratulations all, we now have a real "Survivalist" forum!

Thank you to all of you who contributed threads, posts, and interest into this forum topic, and extra super-sized thanks to the staff of ATS for creating this little patch of cyberspace for the more preparedness-minded.

As soon as UKWizard finishes moving the threads over here I'll do an updated link nest.

I was curious as to whether or not the specific classes and categories of situation should be restated in a new "Sticky" thread or not? It seemed like a pretty good system and common frame of reference for giving your potential thread-readers a scale of survivability in your posts.

Example, "..this particular item would do you well for natural disasters up to a class 3" or "...if you want to survive a class 4 NBC, here's what you'll need to do..."

While the tables and information are currently in this thread, it's buried under a lot of posts and thread-nests. I wouldn't mind re-condensing the information into a sticky to be used as a common frame of reference, but didn't want to be presumptuous either. Is it something y'all feel would be helpful?

The classes and categories of a situation is great info, thelibra. I think it would be great to have it in a separate sticky or a regular thread.

I second that

Originally posted by enjoies05
The classes and categories of a situation is great info, thelibra. I think it would be great to have it in a separate sticky or a regular thread.

Originally posted by angryamerican
I second that

Alrighty, thanks guys, I'll go ahead and start compiling the info into a new sticky thread then. Anyone know how I request a thread be made a sticky?

Say, "Hey Mods, can you make this a sticky?"?

That might work