John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

reply to post by zorgon


Now that's really funny! I can imagine what it would look like if they were trying to fake orbital images with a spherical model.

The scale model was probably used for Lunar Chart (LAC) Series. Typical "sickly greenish color". Maybe they colored it green so that nobody would mistake it for the real stuff?

]OH! And don't forget you are supposed to be viewing this from a small spacecraft window...

Don't you see there is no relief on the sphere?

Your absolutely right Herr WeedWacker 'air brushing' is a way over used term... it doesn't give the real labor involved due credit.

As a professional GIS and CAD software designer for the past 14 years I admire the skill. Perfect maps, all done without computers!

reply to post by nablator


Why don't you use the one I posted here?

Or you can use this level-adjusted version.

Too bad this image is not that sharp.

I see they made two models, one (the smaller one) had relief it seems. However, they would never have reached the level of 3D detail needed to fake orbital images such as the Apollo 17 frames we've been discussing.

(Could someone please explain why this appears as an "external image"?)

[edit on 2008-2-22 by nablator]

reply to post by ArMaP


Actually I got ISD_highres_AS17_AS17-151-23138 from eol.jsc.nasa.gov (that's a secret, don't let Zorgon know about all the 300 4400x4600 pics HIDDEN in the root directory).
Thanks for posting the links.

Originally posted by nablator(that's a secret, don't let Zorgon know about all the 300 4400x4600 pics HIDDEN in the root directory).

Thanks for posting the links.

Ummm gee I wonder did you get that addy from my DATABASE?

www.thelivingmoon.com...

You guys crack me up... secret my a...

300? out of how many THOUSANDS they took?



Of course you could try the front door... leads ya to a lot more than 300 images

eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

[edit on 22-2-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by nablator


nablator, you have posted really excellent finds of some stunning Lunar pics.

Am I the only one, sorry to take an offense here, to find a remark by Zorgon, directed at me, as a subtle slur? Is this the kind of thing that gets past the T&Cs because he has 'senority' here??

Let me clarify -- The esteemed Capt Lear was fond of referring to NASA as 'NAZA'...a not so subtle inference to the fact that ex-Nazi scientists, who came to 'our' side after WWII were recruited due to their experiences with the Nazi missile experiments. (Of course, there were OTHER ex-Nazis working in the USSR too, n'est pas?) Guess they were the dumber ones...under threat of death or imprisonment if they failed, yet - they failed!

I believe it is well known, to most who have been around ATS for a while, that the aforementioned JL and the current 'Zorgon' are...'comrades'...just trying to find the correct term...

When Zorgon used the 'honorific' in a recent post, to me...calling me 'herr WeedWhacker' I saw through his ruse...clever as it was meant to be...to add an insult, but to do it within T&C guidelines. Courtesy is mandatory...but snide slights, even clever ones, begin to push the envelope of courtesy, IMO.

Am I too sensitive? NO! Emphatically no. I just will not be assumed to be a fool, or to be played as one, when I have a valid opinion to contribute, even if it's wrong. This is a discussion board. I am entitled to my opinon, and to disagree (courteously) with others.

Ain't that the point???

[I do not, nor ever have, worked at NASA. I started flying airplanes when I was 14...I enjoyed studying science, and feel comfortable in those realms. Really far-out theories about atmosphere on the Moon, hollow Moon, artificial Moon...these just strike me as, well...as science fiction, something I have been a fan of my whole life. But, blurry pictures from various sources being interpreted by people who want to see something that may or not be there...it's like seeing the Pope in the Pizza, IMO]

And just because I can spell doesn't make me a darned ENGLISH TEACHER! (private message to you-know-who). See, I just care about accuracy, and knowledge...stuff like that.

*climbing off of soap box*....thank you very much...

decided to add...oh dear, I feel a lightning bolt headed my way...sometimes these things should be hashed out in a U2U, I know, but I felt a need to point something out, since U2Us have gone nowhere, privately, so far...

Still, to keep the topic relevant...there are going to be a lot more Moon pictures coming, no? Say, late 2008? What is it called...LRO? Can't wait.



[edit on 23-2-2008 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Am I the only one, sorry to take an offense here, to find a remark by Zorgon, directed at me, as a subltle slur?

Most likely... as I use that quite commonly with friends and foes alike...

Herr means sir or mr. in my native tongue... and I use it the same way you use N'est pas? a lot, mon Professeur Anglais

The esteemed Capt Lear was fond of referring to NASA as 'NAZA'...

The Nazi's had Connections to Aldebaran...

Isn't it curious that NASA sends a probe there inviting them to come visit?

"In 1972 NASA "sent out an invitation for extraterrestrials to visit Earth.
A map showing the location of Earth was attached to the Pioneer 10 spacecraft", sent towards the star Aldebaran. Aldebaran is about 68 light years away and it will take Pioneer over 2 million years to reach it.

www.greatdreams.com...

I believe it is well known, to most who have been around ATS for a while, that the aforementioned JL and the current 'Zorgon' are...'comrades'...just trying to find the correct term...

The correct term would be close friend since we met on the John Lear moon thread and found we both lived in Vegas... and I host his material on my website...

I just will not be assumed to be a fool,

Well considering your constant corrections of everyone, your continuous dragging up the T&C in just about every post, your inability to stay focused on any topic, and particularly your dragging in references to private communications that were made to keep it civil in the thread and deal with issues privately I would say you do that very well on your own...

:shk: "If the shoe fits..."

Now I have been more than patient with you, but it is obvious to me that despite my attempts via U2U's that you do not understand a word I say to you... so I have a very simple solution...

And just because I can spell doesn't make me a darned ENGLISH TEACHER!

No but your constant correction of every one else's typos does

Ignore button being activated... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Engaged

Dang I wish we had sound effects

Originally posted by nablator
I see they made two models, one (the smaller one) had relief it seems.

The one in the background of that image? That's a mosaic of lunar orbiter pictures... for reference

Here is another relief type they made...



and this is the bigger 'globe'



All in all it seems a lot of expense to go to to make maps, considering they already had high detail topographical maps two years before Apollo 11... and they want us to believe they used telescopes to get the data

www.lpi.usra.edu...

Have a look at Copernicus Map made by HH Schmitt and Shoemaker... 1967

Kinda interesting... that connection...

'A mining we will go.... "

Originally posted by zorgon

Isn't it curious that NASA sends a probe there inviting them to come visit?

"In 1972 NASA "sent out an invitation for extraterrestrials to visit Earth.
A map showing the location of Earth was attached to the Pioneer 10 spacecraft", sent towards the star Aldebaran. Aldebaran is about 68 light years away and it will take Pioneer over 2 million years to reach it.

Here is it:

Plaque from Pioneer 10

Source:
www.patrickkellogg.com...

reply to post by internos


Thanks, Internos...

I hope reasoned people will read my posts, and Zorgon's responses, and judge for themselves...

The ability to cleverly 'quote' selections from one's original post, and then 'spin' them out of context, is indeed suberb. Bill O'Reilly should hire some of these people to be on his writing staff on the 'No Spin Zone'.

And a lie, no matter how many times you care to repeat it, will not make it a truth.

Ah yes Tall well built, blonde hair and blue eyes... marvelous specimens of the Aryan race...

The Aldebaranians will be pleased

Here is a clip from the movie "Secrets of the Third Reich"



Look familiar?

Princess Leia from Aldebaran...

Google Video Link

reply to post by weedwhacker


weedwhacker: please don't take Zorgon's attacks personnally. I enjoy reading Zorgon's attempts at spreading FUD aimed at belittling NASA's achievements. So many (not very subtle) insinuations and far fetched arguments are presented as proof. I mean come on, Princess Leia is from Alderaan not Aldebaran. What credibility does Zorgon still have after this TERRIBLE mistake? Does it prove Zorgon's is a Sith Lord? Of course!

Zorgon: your website is very interesting, I'm only starting to read it. I hope you don't mind if I check everything and don't take your statements at face value. I'm not easy to convince.

Originally posted by nablatorI hope you don't mind if I check everything and don't take your statements at face value. I'm not easy to convince.

Hmmm The Leia thing didn't slip by huh? Dagnabbit!

Nope I don't mind... I started out as skeptic myself, though perhaps not quite as doubting of EVERYTHING... and as I have said many times... its a personal quest... shared by many as time goes on, hence the collection at Pegasus

One day I will even have it all organized [yeah right ]

But I am more interested in the documents than the pictures, but most here have to be forced to even LOOK at a link, much less actually read something then follow it up.. case in point the AFRL Stargate/Wormhole papers...

My 'beef' with 'some' skeptics is what is their purpose? They are obviously not interested in finding any truth, but only wish to debunk, without even really looking at something... (several have actually told me why bother to look? I know you are wrong... ) ummm yeah okay...

But lets take the pictures... how many times do I have to hear "I see nothing but rocks... your crazy..." from the same person? Okay so you see nothing... thanks for the input... so now why are you still here?

See the point? Obviously there are many who DO see these things...

I guess I just don't understand the skeptics need to keep telling me they only see a rock... yet they come to all the anomaly threads to say the same thing...

So by all means question all I have at the Pegasus site... that's why it's there... to be looked at...

So far I have only two people on ignore... Perhaps its time to make better use of that button I am not here to debate with those who's only purpose is to drag you into an argumentative debate that usually ends in name calling etc... and only serves to derail the thread (I have seen five pages of this after one post... and all this did was completely bury the subject of that post...)

I am here to find like minded people who enjoy the search and have something to contribute. And so far that has been quite lucrative... I have met some amazing people through ATS and some very highly placed...

One of my pet peeves is people who come on to a thread and make all sorts of claims about what their job is, or what qualifications they have... but never post anything to back this up... yet expect to be treated as experts...

Yet these same people are the first top attack anyone who actually DOES present credentials and then spend a lot of time attacking those credentials...

If you are ging to claim 'expert' status... slap that paper on the table so we can all look at it... and check your background...

Otherwise yours is just your opinion

Originally posted by nablator
What credibility does Zorgon still have after this TERRIBLE mistake?

Credibility? I had THAT? Sheesh who knew?

And what does that buy you? That and 3 bucks might get you a coffee at Starbucks...

I'm not easy to convince.

Just out of curiosity...

What would it take to convince YOU?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by nablatorI hope you don't mind if I check everything and don't take your statements at face value. I'm not easy to convince.

One of my pet peeves is people who come on to a thread and make all sorts of claims about what their job is, or what qualifications they have... but never post anything to back this up... yet expect to be treated as experts...

Yet these same people are the first top attack anyone who actually DOES present credentials and then spend a lot of time attacking those credentials...

If you are ging to claim 'expert' status... slap that paper on the table so we can all look at it... and check your background...

Otherwise yours is just your opinion

Guessing part of Zorgon's point is that I am one of 'these same people' because I haven't been able to photocopy my license and medical and FCC RadioTelephon Operators permit and post it, as the great JL did...of course I knew who JL is! I just asked once why I never saw nor heard of him since he claimed to work at the same little scenic airline in Las Vegas at around the same time I worked there (late 1970s). I know about the Tri-motor that this airline owned, I gave him a name of a guy who I KNEW flew the Tri-motor...yet I am called a fake?

As to credentials...or 'expert' status...I can only say...'Hello kettle? This is pot...'

reply to post by zorgon

What would it take to convince YOU?

Facts. And serious research.

Don't be paranoid. I am not against you, on the contrary. I am not an expert of image analysis or lunar geology. I am not going to debunk your claims. You may be right for all I know. People who see nothing but rocks on the moon are the majority, even on ATS. They don't bother posting in this thread because they believe there is no serious point to discuss. You need to build a better argument. I'm here to help, however small my contribution will be. Did you read my posts about the location of the "walled compound" and Daedalus?

There is a basic misunderstanding there. The issue is with the method. I would like to see a well presented case, not half-baked attempts to discredit NASA. Don't take me wrong: I agree 100% with critical thinking, you have all my support when trying to uncover the truth, whatever it is. The same standard applies to your claims, they must be critically examined. You need skeptics to point out flaws in your logic, that you need to refute if you want to build a serious case. On your web site, you present interpretations before analysis. You and JL are shooting yourself in the foot with each claim "this is a tower/city/airport/dancing elephant". If you're only interested in tabloid style, don't be surprised readers won't take you seriously. Don't jump at conclusions before considering at least a few possible explanations.

Credibility? I had THAT? Sheesh who knew?

You don't understand irony either in my last posts about a "secret" directory and credibility.

Originally posted by nablator
Facts. And serious research.

Too vague... I was looking for something more singular

Don't be paranoid. I am not against you, on the contrary.

Moi? Paranoid? Ummmmmm Not
But is this really about one AGAINST another? I though it was a forum to exchange ideas... but your right... with all the drama going on last few months you could be right...

I am not an expert of image analysis or lunar geology. I am not going to debunk your claims. You may be right for all I know. People who see nothing but rocks on the moon are the majority, even on ATS.

I have no problem with debunking... if one takes the time to show with facts and serious research WHY I might be wrong... but just saying "They are rocks ... you need a psychiatrist!" doesn't cut it Doesn't necessarily change my opinion, but I am more apt to take that person seriously

They don't bother posting in this thread because they believe there is no serious point to discuss.

Well I don't know which side is in the majority... perhaps we ought to run a silent vote I agree some may not post as they see no point, and that is fine... but there are others who don't post because A) one liners like "Wow really cool" are not allowed; B) see the 'intimidation' meted out to those who dare speak out with a 'way out there theory' and do not wish to be in the firing line; and C) They do not have the skills nor the time to make useful contributions, so just remain spectators

I know this to be true because of the U2U's and emails I receive... and even some from skeptics...

But that is all really irrelevant. What is relevant is that its not all about pictures

You need to build a better argument.

Yes and we have tried... but it matters little what is presented... the result is the same... Do you know how many official military documents I have posted in many threads that support what I say? Its like pulling teeth from a snail to even get people to follow the links let alone read them..

Yet Mike Singh's 'tabloid' approach nets amazing results.... go figure

:shk:

I'm here to help, however small my contribution will be. Did you read my posts about the location of the "walled compound" and Daedalus?

Help is good... but I did just glance over your posts and filed the images to study when I have time... right now I have little time to work on images or webpages... and don't have a staff yet

There is a basic misunderstanding there. The issue is with the method. I would like to see a well presented case, not half-baked attempts to discredit NASA.

Well I don't really have anything against NASA... They are a front and they have three faces. I am more interested in the 'other' space program... but no matter what you say... the majority of people use NASA as a catch all for anything Space...

Besides if NASA was SERIOUSLY worried about this there would have been actions taken... This might still happen with the internet 'crackdown' but I doubt it...

You need skeptics to point out flaws in your logic, that you need to refute if you want to build a serious case.

Well this may surprise you but there are a few skeptics here I take very seriously. ArMaP is one... and he has been very helpful on occasion... And there is another who shall remain nameless who surprised the heck out of me by telling me he works on the very ships I am seeking... but holds me to a bond to not tell...

How do I know he is not 'pulling my leg'? Believe me I know...

On your web site, you present interpretations before analysis.

Well at this point in time I am still in the info gathering stage... not the hard analysis stage... the reason is the overwhelming amount of information that has been finding its way to my inbox... Pegasus has been around a little over a year, and despite your analysis of our "tabloid style' you might be surprised at the list of names that take us very seriously and understand the presentation... perhaps one day when I know who you are I might share some of the real stuff... but you would have to sign several hundreds oaths first

You and JL are shooting yourself in the foot with each claim "this is a tower/city/airport/dancing elephant".

The elephants were to help others pinpoint a location... worked too...

If you're only interested in tabloid style, don't be surprised readers won't take you seriously. Don't jump at conclusions before considering at least a few possible explanations.

Well at this point in time the opposite is true... I am actually surprised at the level of those who take us seriously...

But here we have a problem... and this is what REALLY SUCKS... many times you are given real solid info, but you cannot reveal your source. Now I know skeptics pounce on this and cry 'foul' but that is the reality

Let me toss out an example... you find a certain patent that is in effect a 'cloaking device' (and a whole lot more.. ) The patent is available in the public domain. So you track down the inventor and actually get a response...

So now you have the patent, and direct contact with the inventor... and then after telling you what he can... adds this...

Hi, Ron...Good Morning!

Thanks for the note and you certainly touch on points of similarity and interest (proving that great minds think alike!).

I am free to talk about any of my published US Patents which are in the public domain. I am, however, under an edict from DoD under the NSA to 'report any inquiries relative to the stealth patent'. I had a phone call from a person who identified himself as an 'Undersectetary of Defense' and the person read a statement to me which I later found was excerpted from the National Security Act, as amended. I was 'ordered' to report any inquiries of any kind, by anyone, to DoD relative to that case (patent). I've only had to do that one time in 20 years when a group of Isreali's, based in Philly, contacted me relative to undertaking collaboration on some 'project' in Haifa. I reported this as instructed and the group 'disappeared' shortly thereafter.

There is a whole lot more to this...

What happened is I was looking for an answer to something space related, only to fall into a very deep rabbit hole and found much more than I bargained for...

So therin lies the problem with making a 'serious presentation' John has been in this for decades, has CIA background and a Father that worked with TT Brown on anti gravity for the DoD in the fifties (Project Winterhaven) So what to do?

You can 'spill the beans' and then the info stops, because the word will spread quickly that you cannot be trusted, or you can toss the info 'out there" like fishing and see what comes back...

Even if you gave the name of a source, it would do no good without documentation... but the very possession of such documentation is a treasonable offense...

So all you can do is use the info they supply you to track down hints and obscure references that are in the public domain

You don't understand irony either in my last posts about a "secret" directory and credibility.

Perhaps I missed it LOL I claim sleep deprivation

But if ya want a 'secret' directory... I have one that has all the rover pictures in full living color... Shhh don't tell anyone cuz last time they moved it

Originally posted by nablator...They don't bother posting in this thread because they believe there is no serious point to discuss.

Ahh, I see you take us seriously. In that case, we shall endeavor to take you as seriously.

We welcome your help, if I may be allowed to speak for the group...

I see you have your 600th point. Most excellent!

So, I was looking around for some high-res images of the area regarding the William Rutledge (retiredafb) Apollo 20 hoax stuff just to see what the area described as the ancient ship really looks like. I found one pic on the new ASU hi-res site that shows that area. I downloaded the 200mb png to take a look.
However, the “ship” area looks pretty boring in this pic.




But, while roaming around this pic looking for the ship, I found something that didn’t fit in with it’s surrounding terrain.



It is most certainly not a film artifact

It is most likely casting a left-to-right shadow on the lunar surface based on the sunlight direction derived from crater shadows in the pic.

It is probably a natural out-cropping rock formation with lighter albedo, casting a shadow (with no other similar examples in the entire pic)

It is possible that it is something else



Source (only visible in the 218mb png or better)

Location:



I don’t have enough memory on my PC to view the available 1gb raw scan from this site. So, anyone who’s up for it, please feel free to download the 1gb file and crop a pic of this anomaly


[edit on 28-2-2008 by Zarniwoop]