Bill would ease Interrogation Limits

And still this horror continues

Yahoo News

Ugh.. I can believe this bill might be passed.. It sickens me that the American people just dont care about this.. People are so tired of hearing about Bush and his crappy little war that they just shun him.. turn their backs and ignore anything they hear about this turd..

The deal also could open the door to aggressive techniques that test the bounds of international standards of prisoner treatment.

That's it.. lets just defy the law.. and if we cant defy it.. we'll just make new ones.. defy human rights.. humane treatment of people... What's next.. torturing our own soldiers before they make it through basic training? to see if they have what it takes...

Bush's national security adviser,Stephen Hadley , said the president plans to use this authority to "clarify" Geneva Convention obligations by executive order, which must be published in the Federal Register

So he's just going to change whatever he doesnt like.. ugh..

U.S. officials say the Supreme Court ruling — which also determined the trials Bush established to prosecute the terrorists were illegal — threw cold water on the program because of fears interrogators could be prosecuted for war crimes.

They SHOULD be prosecuted.. all of them.. every last CIA agent involved in this attrocity.. and the people who ordered it.. including the President and Vice President..

Human rights lawyers disagree on whether this flexibility, along with the bill's definition of cruel treatment, would endorse such techniques as "waterboarding" — a method intended to simulate the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding and similar interrogation methods allegedly used by the CIA are not specifically identified as war crimes although some say these techniques could qualify as cruel and inhumane.

I've said it before.. I'll say it again.. Strapping someone to a wooden board and immersing them in water until they are drowning.. isnt "simulated drowning" THATS DROWNING!!!!!!!

But, legal experts agree, in the end it will be up to the president to determine when most interrogation methods go too far. The bill bans detainees from protesting their detention and treatment in court.

Well.. that's just great.. for a man who is waging war on the world because he WANTS to... What is too far?? He's already killed thousands and thousands of people.. destroyed cities.. and cultures... what is too far? Someone.. please answer that for me...

[edit on 23-9-2006 by Ox]

Originally posted by Ox
And still this horror continues

The deal also could open the door to aggressive techniques that test the bounds of international standards of prisoner treatment.

That's it.. lets just defy the law.. and if we cant defy it.. we'll just make new ones.. defy human rights.. humane treatment of people...

Bush's national security adviser,Stephen Hadley , said the president plans to use this authority to "clarify" Geneva Convention obligations by executive order, which must be published in the Federal Register

So he's just going to change whatever he doesnt like.. ugh..

But, legal experts agree, in the end it will be up to the president to determine when most interrogation methods go too far. The bill bans detainees from protesting their detention and treatment in court.

Well.. that's just great.. for a man who is waging war on the world because he WANTS to... What is too far?? He's already killed thousands and thousands of people.. destroyed cities.. and cultures... what is too far? Someone.. please answer that for me...

This administration plays the same legal games with climate change, public health, you name it.

It's all about playing everything for the edge, and profit - and sliding through on technicalities.

There is NO COMMITMENT AT ALL to serve the best interests of the nation or ordinary Americans.

Of course not.. and youre right it is all for profit and wealth.. its personal gain.. nothing more..
I'm throwing a huge party when this administration leaves office.. Everyone is invited.. unless you're part of the 30(something)% that still thinks these jerks are doing a good job, then you can go have youre own party..

This administration has to be the WORST in the history of the country.. I mean.. Atleast Richard Nixon had the good sense the resign..

Originally posted by Ox
Atleast Richard Nixon had the good sense the resign..

Ive never liked dick nixon, his administration often displayed bad judgement on a criminal level. However nixon was man interested in peaceful coexistance as was demonstrated by his establishing detente with both the china & the soviets and in the end his administration did bring an end to our involvement in vietnam. Nixon desired to be considered a great president and wanted to be popular with the people. The present administration doesnt give a damn about either of these things.

Im saddened that our government has devolved to such a degree that the nixion administration is considered the "good old days".

Yeah.. it's sad to admit that the Presidents who were involved in criminal acts against the opposing party are now viewed as good Presidents.. It seems now.. or is blatantly evident now that the current administration doesnt care about anything but harming the world and its inhabitants.. They've declared war on the world.. if youre unpatriotic you must support terrorism. ugh. it's a joke.. And they dont care about credibility, they'll just rewrite what they dont like.. change the law to please themselves.. What's next bar code tattoo's? RFID chips in all citizens.. thumbprinting and retina scans.. for everyone.. This is the biggest nazi administration since Hitler..

Has anybody read the list of nono under the new bill, I wonder what kind of person can allow, mutilation, chemical testing, inhuman treatment, and death on another human being even without knowing if is Innocent or guilty.

It has to be a true sadist or a very mental sick person and the people inflicting that kind of torture is not somebody that I will like to be as a friend, been marry too or have as a neighbor also smiling at my children.

Because if it was specified on the new bill it most have been in the old one.

Are we truly talking about our own elected government and not Hitler in nazi Germany?

I am very disappointed.

Marg I tried to do a little research.. and I would like to know where you found the methods you described... I found this Link

Which has its own methods that I believe are HIGHLY unlikely being used...

The techniques sought by the CIA are: induced hypothermia; forcing suspects to stand for prolonged periods; sleep deprivation; a technique called "the attention grab" where a suspect's shirt is forcefully seized; the "attention slap" or open hand slapping that hurts but does not lead to physical damage; the "belly slap"; and sound and light manipulation.

Something tells me that going from hypothermia to.. loud music.. uhh NO.. that's a bit of a stretch... more like hypothermia to water boarding.. or DROWNING..

Several of those techniques chime with information gleaned about interrogation methods used against some serious terror suspects. The New York Times recently reported that Abu Zubaydah, the first al-Qaeda member captured after the September 11 attacks, was kept in a freezing cell until he went blue, and later assailed with loud Red Hot Chili Peppers music.

yeah.. after he was electrocuted probably.. and freezing cell.. more like.. a freezer.... or refrigerated truck or something along those lines..

Marg give me a link to where you found those methods if you can please

This was on CNN news.

Grave breaches would include torture, cruel or inhuman treatment, biological experiments, murder, mutilation or maiming, intentionally causing serious bodily injury, rape, sexual assault or abuse and taking hostages.

www.cnn.com...

And with thi bill looking like its going to pass.. or already has passed.. The CIA and the President have not yet divulged the types of methods being used by interogators..

Yahoo News

I know Bush would like the American people and the world to believe that the CIA isnt using methods like.. Electric shock, disfigurement, burning and sexual abuse.. But.. if you believe that isnt happening then you can also believe Bush is a good President..

At a Military controlled detention facility Abu Ghraib.. Military personel were found to be beating prisoners, not for interrogation purposes but it seems for the amusement of the Soldiers.. abuse such as

closed-hand punching, electric shock, terrorizing suspects with dogs, disfigurement and sexual abuse,

This was at a KNOWN military installation.. What's happening at an unknown CIA prison, where the numbers and indentities of the prisoners are unknown..

An updated U.S. Army manual released this month, which applies to all the armed services but not the CIA, explicitly bans withholding food and water, performing mock executions, using electric shock, burning and causing other pain and waterboarding, among other techniques.

Which means Bush hasnt done a damn thing, he's still allowing these methods to take place.. now all he's doing is protecting himself and the CIA from being prosecuted with war crimes.. The very thing he is doing to the people in U.S. custody..

That is scary when you are made believe that is all for the safe of prisoners but actually is to protect the butts of the same people that are nothing but sadistic murderers when they allow themselves to get involve in this type of unusual and inhumane treatment.

Then you have people screaming that they deserve that kind of treatment but I will like to know if any of the people that support that kind of treatment will allow that kind of torture upon their person of somebody that they love.

Still to this time I can not understand sometimes the mentality of the my own human species.

Just think about it, our own elected president may be a person that get a boost from looking at this type of torture that he wants inflicted on another human.

That is not a sane person.

Once again Marg you hit the nail on the head.. Youre right..

I dont believe in nor condone the use of torture.. it isnt necessary nor is it right.. The human race is the most dangerous species on this planet.. I dont care what anyone says.. And for a President to order these things.. Especially a President who wants to bring "Peace" and "Democracy" to the "World".. he's doing nothing but spreading terror and pain and suffering.. you know.. all those things he's supposedly fighting..

Originally posted by marg6043
This was on CNN news.

Grave breaches would include torture, cruel or inhuman treatment, biological experiments, murder, mutilation or maiming, intentionally causing serious bodily injury, rape, sexual assault or abuse and taking hostages.

www.cnn.com...

Theres no reason whatsoever for this kind of torture. You should never, ever do BIOLOGICAL EXPERIMENTS on someone else! You should never RAPE! You should never MURDER! Comeon what is wrong with people. Like I'v said before how can the person who does these actions EVER SLEEP, EAT or EVEN LIVE.

Shar..

They are comitting crimes.. If you were to murder.. youre a killer.. or rape.. youre a rapist and you get sent to prison.. Kill a few people and youre a murder.. kill a few thousand.. and youre a Government..

They need to be tried for the crimes they are committing.. this isnt interrogation.. this is just to make them suffer.. nothing more

Ox,

I totally agree. You know what comes around goes around. Some of our people gets captured as well. These same things can happen to them now. None the less it should NEVER EVER TAKE PLACE. I cant scream that loud enough.

I'm with you on the screaming part.. but I would never ever condone the abuse of any soldier.. friendly or enemy..
And the American people and I'm afraid the people of the world are misunderstanding whats going on.. Many of them either.. dont care.. or agree with it.. But what the ones who agree with it done realise is that.. These people have done NOTHING wrong.. They were rendered.. from farms, villages, and their houses.. These are terror operations performed by the CIA.. and all Bush is doing is protecting his own rear end because he knows this will all come back to bite him.. But here's the age old question.. If he's not doing anything wrong and neither is the CIA (Which Bush swears to) then why is he protecting himself...

This just keeps making the headlines..

Yahoo News

It seems Senate has passed a bill that will allow the USA to detain and interrogate "Terrorists".. What classifies someone as a terrorist though? I mean if the Government wanted to it could say that anyone who isnt patriotic is a terrorist.. anyone who doesnt support the President is a terrorist.. This is a pretty vague bill to pass.. and frankly .. it makes me want to puke ..

"In this new era of threats, where the stark and sober reality is that America must confront international terrorists committed to the destruction of our way of life, this bill is absolutely necessary," said Sen. Saxby Chambliss R-Ga.

What new era?.. There hasnt been an attack on America since 9/11... wow.. a one off thing.. Oh that's right because the USA has just.. coincidentally foiled every other attack bound to happen right? They just happened to be there to foil the plots..

Both chambers this week approved legislation that sets up "military commissions" to prosecute terrorists. It also would prohibit the severe abuse of detainees, like mutilation and rape, but grant the president leeway to decide which other interrogation techniques are permissible.

So this bill is going to grant just one sadist the power to decide on what interrogation techniques are permissible.. so long as its not mutilation and rape.. that leaves alot of untouched ground. He could order electric shock, drowning.. sleep deprivation, sexual abuse, hypothermia and so on... This is sick sadistic hatred...

Most Democrats opposed the detainee bill, contending that Republicans were pushing through a sloppy measure to sell voters, but not because it made sense. GOP policies on national security "may have been tough, but they certainly weren't smart," said Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.. Of course theyre trying to sell voters with the illusion that they are making the people safer when in fact they are doing NOTHING.. This doesnt make anyone safer, it doesnt help anyone and it doesnt prove anything..

The overall bill would prohibit war crimes and define such atrocities as rape and torture but otherwise would allow the president to interpret the Geneva Conventions, the treaty that sets standards for the treatment of war prisoners.

Why prohibit war crimes if none are being comitted? Why protect yourself against something that isnt there? OHH that's right, because he has comitted war crimes and so has the CIA.. and I think the only attrocity that should be allowed is that these pukes SHOULD be tried for war crimes.. they should be sent to muslim countries and detained and tried there..

The legislation also says the president can "interpret the meaning and application" of international standards for prisoner treatment, a provision intended to allow him to authorize aggressive interrogation methods that might otherwise be seen as illegal by international courts

Because, really!.. What is the Geneva Convention but an outdate piece of paper.. I'm being sarcastic people.. Why is this being allowed? this just goes against the paragraph I wrote earlier about interrogators not being allowed to rape and mutilate etc.. This just makes that null and void.. ugh this makes me want to puke.. This is an outrage.. How can ANYONE allow this to be passed..

Those subject to commission trials would be any person "who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents." Proponents say this definition would not apply to U.S. citizens.

So all of a sudden every illegal alien in the country is considered a terrorist... And the prison camps in America go into full swing.

I feel sickened, dirty and violated.

People, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS!

Our representatives have succeeded to undermine the protections of the U.S. Constitution and The Geneva Convention IN ONE AFTERNOON!

Warrantless Wire Taps and Torture.

The American Dream!

Every last one of you should be writing your congressional representatives.

I did this morning.

Do you feel safer now?

I'm sure the Bush administration does, because both of these bills protect them from
criminal prosecution.


FOLKS, THIS NOVEMBER IS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE!


HEIL BUSH!






[edit on 29-9-2006 by FallenFromTheTree]

I dont think we shoud heil Bush.. although I picked up the sarcasm.. Yes.. he's a Nazi..
And of course he's protecting himself... why wouldnt he? he knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he does it anyway and changes the law around it any way he see's fit.. which is the most disgusting thing I can think of.. Hopefully in November we will clean house and the Republican rule will crumble.. Then all the Democrats need to do is impeach Bush and his administration.

FRICK IT...the Nazi's were at least honest about what they were doing unlike team Bush.

Well there goes Habeas Corpus after 900 + years. If there are any ostriches here that believe that the president will only use that against terrorists and their sympthizers I got a bridge in Brooklyn you could buy. Oh yeah they will use this against anyone they like and mark my word all they will have to do is spread the word that somehow so and so was allied with terrorists or plotting something and the sheep will not look up and the cattle will continue chewing their cuds and the ostriches will dig their heads in a little deeper until they come for them and they will squack and bleat and moo how they have been decieved as they are led to the slaughterhouses.

"....and then they came for me."

Originally posted by Ox
all the Democrats need to do is impeach Bush and his administration.

Sounds like a plan, however where are the democrats? I saw no filibuster or any serious party efforts to block this legislation. Are any democrats vowing to repeal this legislation?

The democrats are so afraid of being labeled as soft on terrorism that they are hiding in a corner with their tails between their legs, rather than speaking their minds with courage. I wouldnt hold your breath waiting for the democrats to imeach bush, as more than likely they will just use the legislation passed by this administration for their own benefit and impeaching bush would impede their ability to do so.

When was the last time you saw any political party pass legislation to take power away from government?

[edit on 29-9-2006 by df1]