Space Exploration Discusion, All thoughts and Ideas Welcome!

I don't know if we have one specifically for this, im sure there is, but it must be old and out of use so I have decided to throw in a refresher. What are your thoughts on Space Exploration? When do you think we should heavily fund our space orginizations? Believe it or not, the earth will not be around forever! Whether our Planet Dies, we run out of natural resorces, or the sun decides to move on. Thats not even counting the countless natural disasters that could affect how we live or if we live at all. Large Asteroids, global warming, ect. 2000 years ago humanity was still wandering around on the planet using our feet and animals, now 2000 years later, we have been to the moon, sent probes to mars, invented countless other machines and such that 40 years ago were thought to be impossible. Anything mankind has invented in their heads has come around to being real. People never thought we would be able to send a manned craft to the bottom of the ocean, but we did that, we conquered long distance flight, nuclear weapons, re-created the Bubonic Plague and such. Its only a matter of time before some geek in his basement builds a lightsaber. Anyways, so space exploration should be one of our top priorities. With new propulsion systems on the way we should be able to make it to mars in less then a year. The government, it is said, is at least 40 years ahead of the commercial sectors. The new OSPREY was probably in its testing phase back in the 70's and its going into use as we speak. So only the government knows what they are doing, though it would be nice to know what their ideas are as far as future space missions and exploration. Was there really a Roswell incident? Were ET's involved? Are we trying to mimic their technolagy for our own gain? Why is Area 51 such a secret? We know what other bases functions are. Who exactly are we compeating with nowadays? China? They may have a large population but they are no where near as technically advaced as the United States. Why hasnt the Joint Space Administration actually talked more about Joint missions to Mars? Why did we stop our Deep Space Probe Projects? Did we get all the info we wanted? That was almost 30 years ago! Our tech is much much much more advanced. Will this war boost our Tech advancements enough to think about excelling our space programs? These are all questions that can be discussed, but feel free to add any pictures or comments you would like, this is an open discussion on anything space related and anything leading up to any of these subjects. We are all open for sugestions and Ideas.

Very Respectfully Posted,
Dark

Space exploration is vital to humanity, as humanity, to survive and thrive, must continue to explore the unknown. I aso believe the answers to many of humanity's problems, mainly overpopulation and low resources, lie beyond our planet, as do many answers to questions not even thought of yet.

Totally agreed on! Nice points, Worm Holes are another mystery...be interesting to see whats on the other side of those. Some say there isnt anything, just gravitational vacuums. But, nothing dissapears.

Exactly. i do not believe anything totally vanishes into nothing. Wormholes could help us bend or break current ideas in physics.

I am also interestede in the idea of foldspace. Folding space and time will help us beat the ol light barrier. Theorhetically, it can be done, as thats ultimately what a black hole/quantum singularity does. If we could harness the black hone, we could seriously go places.

Oh I totally agree on the fold space. That would be just the same as Teleportation in a sence just on a greater scale. And think of the possiblities we could get from that kind of discovery! Nothing would ever be out of reach, exploring would be a breeze. If people only put their money and time into those kinds of discoveries we would advance a lot faster, its rediculous we only have Tech Jumps during wartime. If the amount of money we spend on fighting each other were put twords Joint Research we would be into the next age by last week! Heh.

Sorry I cant answer your U2U yet Skadi! I have a couple more posts to write before im allowed to send to other members. It is a pleasure bending minds with you, your a blast.

V/r
Dark

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
Oh I totally agree on the fold space. That would be just the same as Teleportation in a sence just on a greater scale. And think of the possiblities we could get from that kind of discovery! Nothing would ever be out of reach, exploring would be a breeze. If people only put their money and time into those kinds of discoveries we would advance a lot faster, its rediculous we only have Tech Jumps during wartime. If the amount of money we spend on fighting each other were put twords Joint Research we would be into the next age by last week! Heh.

Well said! I definitely agree here!

I also find I am irritated by scientists who are stuck in a form of dogma who claim this and that are impossible and it breaks some sort of "law" of physics. Especially when everyday we are making new discoveries that are blowing our previous "knowledge" out of the water.

When scientists get back to0 real science instead of the institutionalized dogma they currently follow, we will have real progress. We need to start turning our scientific efforts away from new and horrible ways to kill each other and destroy life on earth (like nukes, bioweapons, chemicals, energy weapons, ect) and turn our attention to the great unknown, which is where wonders and horrors, salvation and damnation lie!

Besides, Im a Star Trek/Star Wars nerd, and flying around space is alot cooler and more fun than sweating my butt off on a missile launcher fixing generators.

Yup! Great minds indeed. None of them have "Vision" anymore, they would rather try and tell other scientist that their ideas will never work and spend their whole lives proving why it wouldnt. Edison had multiple useful inventions, he never stoped to tell someone that something couldnt be done. But in our society now, that seems to be the way to go. That other post is getting hostile o.0 they didnt understand im done posting there I dont think. Ha. Oh wells, it will die shortly.... I hope.

I also find I am irritated by scientists who are stuck in a form of dogma who claim this and that are impossible and it breaks some sort of "law" of physics.

No serious physist I've talked to has ever said that Warping spacetime and Wormholes were impossible. On the other hand, they seemed quite positive about the possiblity of the former and the plausiblity of the latter. They also come in with the big BUT though, and that is usually in the form of the energy argument, which I think is premature at the moment as we don't even have a theory that reconciles Einstein with Quantum Mechanics yet. There are candidates though and a new type of detector hopes to detect Gravitons directly.

physicsweb.org...

Physicists are drawing up plans for a new space mission that could carry out a range of experiments in fundamental physics. The mission, which would involve placing an atom interferometer aboard a spacecraft, aims to observe the effects of quantum gravity for the first time. Other instruments will look for violations of the equivalence principle – one of the foundations of general relativity – as well deviations in Newtonian gravity, which would reveal the existence of higher dimensions. They could even search for hypothetical “dark matter” particles called axions.

The plans are being drawn up by Tim Sumner of Imperial College London, who intends to submit them to the European Space Agency (ESA) later this year. If approved, the mission would cost about Euro 250m and could take off by 2015. Dubbed the GrAnd Unification and Gravity Explorer (GAUGE), the mission also involves researchers from elsewhere in the UK and Europe. It builds on earlier proposals called HYPER and STEP, which would also have carried out tests of fundamental physics but were not selected by ESA for launch.

Now, however, Charles Wang – a theorist from Aberdeen University – has given added scientific motivation to the GAUGE mission. He has shown that an atom interferometer could detect distortions in space–time caused by “gravitons” – particles that are believed to mediate gravity at the “Planck scale” at which all the laws of physics are unified (Class. Quant. Grav. 23 L59). Studying physics at the Planck scale, which occurs at lengths of about 10–35 m and times of about 10–43 s, would be impossible with current particle accelerators.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
Yup! Great minds indeed. None of them have "Vision" anymore, they would rather try and tell other scientist that their ideas will never work and spend their whole lives proving why it wouldnt. Edison had multiple useful inventions, he never stoped to tell someone that something couldnt be done. But in our society now, that seems to be the way to go. That other post is getting hostile o.0 they didnt understand im done posting there I dont think. Ha. Oh wells, it will die shortly.... I hope.

Lol, yeah, even I agree it was getting a bit hostile. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor indeed! When a thread starts becoming a mud slinging match, ususally i go elsewhere before I start breaking rules and getting nasty. This forum is a good place.

Back to the topic at hand. I agree, we are lacking the real scientific pioneers of yesteryear, like Edison, Tesla, Goddard, ect, who lived to invent, explore, and discover. There are numerous backyard scientists out there, however, who are still screwing around with the laws of physics and are the real cowboys of our times.

Like Bob Lazar. if you never heard of him, here a bit about him:

en.wikipedia.org...

He was the guy who blew area 51 wide open for everyone.

He runs his own scientific company that sells stuff for backyard scientists. its called United Nuclear. Stories pop up from tiem to time about Lazar getting introuble because he has all sorts of wild gadgets on his land, liek his own particle accelerator.

Whatever you may think of his Area 51 stories, i think the guy is great. he is basically doing what real scientists should be doing: taking the risk and the leap and going all out on his own to discover, teak, and mess around with scientific laws (i.e. dogma).

What dogma are you talking about?

Thank you for that! Good to know, I dont mind being proven wrong ^-^ Thats why this is a discusion. Thank you very much for that information, sounds like it is going to be a very rewarding mission, now we just have to see if they share their upcoming knowledge with the public or not. Thanks again!

Originally posted by sardion2000
What dogma are you talking about?

Im talking about the Cant do dogma, or scientists discarding things out of hand without really doing research and serious investigation to investigate it further.

And also, that scientists believe if something cannot be stated in a formula or observed in a laboratory or catalogued and pigeonholed, it doesnt exist.

For example, I have seen several scientists state that there are no UFOs/alien craft because traveling through space is impossible in a decent amount of time, and that if faster than light travel existed, we would observe it, because we would detect it. As if we, having never achieved it ourselves, would know what the hell to look for.

Im talking abouit scientists, while maintaining healthy logic and some skepticism, keeping their minds open to new possibilities and accepting the fact that in reality, what we dont know way outweighs what we think we know, and what we think we know is really nothing, as everyday new discoveries are calling old theories into question.

You know how people are always asking "what's the meaning of life? Why are we here?"

Well I've always had this thought that the answer to those questions lies somewhere else in the universe and when we are able to explore different places and develop new technology to do who knows what, we can discover more about ourselves, our origins and why we are here.

I don't know whether it would be through other life forms, technology or even on a spiritual level but people always search their minds and Earth for answers to these questions, when we don't know anything about what is 'out there'. Just a thought.

Thoughts are welcome Wow, nice one with the Wiki that was sweet. Knew there was something solid somewhere. If they dont have aliens at Area 51 then they are doing something wrong there, that they dont want anyone to ever find out about. Excellent points though! I like where this is headed. Open ended Discussions with a little push in a couple of different directions.

Re: Bob Lazar

I have been reading about him for about a year. Some people believe, for some reason, that he is a plant, with his duty being that of spreading disinformation, which is another type of propaganda (I'm sure most of you are aware of that)
There have been just a few people that actually broken (silence) in order to get the truth out. Another one that comes to mind is Thomas Edwin Castello the Dulce Base Security Officer that gave an interview which can be found here.
www.all-natural.com...
Like i said there are So many stories "out there" some are false and some that
are soo farfetched to be true are probably the true ones.
The government lies to us because they dont think were ready to understand the truths.
The Radio Play "War of the Worlds" and the literal panic this caused, is one of the best excuses to back up the Govt's reasoning. I dont think the real truth will come out during my lifetime (37) but i like to believe that in death, id be able to do the things that
i only dreamed of in life.

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
What are your thoughts on Space Exploration? When do you think we should heavily fund our space orginizations?

Right now.

All human life on the planet could be extinguished in a fraction of a second (i.e. Big meteor strikes the planet, giant volcano the size of yellowstone could erupt, nuclear war could break out, a virus could kill off the vast majority of the population in a few days, etc)

The richest 1% of america have no vision. They are solely interested in monetary gain for the sake of monetary gain. They have no vision for the future. No vision except how can they live and maintain an extravegant lifestyle.

Our elected officials have no vision other than how to line thier pockets.

The vast majority of our people have fallen into a financial trap of how do they keep what they have and have no time to dream.

The options are limited.

I think the biggest reason the United States put space exploration on the back burner (this is entirely opinionated) is because we currently have no one to compete with. Human beings are very short sighted unfotunately, so far (since we didnt find the moon was made of cheese) we have realized that our solar system is big, and void of any other life. Everyone wanted to think there was life on mars (I am not saying that there never was) but we have found out there isnt. Actually a quick theory of mine which im sure others have thought about, is that there was life on Mars, when the sun was younger it was hotter, as it cooled down Mars slowly got colder, freezing their water, or destroying their atmosphere causing it to evaporate fall, freeze at the caps, or it was frozen under the surface. They say that there are many canyons that look like water ran through it (what else can make canyons besides earth quakes , not saying there arent other way, I just cant think of them right now) How do we know that there was intelligent life on Mars but it never really progressed as far as Humanity? Dinosaurs were around, they liked it hot, much of the world was rainforest. Perfect for them, weather changes cause the ice age, or maybe a meteor caused the weather to change. But anyways, so life may have existed there. Space exploration will begin again, with more Umph this time I think, as soon as more countries want to be the first to explore and exploit new places. My opinions of course ^-^ Send me yours too, im always open to new ideas and whatnot!

Dark

I think we shold head for the planet or moon with the biggest abundunce of natural resources and or most sutiable plce to form a colony so the human race will continue even if the world does go to hell.

All thoughts and ideas Welcome!


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just this morning i read a news crawl (?msnbc?)
that the Space Station construction crew accidently lost a bolt
used in assembling those additional solar panels just brought up there
by shuttle Atlantis.

being a CT guy, i have a suspicion that the lost bolt ~now in free-fall~
was intentionally 'lost'.
Why, you might ask....
So that a new generation of tracking (radar/laser/or unknown exotic) system
could be put through it's paces.

maybe both the shuttle has on board an experimental tracking device
and ground sites are involved with this 'tracking-a-bolt' experiment...
so that in the near future even a small object could be tracked, pinpointed,
and targeted for destruction- - -any where in space or in its reentry phase.

the space missions & ISS, give scientists new platforms to operate in
and in turn generates new obstacles to be solved, new technologies...
such as finding-tracking-killing space debris (or anything else up there)

etc etc