Plame: Plugging the Wrong Leak

Why don't we just discuss the issue WITHOUT the partisan BS. I saw nothing in that last post, picture included, that lead me to believe that this thread was anything other than a propaganda piece. Don't stress it SF, I would have said the same for a piece by the "left".

The topic?

No stress taken intrepid,

This thread never got much "push" from the beginning and I thought I might bump it some......

Maybe if it was moved to PTS????

Semper

That is a weak excuse for the blatant propaganda you employ on this portal but project all blame for onto what you assume to be "the lefty liberals" you constantly bait with your thinly veiled insults.

You aren't getting over on me, semper, you are an agent, pure and simple, for the "more desperate by the day" crowd that is rightfully losing power in this country.

Your thread, and others you've authored recently, deserve a bump, alright, right into the trashbin, along with that trashy post just referred to.

Of course, that is only my opinion as an individual, and in no way reflects the opinion of ATS or ATSNN, nor do I speak for any other members but myself.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]

From what I see, Semper was agreeing with me, so you may wish to direct those remarks in my direction. The Armitage affairs was a mistake for all involved. That includesthe man himself. The willingness of the Left and the Right to spin and exploit is what we've been talking about here, in mostly academic terms.

JO,

Just venting a little of my own frustration with the system and its players. Not really right to pick on anyone specifically, though I've had the propagandist label thrown in my direction one too many times by this particular member.

I need to mind the old urban slang adage "don't hate the player, hate the game," or better yet, "don't be a hater."

Semper the special proscutor was appointed by Bush and is a card carrying Republican...please explain how is it the Democrats fault and how they are prosocuting the wrong man. If Libby lied to a grand jury about something...that is still a federal crime regardless. As a policeman you know that.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
That is a weak excuse for the blatant propaganda you employ on this portal but project all blame for onto what you assume to be "the lefty liberals" you constantly bait with your thinly veiled insults.

You aren't getting over on me, semper, you are an agent, pure and simple, for the "more desperate by the day" crowd that is rightfully losing power in this country.

Your thread, and others you've authored recently, deserve a bump, alright, right into the trashbin, along with that trashy post just referred to.

Of course, that is only my opinion as an individual, and in no way reflects the opinion of ATS or ATSNN, nor do I speak for any other members but myself.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Icarus...I have had the pleasure of, not only several debates with semper but several private corraspondences with him as well and he is an honorable and decent person. We disagree politically but he is a righteous enough person (unlike some fanatics I have encountered on here) to actually consider rebutals he has recieved and to examine his opinions as a result. That being said, he needs a little prodding now and then, but he makes an honest effort.

Again, it is one of my failings at times to have a long memory and a short fuse backed up by a sharp tongue.

Several recent threads from semper on politics and the economy have appeared to me as somewhat outlandish, as well as chapter and verse from our current administration. Throw in the propagandist label he's tried to cast on me, and you might say I was awaiting this opportunity to speak my mind on the issue, as I have with other members in the past.

Again, this is my opinion, abrasive as it may be. He is entitled to his as well. It nearly goes without saying that we all are.

Well ya know Semper wants so hard to believe that he isn't being played for a rube by his party and government...a lot of people are like that but to his credit, he is at least willing to consider the possiblity. You have to prod him sometimes but at least he thinks about it.

Grover,

Thanks for the defense, but really how much credence is there in a post like IR just put up about me?

I mean really!!!! My opinion differs from him, so obviously I am wrong. Not taking into account, the fact that we have differing ideologies and therefor right or wrong does not apply. That is a concept that is apparently difficult for "some" on here to grasp.

Grover, you on the other hand are a joy to debate. I can not supply you with that though, because your last post is 100% correct. If he did lie, which by all indications he did, (Not Guilty until PROVEN) then he deserves to be prosecuted and sentenced.

What I was more referring to is the obvious disappointment in the "Opposite" faction involving their now defunct ability to put this at the door step of President Bush. It was apparent that at one time in this investigation, there was hope that evidence would surface to allow an impeachment process to begin. There are several members [of congress] that spend most of their time and our tax dollars spouting that.

As for those that so vehemently disagree with my political stance I can only make a suggestion. Don't click on my threads. It really is that easy and will save you a lot of high blood pressure problems and anxiety attacks. I don't need the points from your post, or the snide comments that contribute nothing of intellectual value to the thread or me personally.
As Forest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that."

Semper

Well personally semper I don't see all that much disappointment from the left about it. To try and bring bBush down over the Plame affair when he could be brought down over Iraq (or 9/11) or any of the other acts of his administration is almost like trying to impeach Clinton over a BJ.

Come on Grover,

If he "Could be" he "Would be."

Your much better than those talking points.

You know that with the foaming at the mouth hatred for the man on Capital Hill, they are grasping at straws because he stays the course and is doing what he feels in right and just.

And Clinton did exactly, EXACTLY the same thing as Libby, LIED, Only Clinton did it under OATH.

Semper

In reality Semper, the Democrats can't do anything, the Republicans control both houses by a comfortable majority (until November anyway) so all this talk is moot.

As for foaming at the mouth hatred of Bush you convieniently forget the rabid hatred the right felt for Clinton. Our distain for Bush pales in comparison.

Honestly, it is just very hard for me to believe that any thinking person could possibly reguritate the policy stance of this administration in particular and this government in general chapter and verse and try to justify or defend it intellectually. It is beyond the bounds of rational consideration to me.

Therefore, I speculate on motivation. In my over two years of reading of and participation in this board and interaction with its various members, I have seen many like you come and go, semper. Imo, you are the propagandist, and projection onto those not in agreement with your stance is your stock and trade.

There are issues that are debateable to me, and there are those that are simply regurgitated for purposes of continuing disinformation, not intellectual discourse, and you, semper, have fallen off the fine line that separates the two, again imo.

I will continue to click on and combat what I consider to be your personal (and possibly professional) disinfo campaign, at my discretion, within the T&Cs of this site. Don't underestimate the impact and relevance of the discussions and information disseminated from ATS, I assure you it is significant. But I think you already know that. Good day.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]

IR you caught me!!!

Darn it, I thought I would get away with it a lot longer.
Yes, I am a CIA operative here to change the opinion of an insignificant little poster like you!!! See I told you the government would spend money on anything!!!!

Got to be either the funniest thing I have ever read, or the saddest.

Let me get this straight....

If someone disagrees with you, has an opinion that you do not agree with, voices that opinion as is their right; Then it is your assertion that they must therefor either be a propagandist, or working for the government????
So anyone not like you is therefor wrong? Evil? Which is it???

Was I suddenly transported to Nazi Germany in the 30's???



I am very sorry that you feel this way, yet perhaps it is best. It would not be possible to follow my threads with a closed mind.

It is beyond the bounds of rational consideration to me.

Perhaps there is more to this one statement than even you care to admit to yourself...

Semper

[edit on 9/14/2006 by semperfortis]

[edit on 9/14/2006 by semperfortis]

Typical comment from you, semper. Read it before when you are confronted on your methods. Pretty transparent. I don't care if we agree or not. Your view is the one currently supporting the fascists running, or should I say ruining, our government right now, so the comment is just more projection. Maybe you should try a new tactic.

It isn't this insignificant little poster that I'm concerned about, either, it is the impressionable young minds reading this thread that may still be naive enough to buy into your spiel that make me feel compelled to offer an alternative viewpoint.

Acht du Leiber!

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]

And IR, there is nothing wrong with an alternative view point....

NOTHING at all....

I am sure I have never once stated that I am right and you are wrong. Nor will I. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

The problem is one of absolute. It appears it is either your way or nothing. That is not only unhealthy, it is self defeating in Government and especially in those young minds you are talking about.

Your attitude of "everything I say is right and if you disagree your an idiot, propagandist or worse" is horribly detrimental to growth and the advancement of intellect be it young or old.

I have a different opinion, it is that simple. I actually do go into the schools and talk with those young minds that you so readily referred to. You know what I tell them?

That we are all different and that's ok. That we all have different ideas, and that's ok. That we must be accepting of others, their lives and their opinions.

We are obviously diametrically opposed in our political views. And that is OK too. Does not make you wrong, just different from me. You on the other hand seem to demand that I think like you, if not I am some evil person. What difference is that and the Nazi party???

You have a problem my friend and it is not with me. It is your inability to accept others that may not think the same as you.

Semper

The problem is one of absolute. It appears it is either your way or nothing.

Your attitude of "everything I say is right and if you disagree your an idiot, propagandist or worse"

You on the other hand seem to demand that I think like you, if not I am some evil person. What difference is that and the Nazi party???

You have a problem my friend and it is not with me. It is your inability to accept others that may not think the same as you.

You are projecting again, semper. I never said I was right. I never said it had to be my way, just that the way you are appearing to support has run us into the wall and is wrong and we need to choose a new direction, imo. Everything I've said has been qualified by an imo.

I don't demand that you think like me, I would prefer that you think for yourself, not let the PTB do your thinking for you and go along with it because you want to be just like them.

What I find difficult to accept is the way, imo, the government and globalist corporations are destroying a way of life that has prospered for generations and underpins our society, along with the infrastructure that sustained it, lying to us over and over about it, and offering nothing as an alternative for us except protracted war, incurable disease, and increasing destruction of the environment that sustains our very lives.

I get the impression you are supporting them (the government and globalist corporations). If so, it is you who has the problem, imo, my friend, and you are right, I don't want any part of it.

You are projecting again, semper. I never said I was right. I never said it had to be my way, just that the way you are appearing to support has run us into the wall and is wrong and we need to choose a new direction, imo. Everything I've said has been qualified by an imo.

Typing IMO after each statement that is obviously meant to inflame, ie, Fascist, propagandist label etc, in no way confuses your intent, You are intolerant of those with views that do not fit your own. Just reread your own posts.

I don't demand that you think like me, I would prefer that you think for yourself, not let the PTB do your thinking for you and go along with it because you want to be just like them.

I do not want to be like them, I am them.
See the two years you spent here on the boards, along with over 10 more, I have spent active in politics. Yes, actively "Spewing" my rhetoric and influencing young minds. I intend to keep on doing whatever I can to save this country as long as I have a breath and can continue to tell everyone the truth. No my friend, I am not delusional, I see everyday the vile unrepentant hatred you and those like you fire at an administration that is trying to save you and our way of life. I see it being whittled away and eroded by those with no backbone and only their own agenda at heart. Those that "say" they care, and do absolutely nothing. They do not walk the walk, just sit here and talk the talk.

What I find difficult to accept is the way, imo, the government and globalist corporations are destroying a way of life that has prospered for generations and underpins our society, along with the infrastructure that sustained it, lying to us over and over about it, and offering nothing as an alternative for us except protracted war, incurable disease, and increasing destruction of the environment that sustains our very lives.

And you are entitled to your opinion. I support and, yes I'll say it again, I FIGHT everyday for your opinion and your right to express it. It is however NOT my opinion. I do not believe any of that and have never been shown proof that any of it is any more that leftist propaganda and the usual old left power wording.
You want to discuss underpinning our society? How about the liberal lawyers and their frivolous lawsuits that cost the American Taxpayers MILLIONS each year. How about the Liberal attempt to post Muslim articles in public places and remove Christian ones? I mean make up your mind, is it freedom "OF" religion, freedom "FROM" or freedom of Muslim religion?
How about your liberal lawmakers that vote for a war, and then when it gets unpopular, they step out and denounce it. Does liberal mean spineless?
How about condemning a man for a DUI and voting a man into office that killed a woman while driving drunk. And voting him in again and again. Hypocrisy???
It just goes on and on.

I get the impression you are supporting them (the government and globalist corporations). If so, it is you who has the problem, imo, my friend, and you are right, I don't want any part of it.

You don't have to have any part of it. I did not come on here and U2U you or ask you in any other way to start bashing me and my opinion. I never sent a request to you to even contribute to any of my threads. Put me on ignore or just avoid my threads. You can rest assured I will not comment on any of yours as your hostility towards me is unproductive to say the least.

I have an opinion! I am entitled to that opinion! Even if you do not agree with it. Your explanation is nothing more than another indication of some psychological difficulty with accepting others.

Also..

"A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." [Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism," 2004www.etymonline.com...

Just in case you didn't know what it means. It comes from the Roman Fasces, a rod used to whip people into line. Just like you attempted with me.

Semper