"The Iranian nation will not accept for one moment any bullying, invasion and violation of its righ

Originally posted by mf2hd
Of course they do. They also have the right to choose the way they live. If they happen to endorse Islam let them do so. Being free doesn't equal becoming a western style society.

I think it depends on what their idea of freedom is. If they remove your head to set you free, I doubt others would call it freedom. I don't have a problem with Islam considering that I worship the same God that they worship. I have a problem with those who would deny people of their liberties in the name of God and those who twist anything good into a weapon to strip you of your freedoms for their personal gain.

Choosing the way in which they live assumes that they have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. How am I suggesting that they live in a western society? They have the right to live however they like as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others.

And yet we are of different cultural backgrounds. In some instances the cultural differences are so big that only those who study different cultures can claim any sort of understanding. The world is infinitely more complex then what you are saying.

Personally I think that the world is infinitely more simple than you are saying. Even the tribes in the remotest part of the Amazon to tribes in New Zealand want a good life for their familes and children. Isn't this universal on our planet? If you feel differently, we will have to agree to disagree on that one and part as friends.

I beg to differ. Simplifying is dangerous. It makes us ingnorant of the differences between people. Because of this ignorance and unwillingness to accept the differences and endorse varoius views of the world we are in conflict.

I am wondering if you read what I wrote. I said nothing of the difference in cultures. Perhaps I am incapable of communicating to people using my limited vocabulary.

The way that I stated my position is that we all have rights. If your culture thinks that you should hide while you eat and deficate in public, so be it. Where did I state anything to the contrary?

My line of thinking is to bring people together based upon their similarities instead of their differences. I would imagine it is always good to come together as friends with similar traits so that we can then enjoy each others' diversity. Otherwise, people may not come together at all because of fear. It is our nature to fear what we do not know. This could lead to hate. Thus we come together with what we know first to avoid hate.

I must be retarded because I really thought that my message came across as positive. You seem to be disecting my words like I am threatening to you.

I assure you that I am not posturing to take over your role of whatever it is that you do or deprive you of whatever it is that you want (unless you wish to remove people of their rights). I only hope to open minds and bring people together and have civilized dialogue with one another.

Not sure who you are reffering to when saing "they". The failed dream of American Empire?

"They" would be those in psotiions of power who would like us at each other's throats so that they can continue to exploit us. I was referring to a Persian empire, but you can take it any way you wish.

Your founding fathers are not everyone's founding fathers. This sounds dangerously like spreading one particular ideology. Do not try to make the world look like America. Your view of the wold is not the only one, and certainly not better then other ones, it's just different. Just to give one example: The idea of individualism in a collective, organic societies (such as alot of asian societies) is an alien one. It simply doesn't exist there.
Live and let live.

I am now thinking that I may have a brain tumor because I am thinking that saying that all human beings have rights is a good thing. Am I on the right planet? Apparently some human beings wish to be dominated and stripped of their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I would imagine that it is their right to do so. Wait, but then that is bad because they have rights. Does Spock have a beard in your universe?

"live and let live" would assume that you would have a right to live, right? If they had no rights, live and let live would fall by the wayside because you would have no rights and no one would care of you lived or not. You would merely be meat. No laws, no rules, no rights, just me for me and me for me.

"Who are you?"
"Meat."
Bang!
"Now dead meat. Let's talk about me again."

Put the top back on the glue.

This is exactly why this is my last contribution to this thread.

I must have blacked out completely becasue I don't remember saying anything about glue. Perhaps I blacked out during that part because there was not enough ventilation.

Excuse me while I open a window.

Originally posted by mf2hd
Now I am sorry i even bothered to contribute to this thread.
Is no one able to hold a cultured exchange of ideas anymore?
Anyone would like to address the issues I mentioned or should we just let the thread die since its quality as measured by the above statements is pathetic.

I am now wondering what happened to "live and let live."

If we are to come together an any positive way, we must strive to practice as we preach. Not that I am above saying a horrible word or two about another person, but I try.

I try really hard.

Originally posted by iqonx
They will most likly change the format and structure but yes the Iranians will chose another Islamic government although it will not have the same form as it does today.

They will remove the "Guardian Council" fromt he structure and leave the rest and only allow elected people/representatives to have any say rather then allow selected people in the Guardian council to make desicons.

The people in Iran will still choose an Islamic republic but not the current version which is corrupted even Muslims that installed the revolution are turning against it becuase of certain people within it who they call corrupt and would like it replaced with a better and more fairer democratic islamic republic government.

In my opinion you are contradicting yourself! lets look at this paragraph here.


I am assuming that you are certain that majority of Iranians will go with "Islamic" Republic and at the same time I note that you are trying to come across as Democracy supporter.

Well then why can not the country by just a Republic and then be/remane inherently as Muslim as you are suggesting it is. Why does it have to enforce its Muslemness by putting the perfix "Islamic" in front of everything why does it have to be called Islamic?

what about the others who are not mulem by the way? do they have not rights to their country?


Plus very clever changing of the subject. I was saying how this regime is not democratic and you go astray talking about I am not sure what!!!!!


By the way how do you feel about the nukes that are going to land in Iran this year? There will make the weather awfully hot given the fact that a nuclear enrichment facility - alleged to be breaking enrichment rules- is going to get hit with a neutron bomb! neurtons that will penetrate earth superbly reaching the highly enriched fissile material inside?

Zurvan if you are of Iranian origion, care about your people, and are not a Mossad spy; then i think it is you who are stupid because in the current political climate you are effectively campaighning for the liberation of your people "Baghdad style".
We inherited quite a good ststem in Iraq and we still managed to screw up. If we do invade Iran it will be cruel, and if we don't the sanctions will be horrid and will only have a small chance of being effective.

I think you know you've been untruthful at various points in this thread, and so I've lost respect.
But it is true the current Iranian president is very popular with the poor, and in a way he is right to seek the bomb because otherwise we will destroy the Iranian nation in the long run.
I am pro-western but I realise the West is bad too. I probably support it for the simple reason I was born it being above all others. So yes I don't want Iran to have a nuclear bomb, or threaten the power projection of Israel, or at least our investment in it. But if I was Iranian I would have a different opinion.

Originally posted by Liberal1984

Zurvan if you are of Iranian origion, care about your people, and are not a Mossad spy; then i think it is you who are stupid because in the current political climate you are effectively campaighning for the liberation of your people "Baghdad style".

I think you know you've been untruthful at various points in this thread, and so I've lost respect.
But it is true the current Iranian president is very popular with the poor,

What do you mean by Baghdad Style?

Where have I been untruthful? please let me know and I will make sure to fix it.

Maybe with the poor but the fact is that he is popular to less than 20 percent of population.

The majority don't want him.

Would you care to give me some example of what you believe to be wrong please?

Originally posted by Liberal1984

simple reason I was born it being above all others.

sorry but what a load of ballonie[/spell]

What are you going to say next? Hi Hitler?

Zurvan Many people have been talking about bombing Iran recently. Most are against it, but the topic is very much on the agenda anyway. They range from people like the President who clearly want to announce it (but can’t just yet) to the hawks who just say “do it now”. Of course there are people like me who say “sod the trouble; I don’t want an Iran war trouble (unless of course its missiles were about to launch)”.

By slinging of your countries president…e.g…
Originally posted by zurvan

So says the "president" while his regime has been bullying, ivading and violating the rights of Iranians for 27 years!

to a predominantly western audience surely has one effect above all others? And that’s to encourage the perception that we should “liberate the Iranian people”.

Now maybe this perception will grow or maybe it won’t, and maybe whether it does or not is largely irrelevant anyway (especially when “the call of duty” to protect The Holy Sand) is very strong in many influential peoples minds.

Trouble is: if “liberation” comes to Iran it won’t be very nice. And Iraq surely testifies to that? Of course an Iran War could take the form of any “war” in so many different ways. And maybe the Iranians people will only have to cope with say a Russian style Chernobyl because someone’s dropped a conventional bomb on their new nuclear reactor(s).

Or perhaps Iran will do something stupid (like retaliate against any such U.S action against: their land, their country and their pride). All I can say is that if you truly care about the Iranian people you would not be encouraging the thought of “liberation” in (so blatantly) so many people’s minds.
Otherwise why are you criticising him so bad? He publicly said to the global media (on more than one occasion I believe) that he wanted to wipe Israel of the map (at a time when geopolitical politics was already hot). And nearly everybody knows he wants to please both God (and his name in Arab history) by sidelining ISteal’s dominance in the Arab continent forever. This is many peoples minds is quite “nit head” enough.

In my opinion this does not mean war is the answer; but I'm fully aware that the way you criticise your president more or less advocates it. So why would any Iranian want to advocate a war (within the next few years) that could (at worst) make the Gulf War look like Disney Land and Baghdad look like paradise?


My War View
Personally I believe that if Iran wanted to commit suicide by killing “the enemy” then it would fire some bio-weapons today or tomorrow (or could have done something of the sort any day over the last few decades). It would only take a short period of preparation to launch a really effective surprise attack.
Truth is this is all about politics and power projection, and doesn’t need war to solve it. At the end of the day so long as Israel exists and someone is selling oil (somewhere) then I don’t see the need for war. And Iran only supplies about 4% of the worlds total; so providing we don’t cause it to upset supplies in other countries I'm quite happy. But if Iran did make the first strike; then obviously we would have no choice but to nuke it. After all it’s a unofficial type of international convention isn’t it?

What are you going to say next? Hi Hitler?

Oh Zurvan why would I want to support Hitler when he never intended to increase human liberty; or indeed living standards (as we understand them) in this, our relatively politically free part of the world?
In my opinion Hitler was always going to be a bad thing as long as he opposed both these ideals. He would have made the world less free and more immoral and that too me is the signature of a bad leader; well unless it’s like Iraq; then that’s different (cos it is different).

Untruths…
1.

"president" while his regime has been bullying, ivading and violating the rights of Iranians for 27 years!

So you are saying that Ahmadi was elected? right yeah sorry my bad.

If you know anything you’ll know he was democratically elected from a shortlist which had been edited by the supreme leadership (which under the current structure of Iranian government always has the power to do this).

Sorry mate, I have no proof execpt the word of mouth

Um, have you ever heard of a game called “Chinese Whispers”? (It’s a children’s game where you pass a message in a circle and see how well it gets distorted by the time it reaches the end).

Cinosamithna The whole paragraph was great: www.abovetopsecret.com... but in particular I loved this statement…

The loony professor President of Iran, who actually has spoken much truth vs. the Satanist pathological liar in the White House, choose your evil, but choose wisely.

Something about bombing Iran...

Iran (and Syria for that matter) both have far more sophisticated air defense systems than say Iraq or Afghanistan had. An Air Campaign against these two nations, even with US superiority in technology will be costly because there WILL be significant losses. Iranian and Syrian kit is pretty good and able to score significant hits in contemporary wargames vs US or Israeli Kit.

Iranian and Syrian kit is pretty good and able to score significant hits in contemporary wargames vs US or Israeli Kit.

Who knows what weapons the US has now.

The stealth bomber was first introduced in the early 80's ('81 or '82)

and yet the 'public' didn't know about it until 1990-91.

The M1-A1 tank has been around since the late '70's........the public didn't really here about that until the 1990's.

The US is the mostly technologically advanced country.....with enormous amounts of money for 'defense' spent.

Sure we here about the F-22 raptor.......but what about the weapons we don't hear about?

In '90-'91 stealth bombers were used to bybass Iraq's defenses.......obviously Iran is a better defended country....more sophisicated..........maybe the US has the technology to 'bypass' those defenses.

i think isreal should EMP their azzzz. not only will the emp kill all electronics, but it will sterilize anything in its path. all they do is teach hatred to their children and war , well lets give them what they want a war. send their azzzzes back to the stone ages. they can all literally ride their camels cause their cars won't work. it will sterilize them so they caint have children to teach to hate and kill. lets pull our troops out an start the sterilization process. religious merderers, the lot, lets start over, over there.

Originally posted by littlebird
i think isreal should EMP their azzzz. not only will the emp kill all electronics, but it will sterilize anything in its path. all they do is teach hatred to their children and war , well lets give them what they want a war. send their azzzzes back to the stone ages. they can all literally ride their camels cause their cars won't work. it will sterilize them so they caint have children to teach to hate and kill. lets pull our troops out an start the sterilization process. religious merderers, the lot, lets start over, over there.

I detect personal, and quite possibly, intellectual, knowledge and/or better understanding issuezZZzzzz.

NATIONS aren't Necessarily a direct representaion of the individual populace, mind you.


Hmmm ... ?

$.02

[edit on 1/13/2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by littlebird
i think isreal should EMP their azzzz. not only will the emp kill all electronics, but it will sterilize anything in its path. all they do is teach hatred to their children and war , well lets give them what they want a war. send their azzzzes back to the stone ages. they can all literally ride their camels cause their cars won't work. it will sterilize them so they caint have children to teach to hate and kill. lets pull our troops out an start the sterilization process. religious merderers, the lot, lets start over, over there.

This is what you'll be destroying:

Ok I am not sure if any of you have seen this, but these are some of the real pictures of where US is thinking of going inot:
www.irandefence.net...

and this is what is going to be welcoming them there:


www.irandefence.net...

The Iranian Government needs to go, but a nuclear weapon is not the way!