Lee H. Oswald Killed Kennedy.

Originally posted by elevatedone

UMMMM....

Show Categories: Comedy, Science-Fiction

www.tv.com...

Please tell me you aren't seriously trying to explain what Red Dwarf is to me.

I don't actually think that it was a Time Travel Documentary.....
Actually, the point of my post was as a means to show that even in comedy serious topics are examined, all be it comically, and you will tend to find that comdey emphasizes the extreme points, for instance Oswalds positioning.
It may be farce, but it raises some interesting points INCLUDING a possible alternate world of Kennedy alive that is very plausible...except the cannibalism!!

just letting you know..... incase you didn't....

your original post seemed sincere.... not a joke.

quote by donwhite
I believe LHO earned either Marksman or Sharpshooter badge in the MC. LHO was Honorably Discharged from the USMC in pay grade E3, corporal. He had enlisted for 3 years and that was a normal rate of progression. Taken together this points to him as having been a satisfactory marine.
[edit on 8/30/2006 by donwhite]

So this proves that Lee H. Oswald could have been the shooter and probably was. He was a Marksman/Sharpshooter for the USMC, which one i don't know, but basically the same. He had a working knowledge of guns, especially high-powered rifles.

The gun that was used to kill Kennedy was a problem. When tests were done with the gun or identical gun, the gun had problems with jamming. I think it was 2 out of 5 shots would jam. But it only took only 2 hits out of 3 shots to kill him. So a jammed gun wasn't a problem for this shooting. But it was a poor choice of gun.

Here's what i think happened. His first shot missed completely. Some say the shot was deflected by the tree in front. This made him have to hurry his 2nd shoot because he thought he wouldn't have another good shoot.. The shot was hurried and instead of hitting the president in the head, it went through his back and onward. The 3rd and final shot, he took his time realizing this is it. There was a long enough delay between the 2nd and 3rd shot, that he took his time, understanding that it was just a couple of seconds, for a sharpshooter thats enough time.. And with that shot he was successful, but again lucky.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by BartIV]

Originally posted by elevatedone

Originally posted by BartIV
Discovery Channel (or history channel) did a test on this second shot and did everything down to the detail. The shot came out to be exactly like the shot that was fired that day. The last lucky shot hitting JFK in the head. (i still agree this shot was the most interesting shot and deserves an explanation).

Lone gunman, nope can't be... I forget the name of the program and when / where it aired, but it was pretty much proven that the one shot would have had to travel through the head, up or down the spine, through and arm and then into a leg.... and the showed that it just wasn't possible...

This is what happened.
The second shot hit Kennedy on the upper right hand side of his back. Because Lee Oswald was located up and to the left in the book depository, it passed through, coming out of his upper front chest. Kennedy begins grabbing at his neck tie to open his shirt in the video.
Connelly's seat was located lower and to the left of the president. It passed through kennedy hitting Connelly in the back, exiting his lower chest (i think puncturing a lung), hit his wrist, bouncing off a bone in his wrist and lodging into his lower left leg. I agree that bullet did some major damage, unbelievable damage, but it did happen that way. Video shows Kennedy and Connelly reacting about the same time after getting hit.
Like i said earlier, the discovery channel or A & E, did a test on this shot. An Australian Sharpshooter did the same shott into some special manicans made up. The manicans were produced in a way that the inside and outside were exactly like humans. They positioned the manicans exactly, took the shot, and it worked. the bullet did everything.
I think the last shot that hit Kennedy in the head is more suspect.

I have read that Oswald was a competent marksman, but no great shakes, for what it's worth.

I believe that when JFK was killed, there was a coup that overtook the U.S. If you think about it, that's when our govt really started going down the drain and becoming really corrupt. Who stood to benefit? Well, an awful lot of people. Kennedy had talked about disbanding the CIA, the Federal Reserve and getting out of Vietnam. Any one of these would have been reason enough to have him offed. The powers-that-be had him offed, I think, either the CIA, the military or some such.

Here are some things to consider that point to a conspiracy:

- The Secret Service was told to stand down.
- Oswald said he was "just the patsy"
-The facts of the assasination were archived and not to be opened for 100 years.
- JFK's brain was missing when he was delivered to the hospital.

All of this points to some sort of conspiracy, imo. None of these things would have happened if it wasn't a conspiracy.

Originally posted by forestlady

Here are some things to consider that point to a conspiracy:

- The Secret Service was told to stand down.
- Oswald said he was "just the patsy"
-The facts of the assasination were archived and not to be opened for 100 years.
- JFK's brain was missing when he was delivered to the hospital.

All of this points to some sort of conspiracy, imo. None of these things would have happened if it wasn't a conspiracy.

*Is there proof that the Secret Service was told to stand down. I know they were no where near the car when he was shot, but did someone actually give those orders.
*Oswald probably realized what he had done and was trying to find a way out, he got scared. Saying "im just the patsy" doesn't mean he didn't do it.
*The archives are not to be opened for 100 years. I have never read that, what source did that come from. Does anyone know about this, if so i would like to know? I heard Jackie Kennedy had some documents put in archieves that wouldn't be opened after so long, but i am guessing they expose JFK's affairs, maybe even the connection to JFK and Marilyn Monroe and her death. I do think JFK had Marilyn Monroe killed. She was going to talk about the affair to the press so he had her done.
*JFK's brain missing. I have heard of that. I don't think it was lost as he was delivered to the hospital. I think it was lost at the place where they keep the archieves. And that I imagine the family wanted put in the coffin with kennedy being it did belong to him. So the press wouldn't go looking for the brain the family had the Commission say it was missing. The brain would have a big piece of the evidence on the entrance of the bullet. I just think it was out of respect for the family that it is lost and just put in the coffin with JFK.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by BartIV]

posted by BartIV

Lee Harvey Oswald could have been and probably was the shooter. He was a USMC Marksman or Sharpshooter. He had a working knowledge of guns . . Here's what I think happened. LHO’s first shot missed completely. This made him hurry his 2nd shoot. Instead of the 2nd shot hitting the president in the head, it went through his back and [became the magic bullet]. LHO took his time on the 3rd and final shot. There was enough delay between the 2nd and 3rd shot. . it was just a couple seconds, enough time for a sharpshooter. And with that shot he was successful, but again lucky.
[Edited by Don W]

I think the Zapruter film bears you out, B4. I admit it is very hard to accept the “magic” bullet, but there it is. Anyone who can believe in UFOs surely would have no objection to the magic bullet. Non-believers in UFOs like me, find it equally improbable that some FBI or Secret Service agent would have been carrying the pristine bullet in his pocket.

Because of Jack Ruby, we are unable to ask LHO why he did it. OTOH based on what we do know about LHO’s prior life, it is unlikely he had any grand scheme. Grandiose, yes, but grand? No.



[edit on 8/31/2006 by donwhite]

This is what the Warren Commision wants us to believe that one bullet did.

After an initial supersonic rifle exit muzzle velocity of 1850 to 2000 feet per second (560 to 610 m/s), ballistically arced very slightly while traveling 189 ft (58 m) in a downward net angle of 25 degrees (allowing for the 3 degrees downward of Elm Street) then entered President Kennedy's rear suit coat at about 1700 feet per second (518 m/s),

passed through President Kennedy's suit coat back, just to the right of his spine, and 5.375 inches (137 mm) below his collar line,

impacted, then entered President Kennedy 2 inches [50 mm] to the right of his spine, creating a wound documented size of 4 millimeters by 7 millimeters in the rear of his upper back with a red-brown to black area of skin surrounding the wound, forming what is called an abrasion collar. This abrasion collar was caused by the bullet's scraping the margins of the skin on penetration and is characteristic of a gunshot wound of entrance. This abrasion collar was photographically documented to be larger at the lower margin half of the wound, which is strong evidence that the bullet's long-axis orientation at the instant of penetration was slightly upward in relation to the plane of the skin immediately surrounding the wound; however, the skin of Kennedy's upper back slopes inward, and the Croft photo (shot shortly before Kennedy was hit) shows Kennedy slumped forward, both of which would suggest that a shooting position above Kennedy is possible,

the bullet's passage near the spine slightly fractured a transverse process of the president's sixth cervical vertebra, C-6. (there is debate whether the C-6 spinal vertebra seen in the x-rays was fractured directly when the bullet struck the vertebra, or, whether the pressure cavity wave the bullet caused during its passage fractured the spinal vertebra),

passed through his neck. Warren Exhibit CE 386 [12] reported contusion (bruise) of the apex (top tip) of the right lung in the region where it rises above the clavicle, and noted that although the apex of the right lung and the parietal pleural membrane over it had been bruised, they were not penetrated. This is consistent with a bullet passing through the neck, immediately over the top tip of the right lung (the pressure wave causing bruising to both pleural membrane and apex of lung), but without penetrating the thoracic cavity, or the lung beneath. After passing through the neck, the bullet

exited President Kennedy's throat, at the centerline below the President's adam's apple. Within three hours of the assassination, this neck frontal wound was described in an afternoon press conference by the Parkland trauma room #1 emergency physician, Doctor Malcolm Perry, after he attended to the frontal throat wound, as being an "entrance wound". Doctor Perry stated the neck frontal wound was an "entrance" wound three times during his press conference. However, medical researchers have found that ER doctors frequently make mistakes with regard to entrance and exit wounds. Within nineteen hours of his press conference statement (but unfortunately after the autopsy had already been completed), Doctor Perry also described via telephone to Doctor Humes, one of the three U.S. Navy Bethesda Hospital military autopsist, that the neck front wound was originally only "3 to 5 millimeters" in circular width before doctor Perry attended to the front throat wound (Humes documented Perry's "3 to 5 millimeters" wound size by writing it down during the phone conversation),

passed through his shirt,

nicked President Kennedy's tie-knot on its upper left side. Upon clearing the tie-knot the bullet had slowed to about 1500 feet per second (457 m/s) and then it started to tumble,

traveled the 25.5 inches (650 mm) between President Kennedy and Governor Connally,

impacted then entered Connally's back just below and behind his right armpit creating an 8 millimeter by 15 millimeter elliptical wound, indicating that bullet was fired from an acute angle to the entrance wound point, or that the bullet was tumbling, having hit something (presumably Kennedy),

completely destroyed 127 millimeters (5 in) of Connally's fifth right rib bone as it smashed through his chest interior at a documented 10-degree anatomically downward angle, (post-operative x-rays document that some of the metal fragments remained in Connally for life, and were buried with him many years later)

exited slightly below his right nipple, creating a 50 millimeter, sucking-air, blowout chest wound,

passed through Connally's shirt and suit coat front, seen in commission photos five inches (127 mm) to the right of the suit coat right lapel, and even with the lowest point of the right lapel,

now slowed to 900 feet per second (274 m/s)(subsonic), the bullet entered through Connally's right upper (outside) wrist, but missed his suit coat sleeve and shirt sleeve at the wrist area (in 2003 Nellie Connally described in her book “From Love Field” that Connally's right hand, French cuff shirt cuff, solid-gold “Mexican peso” cufflink was struck with a bullet and the cufflink was completely shot off during the attack. Connally’s cufflink was never found -thus never entered- into the assassination evidence)

broke his right radius wrist bone at its widest point, depositing metal fragments, (post-operative x-rays document that some of the metal fragments are still buried with him)

exited the palm (inner) side of Connally's wrist,

now slowed to 400 feet per second (122 m/s), the bullet entered the front side of his left thigh, creating a documented 10-millimeter nearly round wound,

buried itself shallowly into Connally's left thigh muscles,

then, at Parkland Hospital, the bullet fell out, perhaps when Connally was undressed,

landed on a stretcher that Connally had presumably lain upon,

was discovered on a stretcher located 91 ft (28 m) away from emergency trauma room #2 where Connally was first examined at Parkland Hospital next to a stretcher used for a little boy, Ronnie Fuller, wedged between the frame and the cloth material of the stretcher. This stretcher, according to the man who found this bullet, was not the same stretcher that Connally had ever lain upon.

mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...

And after ALL that, what does the bullet look like?





Seriously? is that all reasonable? More reasonable then there being several shooters?

Most snipers don't work alone. It doesnt even have to be an inside government job. Oswald was cohorting with tons of Pro-Castro Communist groups in New Orleans who said that Kennedy needed to get his. Couldn't they go through with theyre plan and cheap shot him with two or three snipers?

Or is it really more reasonable to believe that one man fired a bullet that hit all that, and came out prestine.

Originally posted by BartIV
I was watching a PBS special on TV Monday night and it had Bill Carter on, "Get Carter", is his book. He was a secret service agent during JFK's time as president. He believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone killer and that the last shot that hit the president in the head was a lucky shot. He said if Oswald had taken that shot 10 other times, he would have missed. It was just a lucky shot.
I have always believed that there were more people involved in the shooting and that it was a conspiracy, but after watching Bill Carter I think I will drop the whole case.

here`s a little something for you to ponder, the dealey plaza tramps were also part of the Nixon Watergate scandal.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Didnt oliver stone raise enough doubts about the official story in his excellent film.?

there is already a monster thread on this subject on ats:

here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



~~~~~~~~
mod edit - fixed linky

[edit on 31-8-2006 by masqua]

I believe that Oswald was part of the CIA. Kennedy was killed by the CIA, our government. There were 9 shots between Kennedy and the Senetor and the car windshield. They came from different directions. There had to be at least 3 to four gunmen to have a sequence of shots that close together.

Originally posted by incunabula

Originally posted by BartIV
I was watching a PBS special on TV Monday night and it had Bill Carter on, "Get Carter", is his book. He was a secret service agent during JFK's time as president. He believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone killer and that the last shot that hit the president in the head was a lucky shot. He said if Oswald had taken that shot 10 other times, he would have missed. It was just a lucky shot.
I have always believed that there were more people involved in the shooting and that it was a conspiracy, but after watching Bill Carter I think I will drop the whole case.

here`s a little something for you to ponder, the dealey plaza tramps were also part of the Nixon Watergate scandal.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

When you are referring to the dealey plaza tramps, are you talking about E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis. But i have seen the photos of the two guys and the tramps. They look nothing alike if thats what you are referring to. E. Howard Hunt and Sturgis were involved in WaterGate, but not JFK, if the evidence are the photos. Photos can be seen on "http://666ismoney.com/JFKWEB.html"

Originally posted by Pam
I believe that Oswald was part of the CIA. Kennedy was killed by the CIA, our government. There were 9 shots between Kennedy and the Senetor and the car windshield. They came from different directions. There had to be at least 3 to four gunmen to have a sequence of shots that close together.

It was Kennedy and Governor Connelly, just making a correction, not trying to look like a smart @ss. But 9 shots are hard to account for. That is a lot of gun fire. And with that many shots fired, i don't see how that can match up with the Zapruder film.
Again, I say, the last shot that hit the president is suspect, but the magic bullet, i still agree was one bullet that did the damage.

Bart IV, I remember so well when it happened, I was 9 y.o. At the time, it was all over the papers that info had been archived and wouldn't be released until 100 years afterwards. I rememeber because I promised myself at the time that I would live to be 108 so I could find out the truth. George H.W. Bush ordered the time extended on declassifying the documents, etc. Obviously, they wouldn't be released until well after everyone who rememebered it was dead. I just checked with my husband and he confirmed all of the above. I also remember at the time that when everything was classsified for 100 years, that's when everyone really began to suspect something was fishy and we weren't getting the whole truth.

I think it's the Zapruder film, where if you watch, you can see the Secret Service pull away from the limo just before the shot(s?) were/was fired.

WolfofWar, great point about the bullet. It was Jim Garrison who explored that issue and came up with the conclusion that there had to be more than one bullet.

apparantly you have never heard of the "magic bullet"
they only found one bullet

now for the bullet to come from oswald he would have had to shoot sever times
the angles of the bullet wounds indicate the grassyknole as a probably origin

also the wrong half of kenedy's head was blown off
had the bullet come from the upper rear, where oswald was located in the building, the front of his face would have the exit wound, however the rear of his head has the exit wound, indicating oswald either did not shoot him, or oswald's "magic bullet" bounced all over the car and ended up with still enough momentum to rip through kennedy's skull

watch this video of the assassanation
www.youtube.com...
look at seconds 15, 16, and 17

now read this site debunking the grassyknole
mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

ok now think about how basic physics applies to the situation
being shot in the back of the head should cause the body to move forward
being shot in the front of the head would knock the body backwards

which do you see happening in the video?

clearly kennedy was knocked backwards and the wound in the back of his head was an exit wound not an entrance wound
the wound was not caused by oswald as he was behind kennedy and would have only been able to shoot him in the back of the head yet clearly from the video kennedy was shot in the face and the massave hole in the back of his head was the exit wound

edit:
sorry, forgot to show the image of the "magic bullet" 's path



note that the bullet passes though his middle back, up though his neck, and down again through connally's back, out his chest, through his arm changing trajectory, and ends up in his left thigh

still believe oswald did it?

[edit on 31-8-2006 by wondernut]

Watch the Zapruder film. It shows the driver pull a gunout of his coat, raise in his seat, turn around and shoot JFK. You can see the flesh blow out of the back of his head and his head go back. It is all there. I have a copy of the film.

Also, this is after the first 2 shots hit. When JFK was taken to the hospital, the cover up shut the mouths of the Dr's at that hospital except one. He knows there is an entrance would in the front of JFK's head.

Indian, we never see that, what we see is the driver turn around, thats all.

And I would be more concerned if the driver didnt turn around after hearing the gunshots and most likely the gurgling of the president.

Take a look at this link LBJ, H.L. HUNT and Ruby had it done whomever did the shooting. This artical and what has already been said here all come together very well I think. Maybe we will have to wait till the 100 years are up to know.
www.prisonplanet.com...

posted by forestlady

“ . . it was all over the papers that info had been archived and wouldn't be released until 100 years afterwards. I remember because I promised myself at the time that I would live to be 108 so I could find out the truth.

George H.W. Bush ordered the time extended on declassifying the documents, etc. Obviously, they wouldn't be released until well after everyone who remembered it was dead. I just checked with my husband and he confirmed all of the above. I also remember at the time that when everything was classified for 100 years, that's when everyone really began to suspect something was fishy and we weren't getting the whole truth. [Edited by Don W]

It is very hard to learn just what Bush41 was doing in the 1961-1963 time frame. Bush41 founded the Zapata Offshore Co. 1954. He sold his shares in 1966 in preparation to run for Congress from Texas 7. His official biography is silent on this time period. I know there are some records that are sealed. I do not know if it is for 100 years or not. I think that is a bit long.
The usual justification for sealing records is they contain vital information related to our nation’s security. As we learned in the Valerie Plame case, revealing her status jeopardized any people she had dealings with when abroad. Further, this revelation of identity makes recruiting other sources aboard all the more difficult.

I’m saying there are valid reasons for sealing files. Not nearly as many as we have sealed, but for some. This issue is entirely in the hands of Congress. I’m sure Bush 43 claims this power under his Commander in Chief status to do it on his own, but for the rest of us, it is according to laws passed by Congress.


Here is an anti-Bush website
www.modernhistoryproject.org...