Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran

Originally posted by super70
Would you call 9/11 a crazy scary tale?

- ....and where did I ever say anything so ridiculous as that, huh?
You're the only one making such silly pronouncements.

......and in any case just what has this got to do, exactly, with tall tales about a supposedly nuclear armed Iran about to attack anyone, huh?

Maybe you don't live in the US and aren't considered "the great satan" by religious fanatics hellbent on your destruction.

- Thankfully, no I don't.

.....but I think anyone looking at the ME situation could see that in large part the USA government has - for decades - been involved and a fully participating author of much of the situation in which she now finds herself.
Hardly the wounded 'innocent'.

My point is not to dismiss the possibility of threat - or previous hurt suffered by anyone in this situation - but merely to point out that cranking up the paranoia and threats by way of 'return' is no way to settle, help or diffuse that appalling situation.

According to the Islamic extremists, if you aren't also an Islamic extremist, you are the enemy, even if you are sympathetic to their views and denounce the policies of the United States.

- Well if you want to use the pronouncements of a handful of their looney tunes to justify the actions your looney tunes then go ahead......but don't be too surprised if you find that in the end all you end up doing is helping to make all your paranoid fears come true.

The US welcomes Muslims and Jews alike with open arms, as well as any peaceful religion. But woe unto those who wish us harm and ill will, wether here or across the globe.

- OK, if you want to believe the US government has always been great, fair and right in everything she has ever done out there at all times and that nothing has ever happened as a reaction to anybody believing they were treated unjustly.
Fine.

It's your right.

You'll find yourself pretty much in the minority on that one though.

I for one would much rather have my morning coffee and read in the news of a cruise missile taking out a terrorist camp in some remote desert than step outside of my house and live in fear. Israel has the green light as far as I'm concerned.

- I really mean no offence but come on.
If only the real world were as childishly simplistic huh?

Didn't you already notice the (how many by now, hundreds....thousands?) so-called terrorist training camps already "taken out" over the decades without it making a blind bit of difference to anything?

"You smell that? Do you smell that? Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It smells like...victory." - Col. Kilgore

- Well ludicrous, insane and rather infantile movie characters aside I think you'll find that the real world is nothing like a film.

To return to topic, if Israel does try and 'go it alone' and attacks Iran then the world will see just who the aggressor is in this.
Not Iran afterall.
I wouldn't expect Israel to last a week 'going it alone' before finding a way of dragging the US into any 'situation'.

All of which will contrive to make an already horrible situation a million times worse for all involved.

(I just hope your apparant enthusiasm for this is only matched in full by your own personal willingness to go volunteer and go out there or send your kids and family out there.......

......I've always thought it a great shame that all the war-hawks bleating on similarly aren't compelled to do likewise, my bet is we'd soon find out just how 'right' they really thought their demands for action were if that was the case when it was their own necks instantly to be put on the line and not just other peoples'.)

It's a disaster waiting to happen, the total tragedy of it all is that it is wholly avoidable and unnecessary.



[edit on 27-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Well sminkeypinkey, our polar opposite views are exactly what keeps these debates interesting, you are obviously well versed in ME knowledge and you make good points.

Originally posted by super70
Well sminkeypinkey, our polar opposite views are exactly what keeps these debates interesting, you are obviously well versed in ME knowledge and you make good points.

- Thanks super70, you too.

Always glad to engage in a little to and fro .

I just wish that were all it was, debate.

Sadly that is far from the case.
We live in hope, eh?



[edit on 27-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

SminkeyPinkey

There is a lot of processing required to get any plutonium out of this. The 'plant' - and expertise - required for this is enormous and can't be hidden or just conjured up out of thin air.

Ask the UK, 'we' tried setting up a major business (NIREX) to do this, it took a long time (despite our decades old expertise and infrastructure in nuclear matters) to set up and along time beyond that to produce anything worthwhile by way of usable commercial plutonium, in fact it was a commercial failure.

A minor point, but I feel it should be made: the Iranians probably aren't interested in producing weapons-grade Plutonium commercially. The costs and hurdles associated might sink the commercial viability of such a program, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for producing material for use 'in-house', so to speak.

Do you see what I mean?

[edit on 27-8-2006 by WyrdeOne]

Iran has recently stated that its new heavy water treatment plant will be for peaceful purposes only, and not to build a bomb to be used against anyone, not even their foe Israel. Maybe this is true, but would they secretly give these things to hizballah to carry out their dirty work?

Iran caught delivering more arms to hizballah

So is Iran's president telling the truth when he says he has no intentions of building a nuclear bomb, or is he telling the truth when he says he wants "Israel wiped off the face of the earth?"

Originally posted by super70

Iran has recently stated that its new heavy water treatment plant will be for peaceful purposes only, and not to build a bomb to be used against anyone, not even their foe Israel. Maybe this is true, but would they secretly give these things to hizballah to carry out their dirty work?

Iran caught delivering more arms to hizballah

So is Iran's president telling the truth when he says he has no intentions of building a nuclear bomb, or is he telling the truth when he says he wants "Israel wiped off the face of the earth?"

No matter what you here in the news, the fact is we really don't no. The U.S. has admitted that there are major intelligence gap when it comes to Iran's nuclear program. If Iran is indeed building or researching to build the bomb, they are hiding it very well and playing it cool.

IF Iran builds the bomb, they will NOT give the bomb to Hezbollah, the political ramifications will be huge if they are caught with the bomb or if it goes off in Israel. The fact that Iran and North Korea are tightening their relationship could mean they are interested or at least want an ally who could produce the bomb... we just don't know.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
A minor point, but I feel it should be made: the Iranians probably aren't interested in producing weapons-grade Plutonium commercially.

- I did not mention the commercial aspect of the UK's endeavour for any other reason than to point out that even with decades of experience and expertise the UK could not make what it originally thought would be a straight-forward operation workable.

My information is the Iranians aren't going to be doing anything but sending the resultant materials from this to Russia.
They are not in a position and do not the capability to 'make' plutonium from it.

The costs and hurdles associated might sink the commercial viability of such a program, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for producing material for use 'in-house', so to speak.

- That's true but this still ignores the fact that Russia is to do any processing associated with this plant, Iran is not going to be producing plutonium 'in house' with their heavy water capability.

They do not have the infrastructure nor do they have the expertise 'in house' and simply imaging that somehow they just might really is no rational basis to assess any credible risk
(particularly when we know there is a treaty with Russia, there are (still) IAEA 24/7 monitoring cameras everywhere etc etc).