Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran

Originally posted by afeent1


They have been offered a reactor and the non-weapons grade fuel for free. They turned down the offer.

From what i understand it was not free and they would have to pay for it.

So even though Iran had it's uranium which it could mine from it's own country becuase they have one of the largest natural supplies of Uranium in in the world there country from the mountain regions of there nation.

Under the deal they would no longer be allowed to access that or mine it and would have to put there trust in getting there Uranium from other countries and not only that they would also have to pay for it even though they can get it for free from there own supplies in Iran.

Also the reactors that the west was going to give them where not free but Iran would have to fork over $billions of $$$$ for them to German, British, French and American companies becuase Russia doesn't make/sell the types of reactors in the quanitity that Iran needed and equipment that goes with those reactors that the west(Germany, france, Britian and America) want Iran to use instead of heavy water reactors. But interestinly enough Germany, france, Britian and America do make them and are willing to sell them to Iran obviously for a reasonable price

The majority of comments on this thread remind me of my girlfriend. On numerous occassions she says 'Whats wrong" - I say "Nothing" - She adds a bit of human logic and deduces I must be having an affair and don't love her anymore.

A little excert in a newspaper - three comments later Israel is going to Nuke Iran and we'll have WWIII - I know its not in the Ts & Cs, but having to add thought to your posts before posting is at least inferred. It's like watching a car crash where the passers by are trying to see the goriest sight they can.

Realistically a war between Israel and Iran is possible, extremely unlikley because of the integrated powers of both sides with allied countries and the wider picture of the US and Chine/Russia (less so now)

Historically this region has thrown mud like kids in a play ground for centuaries, the difference now is everyone gets to hear about it.

The two countries dont like each other - true, but (A) Iran knowns that Israel has nuclear weapons and the US and (B) Israel knows Iran has more people than it can probably ever quell. In an ever tightening world economy where the third world is elapsing the rest of the world in terms of growth through cheap labour and costs neither country can afford it.

The little spat between Israel and Hez-bollards illustrated how depleting a small fight can be.



[edit on 25-8-2006 by Quackmaster]

Can't help but interject the irony that the United States provided most of the "current" nuclear technology to Iran in 1965.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

Israel will not attack Iran or use nuclear weapons against Iran without the approval of the United States. People keep forgetting, Iran will NOT sit down and take the beating, they will retaliate. Many of you also underestimate the power of Iran. Iran has more than enough combat aircraft, armed helicopters and missiles to launch an attack. A first strike by Israel will not be sufficient to render Iran defenseless unless they use nuclear weapons.

What makes you think the US will not give Israel the green light to go ahead and nuke Iran? They gave Israel advanced approval before they ground conflict with Hezbulloh.

If Iran imposes an increasing threat to the Civillians in Israel. Any Sov Nation does not need the approval from anyone if it feels its citizens are being increasingly threatend with being wiped off the MAP!!

An you keep forgetting Israel will not sit down either and let Iran threaten its people or its nation when ever Iran feels like it, or wait for Iiran to strike first.

Push come to shove Can gurantee you Israel will use them if they are forced to.

You forget about the American occupation in Iraq right next door to Iran. Giving the go ahead for a conventional war opposed to a nuclear attack are completely different situations. There is much that has to be considered. Killing hundreds of thousands people to take out a few nuclear facilities will not be accepted by the international community. The politics in using nuclear weapons is very tricky and one that must be dealt with carefully.

But you said it yourself, if Israel is "forced" to use them. The only way Israel will use them is if Iran attacks first and if they are losing such a war.

The capabilities of any and all countries, friend or foe, are absolutely irrelevant; IF, Israel believes that Iran possessing a nuclear weapon constitutes an EXISTENTIAL THREAT, they will do whatever it takes, including taking the most desperate measures, to ensure their continued existence. It's simply the most basic law of survival. If you have a gun pointing at me, and I have a grenade, then you can bet we are both going to die at the same time! When faced with DEATH, one does not ask permission to ACT. That said, one, and ONLY one question truly remains: does Israel believe the Iranian's wish to make good on their threat to destroy them utterly? If the Israeli leader's do believe this, and no one else is willing to play interception, then Israel will indeed launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran.

israel is the size of what New Jersey give me a brake!!!!Israel better get Isreal if they think they will take Iran...lets everyone come to grips that Iran is not no back water country...they will wipe the streets up with Israel if only the U.S. does not get involved..Hmmm wonder if it is a ploy..cause you all know the U.S. is lickin its chops over this news they would love for Israel to war with Iran..you all know what sucks about this world and countrys in general??? If your country does not have anything to give to some other country or anything for that other country to steal you might as well kiss your ass goodbye....[human] does that word mean anything to anyone race ,religion,wealth don't mean nothing!!!!!

Originally posted by KLSyesca
israel is the size of what New Jersey give me a brake!!!!Israel better get Isreal if they think they will take Iran...lets everyone come to grips that Iran is not no back water country...they will wipe the streets up with Israel if only the U.S. does not get involved..Hmmm wonder if it is a ploy..cause you all know the U.S. is lickin its chops over this news they would love for Israel to war with Iran..you all know what sucks about this world and countrys in general??? If your country does not have anything to give to some other country or anything for that other country to steal you might as well kiss your ass goodbye....[human] does that word mean anything to anyone race ,religion,wealth don't mean nothing!!!!!

The size of a country has NOTHING to do with the military capabilites of a country. Conventionally, Israel has an edge against Iran, but Iran has more manpower. Israel has the upper hand in nuclear capabilities. When you put these things together, it spell and fiery Middle East. Tens of thousands military casualties, the civiallian death toll will be huge, especially if nuclear weapons come into play.

Well, Israel is taking this a step further. They named Israeli Army Chief of Staff Dan Halutz to prepare for a war with Iran. I suppose this is normal, every country with a sizeable military needs to have plans. But this is a step into a direction many of us don't want to see.

Iran names war coordinator

Originally posted by iqonx

From what i understand it was not free and they would have to pay for it.

So even though Iran had it's uranium which it could mine from it's own country becuase they have one of the largest natural supplies of Uranium in in the world there country from the mountain regions of there nation.

Under the deal they would no longer be allowed to access that or mine it and would have to put there trust in getting there Uranium from other countries and not only that they would also have to pay for it even though they can get it for free from there own supplies in Iran.

Also the reactors that the west was going to give them where not free but Iran would have to fork over $billions of $$$$ for them to German, British, French and American companies becuase Russia doesn't make/sell the types of reactors in the quanitity that Iran needed and equipment that goes with those reactors that the west(Germany, france, Britian and America) want Iran to use instead of heavy water reactors. But interestinly enough Germany, france, Britian and America do make them and are willing to sell them to Iran obviously for a reasonable price

Ok first off I dont think Iran is that rich in uranium, and uranium itself is pretty rare.

Alot of uranium comes from the congo.

Iran refuses to give up heavy water reactors because they need them to create nuclear weapons with. Whats worse is they insist on using designs used specifically to breed plutonium.

They also build and test missiles like they are bottle rockets

you dont think they are buying those reactors from Russia?!

thats foolish....no one gives "gives" anybody anything....thats basic economics

why do they need all those reactors when they can build a few refineries and some power stations and use fossil fuels? It would be a hell of alot cheaper

They are also building P2 centrifudges secretly.


They also have plasma research facilities etc. seems to me like they maybe researching how fusion works as well.

All evidenc points to nuclear weapons production.

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Well, Israel is taking this a step further. They named Israeli Army Chief of Staff Dan Halutz to prepare for a war with Iran. I suppose this is normal, every country with a sizeable military needs to have plans. But this is a step into a direction many of us don't want to see.

Iran names war coordinator

I hate to distract from the discussion, but your link to the news article should read Israel names war coordinator.

Also according to the article you referenced; Air Force Commander Eliezer Shkedy is to manage Israel's armed forces if war breaks out .............

Dan Halutz is Israel's Chief Of Staff. He is the one responsible for making any necessary decisions regarding command appointments.

Sorry to point out the errors but.............

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by iqonx

From what i understand it was not free and they would have to pay for it.

So even though Iran had it's uranium which it could mine from it's own country becuase they have one of the largest natural supplies of Uranium in in the world there country from the mountain regions of there nation.

Under the deal they would no longer be allowed to access that or mine it and would have to put there trust in getting there Uranium from other countries and not only that they would also have to pay for it even though they can get it for free from there own supplies in Iran.

Also the reactors that the west was going to give them where not free but Iran would have to fork over $billions of $$$$ for them to German, British, French and American companies becuase Russia doesn't make/sell the types of reactors in the quanitity that Iran needed and equipment that goes with those reactors that the west(Germany, france, Britian and America) want Iran to use instead of heavy water reactors. But interestinly enough Germany, france, Britian and America do make them and are willing to sell them to Iran obviously for a reasonable price

Ok first off I dont think Iran is that rich in uranium, and uranium itself is pretty rare.

Alot of uranium comes from the congo.

Iran refuses to give up heavy water reactors because they need them to create nuclear weapons with. Whats worse is they insist on using designs used specifically to breed plutonium.

They also build and test missiles like they are bottle rockets

you dont think they are buying those reactors from Russia?!

thats foolish....no one gives "gives" anybody anything....thats basic economics

why do they need all those reactors when they can build a few refineries and some power stations and use fossil fuels? It would be a hell of alot cheaper

They are also building P2 centrifudges secretly.


They also have plasma research facilities etc. seems to me like they maybe researching how fusion works as well.

All evidenc points to nuclear weapons production.

Your wrong the world is chock full of uranium ore it is traded as a comodity on the open market like nickel and gold and Iran has lots and lots of it as does the congo and many other places in Africa. Iran does not want to be at the whim of other countries for its nuclear supply its want to be independent involves a lot of pride (easy answer could be to let Iran enrich its own uranium but have to ship out to russia the spent fuel rods and have the IAC monitor and keep shrewd records.
Dont get me wrong I to believe Iran wants to build bombs, so let them they would not be used for offence or to be given to terrorists thats all propaganda they simply want them because both their neighbors have been invaded and are occupied because Bush called them an axis of evil(disgusting treatment of women and civil right but for different thread) so they want the bomb for defensive measures.

Which would be great for us here in America because it means we wont go into anotehr expensive and costly war for benefit of very few. Think of it if Iran had the bomb they know it would be stupid of them to use it in an offensive manuever they would become glass they just want it so as not to get invaded or be threatened.

Its their loss they want to stay medevil socially economically and technoligically thats something that needs to be addressed from within through revolt and uprising not by outsiders intruding on them causing those in power to gain a very strong following against a common enemy.

Best way to look at these things is by putting yourself in their shoes

would you agree to not have a car because you already have a motorcycle (so what do you want a car for) if your neighbor promises to give you rides and pick things up for you.
No because you dont want to be at their whim

Bushehr is the site of the LIGHT WATER reactor , due to be started very shortly.


do people actually realise how bloody hard it is to actually get plutonium from a LWR?

Russia will be supplying the fuel and taking back the rods every 3>4 years - for PU-240 production these have to be changed every 4 MONTHS.

www.theage.com.au...

have a read : Iran helped the USA in Afghanistan , but are now `the enemy` - ironic really.

Iran has indeed announced its new heavy water treatment plant, which is required to make plutonium, against the expressed permission of the world community, ie the UN.

Heres the bad news:

1. Iran is considered to be the #1 terrorist sponsor in the world.
2. Iran gives weapons and missiles to hizbullah.
3. Iran has been doing whatever it can to destablize Iraq and help the insurgents.

So, the question of the day is, will Iran offer this new plutonium to any terrorist organization willing to deliver it in the form of a dirty bomb, or even worse, a crued nuke? Does any one realize how little weapons grade plutonium it would take to wipe out a city?

I wouldn't wait until the last minute to start on that backyard bunker.

1. Iran is considered to be the #1 terrorist sponsor in the world.


actually the usa sponsors more organisations than all teh rest.
2. Iran gives weapons and missiles to hizbullah.

and the usa supplies missiles and bombs to Israel - whats your point?


3. Iran has been doing whatever it can to destablize Iraq and help the insurgents.

actually The usa with its slap dash attitude to civil disturbance is causing its own sword of damocles.

Originally posted by RecDude

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Well, Israel is taking this a step further. They named Israeli Army Chief of Staff Dan Halutz to prepare for a war with Iran. I suppose this is normal, every country with a sizeable military needs to have plans. But this is a step into a direction many of us don't want to see.

Iran names war coordinator

I hate to distract from the discussion, but your link to the news article should read Israel names war coordinator.

Also according to the article you referenced; Air Force Commander Eliezer Shkedy is to manage Israel's armed forces if war breaks out .............

Dan Halutz is Israel's Chief Of Staff. He is the one responsible for making any necessary decisions regarding command appointments.

Sorry to point out the errors but.............

Thanks for all that... I posted that 3 in the morning.

I dont care who attacks Iran as long as someone does. Iran has been fueling this hatefull ideology against the west for years. The middle east wants holey war lets give it to them.

Originally posted by wantsome
Iran has been fueling this hatefull ideology against the west for years.

And what do you think is the reason for that?? They just hate the freedoms of the West, just like that??

Check out this post here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Israel is more than capable to take out Iran by Air-strikes or nuke attack,i see lot of you dont know s....about military powers in the world Israel is 4 in the world yes 4 with only 5,5 milion citizens or 6 something like that.
They have the most advanced military in the world all the new HI-tech systems are being invented in Israel for U.S military and produced in US.
Nuke iran i agree with most of your posts but the bigest problem or danger for US its your Arogance you think every1 is 3 world dirt country stupid and living in 15 century.
While the researches are showing that the Americans are 1 of the most stupid people in the world every1 is laughing at your school system even your goverment admited that changes have to be made i mean half of your country is 15 century Red neck jesus and Biblie fanatics in the US the leader in to 21.century omg.
And to the guys who just dont get it Israel didnt lose the war against Hezbollah thats stupid RECDUDE said it right but some of you are just to stupid to comprihand that Israel can wipe out lebanon and Syria together with no nukes but convencial weapons but they are being stoped by the world couse of civilian casualties couse holy allah warriors are hideing like biatches among civilians and sending children to clear mine fields(search youtube).
Im from Eu and i support ISRAEL and i say if they the hezbollah hide among civilians they dont respect their own so why should we kill em all!!!!!!
And to get back to topic i think this will happen US will and should attack and nuke Iran and Israel will take out Syria.

Originally posted by super70
Iran has indeed announced its new heavy water treatment plant, which is required to make plutonium

- Yeah true but that leaves out a hell of a lot of what is required.

There is a lot of processing required to get any plutonium out of this. The 'plant' - and expertise - required for this is enormous and can't be hidden or just conjured up out of thin air.

Ask the UK, 'we' tried setting up a major business (NIREX) to do this, it took a long time (despite our decades old expertise and infrastructure in nuclear matters) to set up and along time beyond that to produce anything worthwhile by way of usable commercial plutonium, in fact it was a commercial failure.

BTW this processing has been already been agreed to be done in Russia, not Iran at all actually.

against the expressed permission of the world community, ie the UN.

- I don't think you are correct here.

Iran was asked to suspend enrichment, which is not the same thing at all.

Heres the bad news:

1. Iran is considered to be the #1 terrorist sponsor in the world.

- The sad truth is that this is something hardly restricted to Iran alone, it all depends on your POV.
Guess who else is considered by many in the world to be one of if not the biggest causes of danger/terrorism?

2. Iran gives weapons and missiles to hizbullah.

- Debateable.......but and what, anyway?
Guess who is only too happy to keep 'the other side' up to their armpits in weapons and ammunition.

3. Iran has been doing whatever it can to destablize Iraq and help the insurgents.

- Would that be as 'destabilising' to that country/region as an invasion and occupation?!

.....and IIRC there is a Marine General on record (recently) as saying there is no evidence of Iran being involved with the Iraqi 'insurgency'.

So, the question of the day is, will Iran offer this new plutonium to any terrorist organization willing to deliver it in the form of a dirty bomb, or even worse, a crued nuke?

- No, this is merely adding to the scare stories.

If Iran were as crazy as you want to suggest they would have sent umteen dozen young men to suicide themselves with the WMDs already in Iran's possession (the chemical and biological weapons they have had for decades).

Does any one realize how little weapons grade plutonium it would take to wipe out a city?

- Do you not realise that Iran will not be doing any processing of the material from the heavy water reactor to get plutonium?
Do you not realise how unsuited the (24/7 observed) enriched uranium they are making (IIRC at 2.5 - 4%) is to bomb-making?

I wouldn't wait until the last minute to start on that backyard bunker.

- Sorry but these crazy scary tales that boil down to little more than a claim that 'we better start a war now cos we're scared that one day they might start a war' is just insane, paranoid, futile, self-harming and wholly avoidable, IMO.

I think it will cause all concerned nothing but the greatest and most appalling damage one way or another ........ but keep up the threats and intimidation and watch what happens.



[edit on 27-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]