The Time Has Arrived to Practice Quantum Physics, My Friends...

Im glad harmony seems to be the vibrational frequency here again

As far as new age stuff goes and the label new age lets analyses this for a second. As lazurus has rightly said that modern QP QP or Quntum Confusion to label it more correctly is certainly a "new age" type of science ? wouldnt you agree, I remember when Flavors were first introduced to explain the newly theoretical wave functions or as they were called Particles (lol) of Gluons and the like in early theory ....so truly were is the new age label best aimed at? the massively long held belief in philosophy and religeon that consciousness creates or effects reality or the very new field of Quantum exploration in science?

I really feel some of the posters should maybe explore some of the Tibetan buddhist Thought and witnessed phenomena, as well as shamanism and the like amongst most of the cultures of the earth. I know which one truly is "new Age"

One of the main meditations of some such people is to visualise and experiance themselves as the higher beings they want to be become eg buddha so often and so much that they eventualy develop that deities qualities and attributes.... interesting stuff, also how some lamas have been shown to stop their own heartbeat and also melt snow around them for hours whilst feeling and visualising certain esoteric flames within themselves (this has been double blind trailed and is without current scientific understanding or "possibilty")

having said that I as stated earlier having some practical and educational experiance in the western "science" of the Quantum world hope that the observations and theory and Math and results obtained by experiment will bring us closer to bringing these same understandings , albeit from differant perspectives together to enhance human kinds ability to ultimately "see the face of gog" for want of a better analogy.


LOVE and Light

Elf



[edit on 24-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
My B.Sc is in environmental engineering and management and yes corperations have paid me for consultancy.

It is a sad world, when a corporation pays a consultant who can't spell "corporation". Spellcheck is good for words more complex than that.

I think it's really important to define terms. I guess many voiced their concerns that in this thread, a kind of "Art of Living" philosophy was assigned a name that's already used for a particular branch of knowledge. I don't see what is achieved by this other than confusion and obscurity.

It's about as silly as calling the theory of neutron diffusion "shamanism", and claim that spirits help us build nuclear reactors. And weapons. The project leader then should assume the title of "Chief Shaman".

Maybe im dyslexic? maybe not?

will happily u2u my yearbook of graduation soon.

maybe im also working at home on a proposal for financing a new project in Wales UK for a Gas pipeline whilst trying my best to look after the kids and caring for my Demented due to alziemers Nan.

Some people dont have time to talk and post and etc and etc... some people can check all they post, Ive always found that content not form is important and the firm I sub contract from has good secreataries and PA's. As my income stream is based on commission of accepted projects I only really worry about that, not my presentaion on ATSNN.

BTW the accountant firm for the company I am currently preparing this proposal for on sub contractual basis for this, is a part time practicing Shaman teacher too.

Ronald reagan never made a major decision without first consulting a Astrologer...hey he was the president of the most powerfull nation on earth. Strange old world. I will endevour to only post when I can be a net nerd in the future and spell check all. BTW do you remeber before PC's were everywhere? before the first true net? I do the first Mac's I was using in the school I luckily went to at the age of 13 using spell checks, when the first web cam came on line , you know watching the coffee pot.

Thanks for the comments Thought I had added something to this thread as I straddle both camps and have no blind faith. Thanks for the constructive critisism much appreciated I am well into personal development like the author of the thread and most in ATS

Regards and Love and Light

Elf


[edit on 24-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by Aelita

It is a sad world, when a corporation pays a consultant who can't spell "corporation". Spellcheck is good for words more complex than that.

I think it's really important to define terms.

Picking on spelling is about as petty as it gets Aelita... come on now...

and you are right, lets get those terms correct shall we?

If there is a theory that delves into the affect (effect?) of consciousness and observation across vast distances...
would that theory not be delving into the science of QP?

is there another field of science that is as all encompassing to explain these shown and tested effects?

maybe a new science that will replace QP by being more inclusive... thereby answering more unknowns? (and will probably also be replaced by an even further understanding later on)

If there is anything that a scientist should know (in any field, even mathmatics), is that new "facts" are being found everyday/month/year... so be careful what theorys you get married to...

the understanding of the universe, and all its laws (and perhaps how strict they are) is a process that i predict will continue far after Stephen Hawking is a cryopop, and perhaps even after he is revived as an 8ft cyborg...

But i like where this theory is going... It connects with much of what I have studied as far as the few true "spiritual miracles"
and being a man of science, I would prefer to think there is a scientific reason for these...
QP seems to be the most accurate science to use to interpret the data...

Skandi is right... tibetian monks, various martial disciplines, some indian fakirs, native american shaman, south american tribal shaman, and even whirling dervishes

they all show that there is some "force" that interacts on a nonlocalized basis, with the human consciousness...
I want to know why...

It seems to me, that in order for us to have clear communication (especially on a forum such as this) we should be doing it in e-prime.

Lazarus,

it's definitely true that quantum mechanics treats objects and interactions in a non-localized manner, which is effectively "fields". However, it's quite a quantum leap (pun intended) to connect shamanism with quantum mechanics.

Unless we are able to understand consciousness at a much, much higher level than we are capable of today, any statement connecting some kind of "omnipresent consciousness" and quantum mechanics is nothing more than a pure speculation in the "new age" tradition. I could add that every atomic nucleus in the Universe is a distinct intelligent being! Heck, maybe it's possible but it's silly to speculate about it given the current level of knowledge.

Quantum mechanics means doing more or less hard math, more often than not. Even the paradoxes that illustrate its unique properties have mathematical foundations. Replacing it with obscure references to some unspecified forces of Universe simply trivialalizes it and as such serves no useful purpose.

Einstein poo pooed the whole concept of quantum entanglements calling them "spooky action at a distance". He laughed at the concept. Schrodinger used the cat thought experiment to show his distain for the absurdity of quantum action. So being laughed at by scientists (who are frequently proven wrong by new advancements) isn't exactly always a bad thing.

Nobody understands it. It's counter-intuitive to say the least. Yes, it's unfortunate that there are people out there who will purposefully obfuscate what the facts are for their own ends, but at this point, I don't believe anyone has enough of a handle on it to objectively state once and for all what's bunk and what isn't.

I've got big respect for those willing to push the envelope and strike out in directions deemed "laughable" by conventional experts. That's where the breakthroughs have always come.

Let the scientists do the math. I use stuff every day without the ability to explain exactly how it works. But it works. And that's the crux (for me) of quantum conciousness/power of positive thinking/power of intention.

Originally posted by yeahright
I've got big respect for those willing to push the envelope and strike out in directions deemed "laughable" by conventional experts. That's where the breakthroughs have always come.

It's only true if the person who's pushing the envelope etc etc etc is an expert in his own right. Think Copernicus...

I understand what you mean. And yes, there are experts in quantum physics. But I think we've determined the semantic difference between hardcore science/math quantum mechanics and the more mystical (maybe) quantum consciousness field. And maybe there's a convergence on some level. That has yet to be determined, but it appears to this admittedly ignorant observer that we may be heading in that direction.

My only point was that I don't believe it's always a bad thing to be laughed at by convention.

O.K. I think I found a solid-seeming bridge between mysticism/paranormal and legitimate science right here on ATS! I think it might (in a way) clear up some of the arguments here.

Check out this thread, it will get you thinking:Tryptamines and God If nothing else, it is a very fun read. Don't let the title scare you.

Originally posted by dgtempe
For the next few days, i urge you to expect nothing but good things to come our way. The Universe will respond, i guarantee you.

So placing human expectation on the universe somehow changes things? Please explain. I understand that in Quantum Physics, a still relatively new and unproven scientific field, shows that the behavior of atoms and quarks seems to obey the laws of mathematics, rather than mathematics being defined by the behavior of small particles, but I fail to see how this applies to wishful thinking.

The universe will not let harm come to us...at least not now....if we all collectively think positively and summon good things.

Really? Tell that to the millions of AIDs victims in Africa. Are you saying that if they think really hard about not having AIDs they will suddenly be cured? This seems like a deeply irrisponsible, even dangerous philosophy (especially if it prevents people in need from receiving treatment).

Times are bad, but if we show good vibrations, the universe will comply.

What exactly are "good" vibrations. I don't remember reading about them in Quantum Physics. Are there "bad" vibrations. What's the difference between the two?

Even if you dont believe in QP, just try this small effort. You will see, we will be safe.

Please, please, please don't mask pseudo science and religion in science. Call a spade a spade. If you believe in the power of positive thinking, new age spiritual vibrations, and energy chakras, that's fine, more power to you, but don't try to pass it off as legitimate science when you clearly have very little understanding of Quantum Mechanics.

Just be honest in your posts. That's all I ask.

Originally posted by Athenion
What exactly are "good" vibrations. I don't remember reading about them in Quantum Physics. Are there "bad" vibrations. What's the difference between the two?

Not a "Beach Boys" fan, I take it. Give a listen to "Good Vibrations". Then think about a beach. What's on a beach? Sand. How many grains of sand in the world? Plenty. What's a property of sand? It's abrasive. Ever have sand in your skivvies?

Then you know how I feel.

And that's entanglement.

Maybe.

Originally posted by yeahright
Not a "Beach Boys" fan, I take it.

How can anyone not like the album Pet Sounds?

And for the record, I find sand in my underwear incedibly enlightening.

If by "enlightening" you mean "incredibly awesome".

Originally posted by Athenion
So placing human expectation on the universe somehow changes things? Please explain. I understand that in Quantum Physics, a still relatively new and unproven scientific field, shows that the behavior of atoms and quarks seems to obey the laws of mathematics, rather than mathematics being defined by the behavior of small particles, but I fail to see how this applies to wishful thinking.

Really? Tell that to the millions of AIDs victims in Africa. Are you saying that if they think really hard about not having AIDs they will suddenly be cured?

Using your example, thinking positive wont solve it, but it will help...
thinking negatively would hurt... isn't that the whole point here?

lets extrapolate...
Aids is caused from a virus...
and viruses are agents that infect certain types of cells within our body...
Did you know that HIV doesn't always result in AIDS?
for some unknown reason, the virus sometimes gets over a "hump" in the bodies immune system (which can be boosted by thinking positively) and then starts actually killing you... instead of remaining fairly quiet and harmless...

This is one aspect that yes, could actually help in resolving some of the crisis (less AIDS cases from the HIV infected) but of course, others will say that this would cause more harm... due to more infection spread from unknown victims.

that is where the next boost from positive thinking comes in...
If a society accepts that sex is positive, and acceptable between ADULTS then taboos get shattered, and education can begin...

education of causes and prevention of infection is what will stop AIDS in africa... nothing else...
and thinking positively will help promote a brighter future for infected people (who might never develop full blown AIDS due to positive thinking),
who then might start spreading the educated word, instead of ignorantly spreading the virus.

this hasn't really scratched the realm of the QP effects yet, but I think you can see how positive thinking will help any situation far more than negative thinking will...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Using your example, thinking positive wont solve it, but it will help...
thinking negatively would hurt... isn't that the whole point here?

lets extrapolate...
Aids is caused from a virus...
and viruses are agents that infect certain types of cells within our body...
Did you know that HIV doesn't always result in AIDS?
for some unknown reason, the virus sometimes gets over a "hump" in the bodies immune system (which can be boosted by thinking positively) and then starts actually killing you... instead of remaining fairly quiet and harmless...

This is one aspect that yes, could actually help in resolving some of the crisis (less AIDS cases from the HIV infected) but of course, others will say that this would cause more harm... due to more infection spread from unknown victims.

I'm not denying the power of the human mind, nor it's control over the body which is connected to and directly controlled by my brain. But that's not really being what's said here.

Yes, there is evidence that if I think harder about increasing my white blood cell count, I can. But that's me using my brain to cause physiological changes within my own body.

What's being proposed here is the equivalent of me thinking about you having more white blood cells, and you suddenly having more. Sadly, there is exactly zero evidence that this works. And believe me, they've tried many, many times to find evidence of it's effectiveness.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think positive thinking will effect anything, if there is no action involved. I can sit in my bedroom all day long thinking positively about how I wish the AIDs virus would go away, and guess what, it will have zero effect on the AIDs virus. Or I could contribute some money to AIDs research and actually make a difference.

And while I agree that some people have been helped by positive thinking, I think it's fair to say that many more, even trillions more, have been helped by science and medicine.

So which seems more effective. Wishing away the worlds evils with good vibrations, or getting off your butt and trying to do something about it?


editted to remove some of the many glaring spelling errors.

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Athenion]

I understand why it's hard to believe. But these physicists are taking this seriously, and they say that the mind is not operating at full potential yet. So if the mind is still evolving, we wont be able to create our own physical reality from a simple thought for at least another 10 million years.

Street Corner Philosopher:

To sum things up, would you say that the initial tittle of this thread was way incorrect and i should change it? You agree with me in my beleifs, but i dont think the tittle correctly reflects what i was trying to accomplish.
What would you name this thread?

You do agree that raising ones vibrations by thinking positive thoughts aligns us with the universe, therefore the universe in turn provides us with what we want and expect?? This is a very confusing subject and i need clarity. As i said, i've been reading all about it...from the very scientific to the application of it in every day life. My intention here was to apply it to daily life but i should have known that this is so in depth that merely calling for people to do quantum physics is irrational, because one must know the full workings.

Lazarusthelong, i'd also like to hear you sum it up, just so i can be straight on my facts.

thanks

Originally posted by Athenion

So which seems more effective. Wishing away the worlds evils with good vibrations, or getting off your butt and trying to do something about it?

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Athenion]

Ahh, a consensus perhaps...
I say that both efforts are required almost equally... for effective change or paradigm shift to occur.
both together make for a level of synergistic action rather than the single efforts of both summed...

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
I understand why it's hard to believe. But these physicists are taking this seriously, and they say that the mind is not operating at full potential yet. So if the mind is still evolving, we wont be able to create our own physical reality from a simple thought for at least another 10 million years.

Once again, we're not talking about science here, we're talking about religion. The term Quantum Physics alone simply means the physical behavior of subatomic particles. There are some theories, some very speculative theories, about the behavior of these subatomic particles as it relates to the observer and mathematics, but nothing, absolutely nothing, indicating this has any sort of effect other than on the subatomic particle.

For example, by observing several quarks, yes, we change their behavior. This does not translate into by wishing my computer had more RAM it will suddenly make it so.

If this were the case, then every computer nerd in the world would be married to a woman who looks just like Milla Jovovich in the Fifth Element.

You are presenting your own religious and philisophical theories as scientific fact, and that's pretty annoying.

Originally posted by dgtempe
You do agree that raising ones vibrations by thinking positive thoughts aligns us with the universe, therefore the universe in turn provides us with what we want and expect?? This is a very confusing subject and i need clarity. As i said, i've been reading all about it...from the very scientific to the application of it in every day life. My intention here was to apply it to daily life but i should have known that this is so in depth that merely calling for people to do quantum physics is irrational, because one must know the full workings.

Again, raising ones vibrations? What are you even talking about? Even the concept that the universe is vibrating at all, much less on different frequencies, is a highly theoretical idea. And Aligns us with the universe? If we exist in the universe, and the theories about vibrational matter are correct, then we already are vibrating on the same frequency, because we can observe matter. According to String Theory, which postulates the whole vibrating loops concept, in order to observe our reality and universe, we would have to be vibrating on the same frequency. The other vibrational frequencies exist to account for the necessary 8 to 12 extra dimensions needed to make string theory work to unify the behavior of the four force types with relativity. So you already are vibrating at the same frequency as the universe.

Your language alone betrays your lack of understand. You are anthropomorphizing the universe, giving it human emotions and characteristics, stating it will "provide you with what you want". That's just plain wrong, and goes against everything observed by science. And calling everyone to "do Quantum Physics". I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to your belief system, but don't mislabel it as something it is not. You are not talking about the science of Quantum Physics. You are talking about your own personal religious beliefs, but trying to somehow legitimize them as truth by using pseudo scientific labels.

Greetings explorers of Reality, Consciousness and the very small world of the Quantum Realm, maybe that is a better description for this subject the quantum Realm, its encapsulates both the Science bit and also the consciousness bit too.
Lazurus The Long thanks for your posts most informative and all others too.

Just one thing to point out Lazarus this is not the Evil elf, but the Mischievous one, a very different flavour or species indeed lol.

To all other posters and Dgtempe the Author thank you for stretching and opening up my awareness of this subject with your points of view, knowledge, experience and input to this thread. I find this subject and have for a long time very fascinating and feel it truly is where the true developments in society, science and individuals will come from in the next 20 – 50 years.

The potential is huge for this subject, both from a very scientific understanding of the forces of nature and how the universe is truly made and operates and also for reconciling or building bridges between native cultures wisdom, religion and understanding and modern societies understanding. If a synthesis can me made between the two taking just the testable and provable and GOOD from both camps it can only help the development and ultimately evolve Humankinds awareness and participation and positive influence in and on the world or universe around us.

However having said that and trying to keep this thread as asked by Mods not a slinging match I find I cannot Help myself from being a bit tongue in cheek in some of the following, nothing is personal but sometimes as when a hysterical person is in psychosis and closed of to the truth and reality around them, a distraction sometimes works where reasoning does not.

Therefore the following is not a slap in the face of anyone, just a gentle shove towards the truth. I CANNOT SUPPORT SUPPORTING IGNORANCE… and I feel if anyone can here they are members of the wrong site? Wouldn’t you agree?
Some posters seem to be so adamant with such things as you would never find a scientist taking this seriously or whatever, things such as the facts do not support this idea…. Well to be frank as said in a earlier post I actually sit in both camps and all I can say in return is What are you Going on about? Leave the high school textbooks alone and don’t call yourself scientists or posit an understanding of Science on this subject if you do not use your own criteria of using facts and observable measurable phenomena done by others, if they don’t fit your own Paradigm. That’s not science That truly is New Age religion, your gods though must be text books and lecturers who are not keeping up to date with current (and sometimes nearly 20 year old data!!) as they got their information from a bygone age of just post WW2 understanding.

So lets analyse this further and look at some real Science on this subject, lets keep this to PhD holders as they generally are able by this qualification to be able to lecture and pass on there understanding to others, and indeed as some here seem to be so linked to what the very famous and groundbreaking Nildram (PhD psychology) showed in some experiments, the white coat syndrome, this is a well known topic in Psychology. That people will transfer greater levels of acceptance and trust and believe, and incorporate another persons ideas and beliefs into there own structure of understanding the world around them, into their own “global view”. This has been shown in experimentation to enable someone of that status to make someone else accept unreasonable orders on their behaviour, and on how to behave and think due to deference to their status and the perceived “they must be right” “they know what they are doing” “they understand it more than me” blah blah well to be true in lots of cases this can be poppycock…lets look at the man in a white coat who said of Einstein that “he will never amount to anything” lol…. Well this man was an expert in Mathematics… and paradoxically lets look at Einstein’s Cosmological Constant, a paradigm he couldn’t let go of himself and spent most of his later life searching for.

I can’t spell well as pointed out, does that mean I don’t know much about Science etc…? Well I am the one being paid for my knowledge in this area, who else posting in this thread is? Einstein often walked around with a coat hanger in his jacket and odd socks… he couldn’t spell either and was Awful at subtraction compared to all other areas of math…was it therefore a sad world to listen to his theory of relativity??

Its laughable to be honest some of the statements posted in here but I say that not in a condescending manner just nudging some towards looking at their paradigms and maybe the truth, however that’s for you to decide. I am sure many laugh at my posts too.

Am I trying to say I am like Einstein in ability … not in the least, not even as close as one grain of sand compared to a beach. I always found math the hardest part of my degree and school, have to really really work at it, like my spelling, but I do have a very good ability in other areas such as systems and overall project management and “the bigger picture” rather than the detail. We all have knowledge skills and experience in different areas; this uniqueness is what makes the world work on a human level and also interesting.

So lets look then in this threads general theme where the Quantum Realm, Consciousness and Real Science seem to be converging, and leave the semantics and compartmentalisation alone, therefore:

Look at the following, and I truly urge anyone who states that there is no empirical evidence for consciousness effecting the external world, and as some have said that it is impossible for positive thinking to affect other humans at a distance to click on the link and read this thoroughly. As crime can definitely be described a sickness of the mind i.e. the thoughts and actions of such things are not healthy? I think all would have to agree with this… so have a GOOD look at this: (This I know is mentioned in WTBDWK but this is not a documentary but a paper by a PhD Holder to appease some in here) this is information from an AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BODY NAMELY:

Institute of Science, technology and Public Policy I hope this source will be enough of a “white coat” for some people to open up their minds on this subject. Also it is in response to the Sceptical enquirer, which seems very fitting!