women hate nice guys

Hey now I married a nice guy and couldn't be happier.
I'm nice most of the time but my lil mean streak balances us out nicely

One bit of advice I can give you ... if it is a serious relationship you're after that is ... look outside your country's borders. I don't doubt you will have much better luck. My husband was tired of the attitude of the (mostly American) women he was meeting and mind you he has travelled the country and the world extensively. I too wasn't finding what I was keeping an eye out for (cause I can't say I was actually looking, I was happily single for some time) in my home country of Australia. We met, we fell in love, The End. Or should I say The Beginning ... of a lovely life. We are an Arab Aussie and an Afro American living in Japan lol We're worldwide and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Just seems to me the values and morals both men and women used to have are declining and I find it just sad. People are much more concerned with what someone can buy for them or do for them but are quick to forget that they gotta put up the goods too.

And don't even get me started on how superficial and shallow society has become.
Just remember this, the physical attributes one possess brings nothing substantial to a relationship Looking good is cool but it doesn't mean a thing when it comes to any kind of relationship.




[edit on 24-11-2006 by ImJaded]

crude and unpolished yeah i can agree witht that i dont really mind its who i am most of the time, but really dont get the wrong idea. but i just dont geet these "nice" guys who dont really understand that the game hasnt really changed all that much since they were about 5 years old. if you want the little girl to play doctor with you today then yesterday you had better been chasing her around with bugs, pulling her hair, making fun of and teasing her, and throwing her doll in the mud. granted the way you do it now that you are older is different but the concept remains the same. its all about how she percieves you if you come across as weak, as far as the talking about sex thing its simple if you cant talk about it comfortably and boldly ahe knows your not gonna be any fun. and just because im telling you to be a man is in no way condoning bad behavior there is a fine line between being an ass and well you get the idea.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Jovi1]

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Conclusions:

Women Suck.


Yup...thats all.

Your not switching teams on us now are ya?. Just playin man. They do have there perks though.

Well, here is my two cents.and since I have been married
well let's just say a couple times
I will give you my perspective.

I want a man that is first and foremost
HONEST
He also needs to be able to laugh
and have a good sense of humor, even if it is at his own expense
because he is strong in himself and knows his strengths and faults
and accepts them.
He must love to debate a good issue, and not just agree with me
Have another view into a subject.....
( I love that).keeps me fresh and on my toes!
He must be strong and able to protect me ,
but gentle with his words and touch at times.

He cannot want a Mommy to take care of him

I found this man........
I loved this man for a very short seven years ,
have two beautiful children with him-----------
and he died suddenly!

And now knowing the pain love can bring

I have a very hot boyfriend who lives in his own house ,
Me in mine
and we say.........LOL........HI........LOL........when I feel the need!

I think I now have the best of all worlds........

I get to kick him out in the morning!

Does that make me a bad woman???

No it does not make you a bad woman. I have done precisely the same with women here.

If you are carrying your own load...you dont have to justify that to any person. They can all get lost if they cross that line.

Thanks,
Orangetom.

Based on evolutionary evidence, women would want more than just a nice guy. As has been reiterated in this thread already, women desire men who are "manly" men, who provide them with some physical security or whatever. I've been the nice man my whole life and it's gotten me nowhere. You definitely have to have a healthy balance of both being nice, and putting your foot down when necessary. "Normal" women don't want a man who necessarily always agrees with them. A little disagreement is healthy for a relationship, and women tend to respect a man who stands up for what he believes in. Also, on the average, women like to feel somewhat dependant on their man, so a little bit of "not-so-nice-ness" helps them to feel like you're taking care of them and taking responsibility for them. This isn't to say you should be mean, but if you're too nice it can give them a sense of....god...I don't even know what!

You know what? Women are a complete mystery to me! I have no clue what I'm talking about and that's probably why I'm single! I sometimes envy gay men in the fact that they have an understanding of their lovers' needs and desires, or atleast to a greater extent than heterosexuals do. It's also easier for women because men are no mystery to them. Men are much simpler creatures than women, and women know they have a lot of control when it comes to relationships. I think many of us men are just destined to be alone for the rest of our lives! *sigh*

:bnghd:

Originally posted by an3rkist
Based on evolutionary evidence, women would want more than just a nice guy. As has been reiterated in this thread already, women desire men who are "manly" men, who provide them with some physical security or whatever. I've been the nice man my whole life and it's gotten me nowhere. You definitely have to have a healthy balance of both being nice, and putting your foot down when necessary. "Normal" women don't want a man who necessarily always agrees with them. A little disagreement is healthy for a relationship, and women tend to respect a man who stands up for what he believes in. Also, on the average, women like to feel somewhat dependant on their man, so a little bit of "not-so-nice-ness" helps them to feel like you're taking care of them and taking responsibility for them. This isn't to say you should be mean, but if you're too nice it can give them a sense of....god...I don't even know what!

You know what? Women are a complete mystery to me! I have no clue what I'm talking about and that's probably why I'm single! I sometimes envy gay men in the fact that they have an understanding of their lovers' needs and desires, or atleast to a greater extent than heterosexuals do. It's also easier for women because men are no mystery to them. Men are much simpler creatures than women, and women know they have a lot of control when it comes to relationships. I think many of us men are just destined to be alone for the rest of our lives! *sigh*

:bnghd:

an3rkist,

Women are not that big a mystery. Neither are men. I too am destined to be alone the rest of my life by preference.

I love the company of women at times. Much more than hanging about with a bunch of men. I just enjoy my solitude at times too. You just have to learn to think further than the standard male defaults ...into the arena of motivations ...multidimensional thinking. YOu know..like the thinking and conduct it takes to work one of those cubes...Rubic Cubes.
Motivations..what motivates a person to do and think the things they do and think.

What men have is more textbook predictable motivations than women. Also different thinking in how they achieve the goals stimulated by these motivations. Women are different in this arena. Significantly different.
It is not that big a quantum leap to understand this difference.

I think you have a certain lack of confidence...or the ability to lead.

Men can be a great mystery to women too. Dont sell yourself short here. I dont worry if I am a mystery to a woman. Thats just the way it is..she can deal with it or go somewhere else.

Many Gay couples have this dominant submissive relationship just as do hetero couples.

Confidence...Confidence..Confidence...Lead...

Not being a nice guy is leading too. Learn to lead..even when you make a mistake.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I think you have a certain lack of confidence...or the ability to lead.

Well, I think you've got a point here. I have plenty of confidence, there's no shortage of that in my personality. As for the ability to lead...well, that may be a different story. If a woman wants a man to "lead" her then she's definitely not going to like me. I want a woman to be herself no matter how different that makes her from me. I refuse to "lead" a woman on any level. The relationship I see for myself is one where two completely different people have a symbiotic relationship based on their ability to feed off of each others differences. I don't want a woman who is like me at all. I want her to be independant and freethinking. So if women are looking for men to be their leaders I guess I'm just SOL as far as a real relationship goes.

In my experience, women don't hate nice guys, they just hate guys who can't be anything but nice, yaknow? Who wants to have a relationship with a simpering doormat?

I would think that most women want a guy who can be nice, but also one who can be a tough, heartless brute, when the situation calls for it.

Nice guys are great to have around when everything is roses, but there are times when only a brute can get the job done. If you're out on the town and a couple of bums start hassling you, what's a nice guy gonna do - reason with them, run away, beg for mercy?



The brute will intimidate them, or, push-come-to-shove, he'll smash face and drag them around by their filthy hair to teach them some manners.

By the same token, who wants to bring a mean, unrefined brute to cocktail party, or the theater, or even dinner at mom's? A nice guy can really shine in those situations, whereas the brute will be an embarassment.

A good man has to be both, effortlessly switching between personalities to meet the demands of the occasion. It's just like the duality of woman that we're always hearing about - you know, men want a virgin and a whore...

It would appear to me that women want a gentleman and a brute.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
In my experience, women don't hate nice guys, they just hate guys who can't be anything but nice, yaknow? Who wants to have a relationship with a simpering doormat?

I would think that most women want a guy who can be nice, but also one who can be a tough, heartless brute, when the situation calls for it.

Nice guys are great to have around when everything is roses, but there are times when only a brute can get the job done. If you're out on the town and a couple of bums start hassling you, what's a nice guy gonna do - reason with them, run away, beg for mercy?

The brute will intimidate them, or, push-come-to-shove, he'll smash face and drag them around by their filthy hair to teach them some manners.

By the same token, who wants to bring a mean, unrefined brute to cocktail party, or the theater, or even dinner at mom's? A nice guy can really shine in those situations, whereas the brute will be an embarassment.

A good man has to be both, effortlessly switching between personalities to meet the demands of the occasion. It's just like the duality of woman that we're always hearing about - you know, men want a virgin and a whore...

It would appear to me that women want a gentleman and a brute.

WyrdOne,

I must agree with you on the doormat part. Well said. This is precisely what I mean when I state ..replacing your value systems with theirs.

I would not necessarily declare that they want a man who can be a tough heartless brute...per se. I think women want a man with Heart...not heartless. It must however be the right kind of Heart...not necessarily thiers...as in doormat heart.

I have long ago gotten out of most of that stuff of "rescuing " women from their problems..though they still try to get me to accomodate them in this role. That includes fighting over them or for them. To many other women out here to be shedding my blood fighting for them...including rescuing them from problems ...car home etc etc...things for which they should be intregating themselves into solving for themselves.
I'd rather go fishing. It's much more peaceful.
I enjoy the company of a woman who can bring peace and rest to me. They can be diffucult to find in this high speed..fast food lane world. In this arena ..the "Force" is very weak in many of them. This is because the "Force " is also weak in many men.

gotta go..work to do..no women to rescue me or flashdance me thorough these tasks...but it will be peaceful.

Thanks,
Orangetom

You're right, heartless was a poor choice of words, it wasn't really what I meant.

It helps to find someone that shares your goals. You can kind of get used to each other's looks (or lack of them) and learn to compromise on small issues but not having a common direction will eventually lead you in separate directions. I don't mean common interests but GOALS. Just because you both like bowling or Motley Crue will not be enough to keep your interest in each other alive. You have to agree on things like how money is dealt with in a relationship (money issues are a big relationship buster), whether you want kids, how many, etc. People get together because they like each other's looks, enjoy the sex, share some common interests and then break up over things like one partner working a job and the other partner wanting them home more. If both have the same goal of ambitious monetary drive, both will be satisfied with the previously mentioned arrangement. Lots of examples of this but just throwing this one out there to give you the idea.
You have to know yourself, be comfortable and unapologetic for who you are and look for/be open to someone who's Willing to know you and be comfortable and unapologetic for who you are, too. BTW, that's a 2-way street.

Yes they do, you are exactly right.

This is why I stopped being a nice guy with them, when I was a nice guy no women would consider dating me.

Now that i have a jerk attitude, it seems like women want me more, go figure.:shk:

I am not a complete jerk though, I just like busting their balls.

First and foremost, the following opinion is being expressed by someone with a vagina:

I recently broke up with someone whom you'd probably describe as "a nice guy". In fact, he sounds exactly like you.
He did all of the things you listed above and he's also had more girlfriends than you can probably comprehend. He's sweet, respectful, thoughtful and all that. He paid when we went out and got me expensive gifts and walked with me everywhere. Yet every girlfriend he's had breaks up with him within two months.
Wondering why?
We could talk and be romantic with each other, but he didn't really know me. And he didn't care either.
All he wanted was a girl to pamper, take out and call his own. And he did that just fine. And I don't hesitate to say he's the best boyfriend I've ever had.
However, you seem to go out with women without really knowing them. All I have to say is be yourself, say only what you mean and don't necessarily look for a girl. Who knows? One of your best friends whom you never thought much of could be your soulmate!

Originally posted by Paresthesia
First and foremost, the following opinion is being expressed by someone with a vagina:

yumm yumm!

Yep. Nice guys are sweet but boring... cocky guys are brazen and arrogant and rude, but wild and confident and fun...

I wonder why the "women hate nice guys" threads are always THE most active threads on any forum? Don't people get tired of endlessly going over and over and over this same axiom?

Originally posted by asala
As a women, I will tell you what I think it is,

I guess that adds credence to Whitney Houston's "I'm every woman, they're all in me"

Originally posted by asala
there's a point of being too nice, meaning it kinda makes us feel that there's a hidden agenda, kinda smarmy,

Women don't dislike a nice guy but there has to be a middle...

I'll just add to that Asla..

On a serious note what you say there does fit with many women but not all. The problem is when you deal with different women, who respond to different impotuses you'll get different mixed signals. Some women prefer a guy to 'take control', others perhaps prefer a more laid back approach. It really does depend on whom you're dealing with. The only advice I can give and for the record I've never had a proper girlfriend but I'm going on instinct and what I've observed over time. You have to 'attune' yourself to the woman you're with. Basically you just need to learn what she likes/dislikes and work around that.

I guess there are 'core' characteristics that a woman wants in a man. Reliability, honesty, compassion and confidence. I may have missed something but that's what I think matters. Still I'm not a woman and I'm only going on guess work here lol.

Best advice is "be yourself". It's cliché and cheesy yes but it's the fundamental principle when dealing with relationships (both romantically and friendship). Since you cannot pretend to be someone or something else all the time and sooner or later people will peel away the veneer you've erected. Afterall if they want to spend their time with you then they will get to know the real you.

Originally posted by worksoftplayhard
someone help please women too. im at the end of my rope here.

Don't be hard on yourself, even though there are a lot of good people in this world there's still not enough of them. If you change your ways in order to be 'cool' and 'fit in' then you're selling yourself out and become another faceless pr*ck in a world full of them.

[edit on 8/3/07 by Flyboy211]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Now that i have a jerk attitude, it seems like women want me more, go figure.:shk:

I am not a complete jerk though, I just like busting their balls.

Uhh...Dude? You might want to have another look under the hood. Sounds like some kind of "Crying Game" thing going on there.

Originally posted by an3rkist
Men are much simpler creatures than women, and women know they have a lot of control when it comes to relationships. I think many of us men are just destined to be alone for the rest of our lives! *sigh*

:bnghd:

I don't think that's true, I believe it's the other way around! If you look at the most troubled of minds, ones that often have been brilliant yet with a conflicted mind they are often men. Minds such as Einstein's & Nash's.

Sexually men are easy because they find it hard to reject a sexual advance by a woman, except when A) the man is not sexually desperate and is not desperate to sleep with anyone & B) he doesn't consider her attractive enough. The reason why men are so willing is simply because they are not aesthetically pleasing as a woman. Whilst being a man this opens me for bias. I can evidence my statement by looking at how women speak of other women, calling them beautiful. While men simply don't do that with other men. Because of this, men are hit on a lot less than women. Therefore the rare sexual invitation many men will get will be viewed as 'I have no choice; don't get many offers anyway".

Of course the exceptions are the two reasons given above and the men that are in high demand (which aren't that many if you look at the totality of the population). Celebrity men whether actors, sportsmen, models (to some degree), musicians etc who have a big female following will always have sexual offers and highely likely from attractive women given the wealth of choice they have compared to the average man.

So in short, the vast majority of women (much higher than the majority of men) will always be in demand sexually for a period of time because that is nature. Even if they are not typically 'good looking', wearing revealing clothing can lure more men. Whilst men are limited to status and ordinarily do not get many offers compared to those who have 'celebrity' status.

[edit on 8/3/07 by Flyboy211]

Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Now that i have a jerk attitude, it seems like women want me more, go figure.:shk:

I am not a complete jerk though, I just like busting their balls.

Uhh...Dude? You might want to have another look under the hood. Sounds like some kind of "Crying Game" thing going on there.

LOL! you know what I mean. :bnghd:

Originally posted by optimus fett
That said i suppose if you cant handle them lying you just need to get a chick that doesnt lie?

Those exist?!? Naaa no way, a woman that doesnt lie? thats an oxymoron.

Sorry doesnt happen. Women lie all the time, they cannot help it. It's just instinctual, especialy if you catch them at something bad. Then for the next few months you will hear (im not even joking about this 25 different versions of the same exact lie)

Women want honesty untill they come and ask you if this (insert article of clothing here) makes them look fat. THEY DO NOT WANT HONESTY HERE!!! I repeat THEY DO NOT WANT HONESTY HERE!!! Also they do not actualy want your opinion on anything. They want you to agree to whatever they are talking about they want your opinion to match exactly their opinion.

Also there is some ing atom width line between "you want it all the time i'm not a machine!" to "you never want to touch me!" Don't ask me where that line is my gods I have never found it.

I could go on and on but I won't

of course there is this disclaimer: (NONE OF THE WOMEN ON ATS ARE LIKE THE ABOVE DESCRIPTION. THEY ARE THE FEW WOMEN OUT THERE THAT ARE ABOVE ALL THOSE HANGUPS)



(hopefully that will keep me from being burned at the steak by the ladies here on ATS)