Why No Liquids On Airplanes Is Stupid

Originally posted by Valhall
WTF are they thinking!?!

There is a basic flawed assumption behind your question.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Valhall
WTF are they thinking!?!

There is a basic flawed assumption behind your question.

Sorry....I keep doing that. **

Originally posted by solidgear
& are we sure that threee components couldn't be placed in a container with release valves which would let them mix in a piece of luggage, therefore not requiring three individuals clubbing in the bathroom of a jet? I'm sure valve systems are well easy to put into practice?

And you don't think that would look supicious under x ray/screening?

well lets c, ihave no idea about what is required, as I stated i'm not a scientist or mcguiver, b ut consider 1 mixture in a babies bottle, & the second stored in the actual teet of the bottle which is attached? I don't know, but it al seems very lame that stopping us enjoy the liberty of a bottle of soda,etc in flight which we purchased at the airport or supermarket will stop these lunatics, whoever they are.

No, it is not stupid, but pretending that everything connected to terrorism is a gov plot is

I might be more inclined to buy into these ideas that it is all just a commercial plot by the airline and airport businesses if it weren't for the fact that these kinds of 'liquid bomb' attacks have been tried and carried out before.

However imperfect the new security procedures currently are it is simply undeniable that this has happened before; it is not just an invention for profit or the imaginings of a repressive government.

It should also be pointed out that when the UK introduced security measures in the early 1970's (the kind of checks and searches that became common-place after 9/11 - although a physical bag search was done back then instead of an x-ray) we had all the kinds of complaints and claims that it was ineffective, OTT and a trampling of our civil liberties.

.....but there was never a single plane lost to any terrorist act
(and the IRA did consider it, although according to writers today that would have been to a parked plane and not one full of passengers......but then again part of the weaponry they decommissioned was a few SAM7 missiles).

Neumann said the plot appeared similar to a 1995 plan to blow up 11 planes using nitroglycerine mixed in contact lens solution and a battery powered detonator.

go.reuters.co.uk

- Mr Ikegami certainly didn't think this was a contrived and imaginary plot.

On December 11, 1994, Yousef built another bomb, which had one tenth of the power that his final bombs were planned to have, in the lavatory of an aircraft. He left it inside the life jacket under his seat, 26K, and got off the plane when it arrived in Cebu. Yousef had boarded the flight under the assumed name of Armaldo Forlani, using a false Italian passport. The aircraft was Philippine Airlines Flight 434 on a Manila to Narita route, stopping partway at Cebu. Yousef had set the timer for four hours after he got off the aircraft. The bomb exploded while the aircraft was over Minami Daito Island, near Okinawa, Japan.
A Japanese businessman named Haruki Ikegami was killed after the bomb detonated.

en.wikipedia.org...

- I think people need to think about this stuff a little more clearly.

Just as with Britain in Ireland it could be fairly said that there was a 'dirty war' going on (conducted by both sides) and that the British government did not stand 'whiter than white' and one could chew over the rights and wrongs of how we had gotten where we were
there still really were people out there 'on the other side' willing to slaughter as many innocent civilians as they could in no-warning indiscriminate bombings.

It didn't happen all of the time but it certainly did happen many times.
That was our reality, it was no fantasy.

In trying to expel the British state from Northern Ireland there were those that really did see innocent and unconnected civilians as regrettable but nevertheless legitimate 'targets' in pursuit of their political goals.

Just as there really are terrorists from, or connected to, the ME who see our society as thoroughly corrupt, brutal, repressive to theirs and that in the process of destroying our society, or reducing it's grip or influence on what they see as theirs, we are all perhaps a regrettable but nevertheless, to them, totally 'legitimate target'.

You can extend the parallel to include our government's view (cos I see little difference when you bring in so-called 'collateral damage/death of innocents on 'the other side')
but
that still does not negate the fact regarding those who see you and your families as fair game in this struggle and who are out there determined to come after maybe you and yours.

The fact that there may be faults on both sides does not excuse or give anyone the 'right' to maim and slaughter me or mine or you or yours indiscriminately.
Put frankly, screw that insane 'logic'.

But there are people out there who disagree and they must be prevented from carrying out those acts.

That is the stark truth.

It appears some want to do anything possible to deny that and pretend that it is all just coming from our own government(s).

By way of 'solution' I can only hope that however long it takes we all end up, as happened in Ireland, finding sufficient people on all sides with the will and the ability to begin talking and working towards a stable and lasting peace.

I don't think that is possible just now (for us all on either side) when we are caught between the extremes.

'We' are caught between the extremes of one side that seems bent on a disastrous war with as much of the ME as possible (except Israel of course) and those who will refuse to believe anything that happens is anything less than a deliberate government plot against 'us'.......

......and 'they' in large part are caught between brutal and corrupt authoritarian leaderships 'we' get directly involved with and help prop up (to maintain something approaching stability in the oil/commodity markets even if they don't actually export directly to 'us') and 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' who blame every problem on 'us' in the 'west'.

It's a mess that will be a long time sorting out.


[edit on 12-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Oh wow, not again, those dang terrorists again trying every possible way to bring explosives on the plane. A shoe, a nail polish bottle, trying to use nail clippers as a stabbing weapon, etc.

Did anybody watch any drug cartel related movies? There are only about a hundred thousand of them set for every decade.

So the idea of MULES smuggling drugs INSIDE their bodily CAVITIES must be a big news to everybody.

Sure, we're all supposed to believe that a MacGyver style liquid mix of peroxide, acetone and other house hold chemicals will produce an explosion larger then a couple of pounds of Semtex stuffed up the rear end of some shahid.

So what's next? Industry wide cavity searches?

"Excuse me mam, you're looking rather suspicious with that head dress you got there, I'm required to examine your vaginal cavity for possible explosives..."

Or,

"Sir, yes you in a turban, please come here immediately, assume the position right by this machine, bend over and submit to an anal exploration executed with this mission specific probe by Ratheon industries."

Liquids, Ipods, please.

Originally posted by iskander

So what's next? Industry wide cavity searches?

Haha...I'm afraid so. Even worse, it may come to the point where they'll strip everyone of their dignity (no pun intended) and have airline passengers bare assed going thru the detectors, and THEN after that recieve a FULL cavity search. Sad thing is even the elderly and small children will have to comply because there are no exceptions! BENDOVA!!


[edit on 8/12/2006 by jeepin4x4girl]

[edit on 8/12/2006 by jeepin4x4girl]

I have a question.

Does anyone know of any material or substance that could be woven to form clothing and be explosive or be combined to become explosive?

If there is what then when there is a plot using such materials no clothes are allowed on planes?

This whole situation is absolutley absurd.

As I've said in another thread...

The simple solution is to just ban planes altogether.

Or, even better, stop pissing people off so they won't want to blow you up! I mean, if I go up to someone and don't want them to hit me/hate me guess what, I won't do something to make them mad! I won't go up to them and call their Mom a ho or something so they won't hit me.

But no, it is much more fun to invade countries based on lies, pissing millions off, then going "Oops, they might want to get back at us."

This is ridiculious. I ordered my plane tickets for california over a month ago and JUST as im about to leave (set to depart on the 14th) THIS happens. Not being allowed to have liquids on planes is such a huge inconvience. The fact that its not just liquids but also gels and creams makes things even worse. Dont get me wrong, im a big fan of being safe rather than sorry, but this is just getting irritating.

Are we really the best/strongest nation in the world? True, we can catch the terrorists at times, but are we really willing to give up our freedoms this easily? What other freedom is going to be taken away from us the next time someone decides to hijack a plane?




Who knows, maybe powdered water wont be so bad afterall?

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

Why No Liquids On Airplanes Is Stupid

Do you blame them???

LOL OOOHHH i so see now.

So the airlines no longer allow you to bring liquids. Much like a movie theater doesn't right? So that you will buy there $3.50 bottle of water? Air tickets going up, but so is oil and the Airline companies are going down hill fast. What better way to make a ittle extra profit eh? Not allowing any on board luggage might bring the weight of the craft down for better feul economy to eh? Hmmmmm interesting indeed.

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

funny how no one wants to blow up canadians.
i guess minding your own business has it's advantages.

Don't be so sure about the Canadian comment remember a few weeks ago the clowns they caught in Toronto?
I don't think we are that safe.

Did you here they are building the biggest mosk (muslim church) in north america in Calgary?
That might be a nice meeting place for some people!

Wonder what they plan to ban when they start surgically implanting bombs inside terrorists?

It will get to the point of the public airline industry collapses due to draconian laws and high fuel costs, then all that will be aloft is private charter aircraft for the uber-rich. Welcome to Orwell Airways...



U.S. Airline Shares Continue to Tumble AP

[edit on 12-8-2006 by Regenmacher]

Are we really the best/strongest nation in the world? True, we can catch the terrorists at times, but are we really willing to give up our freedoms this easily? What other freedom is going to be taken away from us the next time someone decides to hijack a plane?




Who knows, maybe powdered water wont be so bad afterall?

Im not giving up freedoms thier being taken from me, you dont ever see a politician going around asking how we would all feel if they changed this or that.

Originally posted by johnlear
I don't think you guys get it. Its an inside joke by the government. They have bets between themselves on just how stupid the American public is. And every time the public accepts something even more ridiculous more money changes hands, bets are made and they try again. Side bets are made on how many posters on ATS side with the government and helpfully explain why this latest outrage should be accepted.

Riiight...

and you know this how exactly?...

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by johnlear
I don't think you guys get it. Its an inside joke by the government. They have bets between themselves on just how stupid the American public is. And every time the public accepts something even more ridiculous more money changes hands, bets are made and they try again. Side bets are made on how many posters on ATS side with the government and helpfully explain why this latest outrage should be accepted.

Riiight...

and you know this how exactly?...

I'm not sure Mauddib, but I think JohnLear was indulging in a little lite hearted sarcasm.

Still the point he made is that the government can play any kneejerk reaction they can think of, wrapped around the "be a skeered" motif and the rabble will suck it up without any thought what so ever. Anyone for cheese?

i think the no liquid thing....is cause people are smart enough to know the world trade center was brought down with thermite. which can also be in liquid for. an THat would be very easy to get on a plane unnoticed.

Originally posted by DalairTheGreat
i think the no liquid thing....is cause people are smart enough to know the world trade center was brought down with thermite. which can also be in liquid for.

uhhhh....no it's not