What is the ultimate Concealed carry Gun?

Originally posted by DeusEx
if you can't handle a .357

Who here said they couldn't handle a .357?

Roper
Good point, compensated pistols are not ideal in low/no light conditions.


[edit on 8/21/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by redmage
While the “corner shot” is an interesting weapons system, this thread is about "concealed carry guns", not guns that allow the user to remain "concealed".

There's a big difference.

Rifles the size of the C.U.W.S. wouldn't qualify as being "on topic".

[edit on 8/18/06 by redmage]

Redmage


Thank you for acting as the thread POPO while i am not around. Thanks Again


E-

Smallpeeps...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
The nice thing about glock grips is that you can 'stipple' them or use a soldering iron to make a nice melted textured pattern on the grip and give more traction. The glock is the most durable, reliable gun ever made, hands down. I do agree with you about the thickness of the grip from a conceal perspective, but the pros far outweigh the cons. Also I think some old-tymers are really emotional about "American" guns and revolvers and stuff but I find most of these to have clunky edges and too many moving parts (ie thumb safeties, hammers). Nah, gimme the glock and I'm good.

I use an "A-Grip" on my Glock. Doesn't add any noticeable thickness to the grip and can be peeled off if needed. It works really well with sweaty hands. Like I said, my Glocks are my "goto" guns for when the SHTF, but I find the Colt conceals much better for everyday use. I've put 250 rounds (including various JHP rounds) through it in one session with no malfunctions at all. It's reliable enough for what I intended it for.


Redmage...

Originally posted by redmage
From a CC perspective, they also offer the slim-line Glock 36; a .45 with a 6 round "in-line" magazine.

It would seem to be a viable alternative to a revolver of the same caliber.

Personally, I'm a fan of the ideas behind their compensated line because (especially when it comes to light weight pistols) anything to lessen the "jump" and get your next shot back on target is a good thing.

I must say though, the SA XD seems to be giving Glock quite a "run for the money".

[edit on 8/21/06 by redmage]

The slimline Glock is not really that much thinner than regular Glocks. A lot of people do like them though; just didn't fit my hand very well. As far as the compensated models, they are also louder and I have read reports of people burning their clothing when practicing firing from the hip.

As far as the XD goes, I have three of the .45's (two service and one tactical). They are great guns, but they are a little bulky for concealed carry for me and the finish isn't as tough as the Glock's finish. You can send them off to SA for their armory-coat finish to fix that though. I would rate them right behind my Glocks as my "goto" guns.


DE...

Originally posted by DeusEx
Man, everyone is hatin' on wheelguns.
DE

Not me. I have nothing against revolvers at all. They are good, solid weapons. The Ruger Sp101 someone mentioned is well-regarded, and if someone is a little recoil-shy, they can use .38 special rounds instead of .357 magnum rounds. I just prefer semi-autos as a personal preference, nothing more.

I know a lot of people consider revolvers to be more reliable than semi's. I really don't buy that now-a-days. I've put 800 rounds though one of my Glocks in a single day without doing anything to it during the day. But I have seen Glocks jam, and I seen revolvers malfunction too. The key is buying a quality weapon and taking good care of it as far as cleaning and maintenance. Also, using high-quality ammo is a must.

[edit on 21-8-2006 by KillRaven]

[edit on 21-8-2006 by KillRaven]

Originally posted by KillRaven
I use an "A-Grip" on my Glock. Doesn't add any noticeable thickness to the grip and can be peeled off if needed. It works really well with sweaty hands. Like I said, my Glocks are my "goto" guns for when the SHTF, but I find the Colt conceals much better for everyday use.

Yes, the Colt is slimmer. Taran Butler, current USPSA 3-Gun National Champion, is the person who taught me to shoot and most of my gun thinking comes from his expertise. If you don't know who he is, you have not seen the fastest shooting human in America. Glocks and Infinity are all he uses. Why complicate things when my sensei tells me to use the simplest effective sword I can find?

Taran Butler: Best Shooter in America

I like the classics, don't get me wrong. Sounds like your setup will be effective in keeping you safe and of course the key is to become comfortable and automatic with whatever weapon you choose. The bottom line for me regarding small-guns is that the glock 27 cannot be beat. If a person wants more bullets, just stick a hi-cap mag in it and go for broke. The 27 with the long mag gives the gun a nice 'boomerang'-type of balance IMO.


[edit on 21-8-2006 by smallpeeps]

Smallpeeps...

I am very familiar with the Glock 27. In colder weather I carry my Glock 23 in a Bulman Gunleather IWB holster and a Glock 27 in a Lou Alessi ankle holster. I also carry a Surefire Z2 light and an extra mag for the Glock 23 (that will work in the 27 as well). It is my preferred setup when i can wear it. I also have a matching Glock 19/26 setup if I prefer to carry a 9mm instead of the .40 S&W.

But in the summer here, it is too hot for clothing that will conceal the above rig. I can wear the Colt in the same type of Bulman Gunleather holster with an IWB spare mag holder under a loose t-shirt and it just disappears.

There are two types of people (besides us gun-nuts) who look for guns on other people - criminals and cops. I don't know about the criminals, but I have worn my Colt setup around long-time veteran cops and they never knew anything until I showed them. But I have been "made" carrying the Glock once or twice.

I'm not arguing with you about how good Glocks are, if they weren't I wouldn't own eight of them (more than any other brand). But at least for me, the thinness of the Colt and its single-stack magazine just plain conceal better, and that's the topic of this thread isn't it?

There are other factors in concealing well. Such as - can someone smell the gun cleaner you use to clean your weapon with? I never thought about it until I was in a Wal-Mart one day and all of a sudden smelled Hoppes No. 9 solvent. Somebody was carrying, and while I didn't make them right away, their concealment had been blown. Same thing with the smell of gunleather.

Like I stated in my first post in this thread, I have made a transition over time through trial and error to come up with what works best for me. It doesn't mean another solution might not work better for you. I was just sharing my experience for the benefit of the person who started the thread.

I don't carry conclealed or openly, because it's illegal around here. But i've wondered how long does it take for a Magazine spring to "die" when the gun is used as 24/7 defence weapon and when it's constantly loaded?

If i had a choise to pick a carryon gun i'd be carrying a S&W .357Mag with a 3 inch barrel... *keeps on dreaming*

Originally posted by lakewoodrealtor

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
An MP5k on a short sling under your coat. That will bring some serious firepower to the table.

Yes it will but it is not a feaseable weapon you are not waging war just protecting ones self and personal effects

Lets keep it real here please.

Normally, I'd agree with you, old boy. But This time, I do feel you are ever so slightly out of date.

Whilst the H & K family of weapons are primarily designed for use by military or police units (and Hollywood), it does make an ideal conceal carry weapon.

As to your comment about NOT waging war, of course not. That is why the responsible person would purchase the low velocity or sub sonic rounds for the MP5K.

Yes it does represent an awesome amount of firepower, especially if you are a mugger or house breaker and your intended victim whips that from under his [or her] coat!

Originally posted by KillRaven
Like I stated in my first post in this thread, I have made a transition over time through trial and error to come up with what works best for me. It doesn't mean another solution might not work better for you. I was just sharing my experience for the benefit of the person who started the thread.

I cannot argue, and your posts above contain much good info. I don't carry although I've researched getting my CCW and could easily do that, but I just don't have the circumstances that recommend being armed. Life right now is pretty copacetic and I'm not really the type to carry a pistol day to day. In fact, my actual shooting experience is probably much inferior to people in this thread.

Like many conversations about guns, a lot of this has to do with personal preference. In the end, it's mostly about how prepared you are to use it.

I never thought about it until I was in a Wal-Mart one day and all of a sudden smelled Hoppes No. 9 solvent.

It makes an excellent air freshener, too!

Sort of on subject, those super-light revolvers have a failure mode that I wouldn't have believed until I saw it.

The frames are so light, that the impulse component of the recoil just isn't damped at all. On the range, I saw someone's jam...and it did so because the impulse had backed the bullets out of the cartridges on each shot. The next-to-last bullet finally protruded past the cylinder and hung.

Grant you, the ammo was range fodder grade, but still, it was surprising.

Care to tell who makes cylinders that loose?
Just so that we can avoid them, haven't heard that happening before...

YOur story about the bullets protruding from the brass and protruding from the cylinder made me think this guy was shooting reloads which had not been roll crimped up at the top where the bullets are seated.

When I first began reloading .38/357 I did not crimp. This was pointed out to me by a fellow shooter who did reload. From then on I adjusted my seating die to crimp when the bullet is sufficiently seated. THe .38/357 dies can be set up to load and seat both calibers. I have two sets of these dies and they are adjusted to seat and crimp ..one in .38 caliber and the other in .357. THis saves adjusting and re adjusting when switching to reloading the other caliber.

However ...some of the posters are correct about the recoil of these ultra light guns. I have shot a Smith Airweight in .38 caliber. The recoil for a standard .38 was horrible making a follow up shot difficult. THe gun was just to light. This gun belonged to the woman I am seeing and I taught her to shoot using it..and my heavier revolvers.
It was stolen from her car about a year ago. I replaced it with a five shot .357magnum revolver...with a 2inch barrel. It is loaded with .38 caliber rounds. This revolver being in .357 is not a ultralight. The recoil is more tolerable anb the gun more controlable.

I never did care for these short barrelled guns. I call them belly guns, but this .357 Tarus can shoot well and has decent groups for such a short barrel. I was surprised by this. I dont like to carry a gun shorter than a 4 inch barrel. Just my preference.

And some of the posters are correct..summertime makes concealed carry more difficult. Winter time no problem.

Though I clean with Hopps #9 solvent when I finish I put a light coat of a silicone based grease on my guns as a moisture barrier. A very light thin coat. It doesnt take much. If you can smell that much Hopps #9 they must be bathing thier guns in it. Must be one of those setups where you dunk your gun into a bucket of that stuff when cleaning.

Thanks for some great posts folks,
Orangetom

Northwolf...

Originally posted by northwolf
But i've wondered how long does it take for a Magazine spring to "die" when the gun is used as 24/7 defence weapon and when it's constantly loaded?

This is a subject of constant debate, but the truth is it is the repeated compression and decompression of the spring that over time causes it to weaken. I've never had a magazine spring go bad in eight years, and I've left some AR-15 mags fully loaded for almost two years straight with no problems. Just like a weapon though, magazines should be cleaned and the springs very lightly oiled at intervals (IIRC, Glock recommends cleaning theirs every 500 rounds).


Fritz...

Originally posted by fritz
Normally, I'd agree with you, old boy. But This time, I do feel you are ever so slightly out of date.

Whilst the H & K family of weapons are primarily designed for use by military or police units (and Hollywood), it does make an ideal conceal carry weapon.

As to your comment about NOT waging war, of course not. That is why the responsible person would purchase the low velocity or sub sonic rounds for the MP5K.

Yes it does represent an awesome amount of firepower, especially if you are a mugger or house breaker and your intended victim whips that from under his [or her] coat!

I agree with you that the HK would be a great concealed carry piece if you can afford one (about $15,000) and if you can find one. But be warned that when you flip that thing to full auto and start pumping off rounds, a legal tsunami will soon engulf you (and not in a good way). Every round you fire has a potential lawyer attached to it, and you will have a an extremely difficult time convincing a jury that you acted like any other reasonable person would have in the same situation. BTW, HK has announced they are ceasing production of the MP5 series, replacing it with the UMP series instead.

Smallpeeps...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I cannot argue, and your posts above contain much good info.

I don't carry although I've researched getting my CCW and could easily do that, but I just don't have the circumstances that recommend being armed. Life right now is pretty copacetic and I'm not really the type to carry a pistol day to day. In fact, my actual shooting experience is probably much inferior to people in this thread.

Like many conversations about guns, a lot of this has to do with personal preference. In the end, it's mostly about how prepared you are to use it.

Thank you for the compliment very much! You definately should get your carry permit; you never know when circumstances might make you glad you did. As far as you feeling that you don't really need to carry, I have a little true story for you...

A man who was training for his permit had stated he only intended to carry when he went to a nearby city. The instructors told him that if he felt he should carry only there, then maybe he should avoid going there in the first place (first rule - always try to avoid putting yourself in a potential lethal-force situation). They warned him that he should always carry as much as legally possible, because trouble can happen anywhere at anytime (second rule). He ignored this advice and a short time later had taken his wife and daughter out boating one day. As he pulled back into the dock, he noticed his elderly next door neighbor standing there with a gun in his hand. The alarm bells should have sounded (third rule - learn to recognize a potential threat), but instead he got out of the boat and started over to talk to him. The elderly man started yelling how this guy had shot his dog, and even though the guy hadn't, and attempted to plead with him as to his innocence, the elderly man shot and wounded the guy, then walked right up to him and finished him off at point blank range.

'I agree with you that the HK would be a great concealed carry piece if you can afford one (about $15,000) and if you can find one. But be warned that when you flip that thing to full auto and start pumping off rounds, a legal tsunami will soon engulf you (and not in a good way). Every round you fire has a potential lawyer attached to it, and you will have a an extremely difficult time convincing a jury that you acted like any other reasonable person would have in the same situation. BTW, HK has announced they are ceasing production of the MP5 series, replacing it with the UMP series instead'.

Killraven, I do believe that you can get 2nd hand wpns far cheaper than that and I also think I'm right in saying that H&K make them in semi-auto for the civvie market.

[edit on 23-8-2006 by fritz]

why would you want to know this? i find it a little strange. like your getting help to do some damage or worse...

Originally posted by fritz
Killraven, I do believe that you can get 2nd hand wpns far cheaper than that and I also think I'm right in saying that H&K make them in semi-auto for the civvie market.

Not in this country, Fritz. Since the law was passed here in 1986 preventing any machineguns from being purchased by us lowly civilians after 1986 manufacture, the supply has gone down while the price has only gone [way, way] up. Also, I double-checked H&K's website and saw no mention of a semi version of the MP5K for civilians. If you know of such for here in the U.S., please let me know - I will be the first in line for a "new toy". But I still wouldn't carry it as a self-defense weapon; any jury in this country would have a field day with you in court if you ever used it. As John Wayne said in one of his classic movies - "Too much gun".

I´d say that an MP5K would simply be too cumbersome to carry. Just think about trying to pull this gun with protruding magazine, front grip, cocking lever AND iron sights out from under your jacket...

Originally posted by orangetom1999
YOur story about the bullets protruding from the brass and protruding from the cylinder made me think this guy was shooting reloads which had not been roll crimped up at the top where the bullets are seated...

Yeah, like I said these were bulk reloads from a local company, that they sold at the range for pistol practice. But I've never seen them do that with anything but those S&W Airlights.

Walked it right out, far enough to hang the cylinder.

Originally posted by Lonestar24
I´d say that an MP5K would simply be too cumbersome to carry. Just think about trying to pull this gun with protruding magazine, front grip, cocking lever AND iron sights out from under your jacket...

It's so easy, if you have the correct rig. It's a cross between a shoulder and belt holster, with the muzzle end being attached to the trouser [pants] belt and is of the 'snap open' design - by that I mean the MP5K is pulled free through the front of the rig and not drawn in the conventional way.

Sorry that such a fine weapon is not readily available for you guys in the States
........................................................No wait...............................................

That's such a blatant lie You've got far too much to play with as it is!

That's such a blatant lie You've got far too much to play with as it is!

Har! Suffer, yer Limey barstid!



Behold the floor of my workshop during a cleaning session I had last year, and despair.

Some of my favorite nonconcealable weapons!

Tom...
I bet all the tanks in your area pee themselves and run when you pull those babies out...

I'd love to have a Barrett M82A1, but I would go broke feeding it.


Fritz...

If you can get a semi MP5K in England, I am utterly in shock. I thought the gov was even banning knives from you folks now...