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The interesting discovery of the name Abi-ramu (Abram?) on Babylonian contracts of about 2000 BC/BCE does not prove the Abraham of the Old Testament to be an historical person, even as the fact that there were Amorites in Babylonia at the same period does not make it certain that the 'patriarch' was one of their number (if he existed altogether).
Several scholars claim, on the basis of archaeological and philological evidence, that many stories in the Old Testament, including the accounts about Abraham, Moses, and others, were actually made up by scribes under King Josiah (7th century BC/BCE) in order to provide a historical framework for the monotheistic belief in Yahweh. Such scholars claim that the archives of neighbouring countries that kept written records, such as Egypt, Assyria, etc., show no trace of the stories of the Bible or its main characters before 650 BC/BCE. Such claims are detailed in "Who Were the Early Israelites?" by William G. Dever, (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 2003). Another similar book by Neil A. Silberman and Israel Finkelstein is "The Bible Unearthed," (Simon and Schuster, New York, 2001).
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Strange that so many cultures have knowledge of a world wide flood isn't it. These so called scholars are spreading crock, are you buying? The early books of the Bible can be traced to Moses as can the historical Exodus.
Originally posted by Osbert
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Strange that so many cultures have knowledge of a world wide flood isn't it. These so called scholars are spreading crock, are you buying? The early books of the Bible can be traced to Moses as can the historical Exodus.
There is no universal flood reaching Egiptian mythology, only the Nile floods.
The story of Moses is interpreted differently by many religions: Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon and each one of them believes their version to be correct.
There are also speculations that he was the priest of the pharaoh Akhenaten and brought monotheism to the Jews.
Which Moses do you mean?
The story of Jesus is all over the world in different forms long before he ever showed up. Does that mean Jesus did not live and do the things he did? Not hardly. It merely means that there is a Satan and he is hard at work. Why do you see the snake as one of the Egyptians symbols? What's that all about?
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The story of Jesus is all over the world in different forms long before he ever showed up. Does that mean Jesus did not live and do the things he did? Not hardly. It merely means that there is a Satan and he is hard at work. Why do you see the snake as one of the Egyptians symbols? What's that all about?
Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
This really isn't going anywhere is it? Nothing is going to shake the faith of those with faith, after all, isn't that what faith is all about. It doesn't make any difference that faith can be misplaced, or even just plain wrong....
The Catholic Church did elevate this abuse to new heights until in the early 1300’s when an actual scholar namely, John Whycliffe, shot them in the sit-down with the first translation of the bible in more than 1000 years with his translation of the Latin New Testament into English. The crime here, in the view of the “Universal Church” was that this crime allowed the true believer behind the plow to read for himself the same text he had theretofore gotten by interpretation from the local priest. Until then the Catholics could tell true believers any damned thing they wished and the faithful had no choice but to either believe or educate themselves.
Originally posted by Osbert
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The story of Jesus is all over the world in different forms long before he ever showed up. Does that mean Jesus did not live and do the things he did? Not hardly. It merely means that there is a Satan and he is hard at work. Why do you see the snake as one of the Egyptians symbols? What's that all about?
The story of Jesus is copied from the story of Horus, monotheism is from Akhenaten, the serpent is knowledge, wisdom and rebirth (In Europe most chemists shops still have a symbolic serpent as a logo)
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The life of Jesus is real, it is not copied from Horus. God knows Satan is going to send his Son and he creates his own story in Babylon. The Story of Horus is copied from Tammuz in Babylon.
I'll tell you again, you need to do some research and quit believing the crock you are fed.
Originally posted by ArbitraryGuy
Very interesting thread.
I believe that Zoroastrianism (the religion of Ancient Persia) has had perhaps the greatest influence on Western Religion, especially Judaism and Christianity. Here are a few ideas of Western religions heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism (or, one could argue, some coincidences and similarities):
- Dualism of Good vs. Evil. "God" versus "Satan".
- Ultimate triumph of the forces of good (Millennialism)
- Concepts of Heaven & Hell
- Individual Judgment
- Hierarchy of Angles and Demons
- Savior/Deliverer to come in the future
- Resurrection in the future
- Prophets getting revelation from god on mountain-tops
Here's a good link about how Zoroastrianism could have influenced Judaism, and subsequently Christianity. The links at the bottom of that page have for and against arguments for such an assertion, as well as a more in-depth discussion of similarities between Zoroastrianism and later religions. All are very interesting reads.
The Story of Horus is copied from Tammuz in Babylon.
Originally posted by Osbert
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The life of Jesus is real, it is not copied from Horus. God knows Satan is going to send his Son and he creates his own story in Babylon. The Story of Horus is copied from Tammuz in Babylon.
I'll tell you again, you need to do some research and quit believing the crock you are fed.
Here's some similarities, please remember that Horus was God centuries before Jesus.
1. Both were conceived of a virgin.
2. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
8. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
10. Both births were announced by angels (this is not the same as number 7).
11. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
12. Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
13. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
14. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
15. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where his eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
16. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
17. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
18. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
19. Both were baptized at age 30.
20. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
21. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
22. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
23. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
24. Both have 12 disciples.
25. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
26. Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
27. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
28. Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
29. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
30. Both were crucified.
31. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
32. Both were buried in a tomb.
33. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
34. Both had their resurrection announced by women.
35. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
36. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
37. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
38. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
39. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
40. Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
41. "The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'" (See Point 13)
42. Both were transfigured on the mount.
43. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
44. Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
45. Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
46. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).
please remember that Horus was God centuries before Jesus
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
The Story of Horus is copied from Tammuz in Babylon.
OK Sun Matrix - you have officially lost all credibility! Kemetic (i.e. Egyptian) Mythology DEFINITELY Pre-Dates the Babylonian! Were the Israelites not first held Captive by the Egyptians & then later enslaved by the Babylonians. So it is more like the opposite way around.
Wow Sun Matrix. Osbert just blew you out of the water with that last post! You should put your Bible down & actually start doing some legitimate re-search if you want anyone here on ATS to take you seriously at all Sun Matrix!
[edit on 17-8-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]
Originally posted by Osbert
Originally posted by ArbitraryGuy
Very interesting thread.
I believe that Zoroastrianism (the religion of Ancient Persia) has had perhaps the greatest influence on Western Religion, especially Judaism and Christianity. Here are a few ideas of Western religions heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism (or, one could argue, some coincidences and similarities):
- Dualism of Good vs. Evil. "God" versus "Satan".
- Ultimate triumph of the forces of good (Millennialism)
- Concepts of Heaven & Hell
- Individual Judgment
- Hierarchy of Angles and Demons
- Savior/Deliverer to come in the future
- Resurrection in the future
- Prophets getting revelation from god on mountain-tops
Here's a good link about how Zoroastrianism could have influenced Judaism, and subsequently Christianity. The links at the bottom of that page have for and against arguments for such an assertion, as well as a more in-depth discussion of similarities between Zoroastrianism and later religions. All are very interesting reads.
That was an interesting read... However the Prophet Zarathustra lived in 600 BC and the Bible was supposed to have been written around 800/900 BC but there are similarities.
Slightly off topic, did you know that the ex leader of the band " Queen" Freddy Mercury [G.R.H.S.] was of the Zoroastrian faith?
Originally posted by Osbert
That was an interesting read... However the Prophet Zarathustra lived in 600 BC and the Bible was supposed to have been written around 800/900 BC but there are similarities.
Originally posted by Osbert
1. Both were conceived of a virgin.
2. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
8. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
10. Both births were announced by angels (this is not the same as number 7).
11. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
12. Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
13. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
15. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where his eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
16. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
17. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
18. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
19. Both were baptized at age 30.
20. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
21. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
22. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
24. Both have 12 disciples.
25. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.26. Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
27. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.
29. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
30. Both were crucified.
31. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
32. Both were buried in a tomb.
33. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
35. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
36. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
37. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
38. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
39. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
40. Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
41. "The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'" (See Point 13)
42. Both were transfigured on the mount.
43. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
45. Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
46. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).