Death to Everyone!

Originally posted by Roper
Ya'll might take a look at this.

www.news.com.au...

Roper

What's your point?

Those pictures don't prove Hezbollah launches missiles into Israel from residential areas. The truck you see is AA.

Remember Hezbollah isn't a professional army? spending money on clothing when you can rather use it for weapons?

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Hezbollah hides among the civilian population after having launched missiles.

Originally posted by laiguana
There is no denying that murder takes place in this country everyday, my point is that terrorism fueled by the Islamic religion is a wide-spread problem.

You see, when it's a suicide attack using a few pounds of plastic explosive, it falls into the category of terrorism. If it's an air assault with some kind of advanced munition, it falls into the category of war.

What do you call the wholesale destruction of Lebanon by Israel? The village of Qana was struck 80 times, count them 80. I'm not even remotely trying to justify what Hizbullah does, just pointing out that there is already a built-in flaw in your logic when it comes to sorting out terrorist from non-terrorists.

Well, I don't doubt Hezbollah is deploying from residential areas.
That's pretty clear from Israeli gun camera footage and even some news footage.

On the other hand, I suspect that's not where they're hiding stuff, generally.

Let's put it this way - if the Israeli's are really hitting Hezbollah ammo dumps and not civilian homes, where are all these rockets coming from? And where are all the secondary explosions you'd expect if they were hitting rockets full of solid fuel and explosives, which tend not to react well to 500lb bombs blowing up next to them? Instead we see a pattern of a single home blown up, a single family killed. And the occasional mass horror like Qana.

Either Israel's mission planners are just guessing, and missing most of the time, or they're being fed bad intel from someone who wants to see them caught massacring scads of helpless civilans with "precision" weaponry. Preferably very photogenically with lots of dusty, bloodied little kid's bodies cradled in the arms of their daed mothers.

[edit on 7/31/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
Either Israel's mission planners are just guessing, and missing most of the time, or they're being fed bad intel from someone who wants to see them caught dropping HE on helpless civilans, preferably very photogenically with lots of dusty, bloodied little kid's bodies.

No, Israel's mission planners are top notch professionals. They are apparently very sucessful at their mission to depopulate south Lebanon. Scorched ground tactics is nothing new.

My point Mdv2 is the Hizbullah are a group of cowards hiding among the citizen.

These photos are of war machines and if a pilot see them they will take it out no matter where it is. Also these so called warriors bodies will be counted as civilian.


Roper

Originally posted by xmotex
And where are all the secondary explosions you'd expect if they were hitting rockets full of solid fuel and explosives, which tend not to react well to 500lb bombs blowing up next to them?

That's a good point. Could it be that the succesful strikes to caches are either not being filmed or released? Just like we're not getting video and photos of all the civilians in Lebanon...

Originally posted by Roper
My point Mdv2 is the Hizbullah are a group of cowards hiding among the citizen.

These photos are of war machines and if a pilot see them they will take it out no matter where it is. Also these so called warriors bodies will be counted as civilian.


Roper

I see where you coming from, but I personally wouldn't define it as cowardly.
The fact is that Hezbollah doesnt have weapons Israel does, it doesn't have powerful fighter jets.

What do you expect them, to sit down in an open field with a big white sheet, written on it: ''here I am, please bomb me away''...

Doesn't make sense. And yes, the civilians are those who suffer again. I don't say I agree with this way of operating, but they have little choice, whereas Israel does have choice.

The could fight Hezbollah solely on the ground, but that's not what Israel wants as strength would be equal. ''Fight on the ground, like men''

They are apparently very sucessful at their mission to depopulate south Lebanon.

That's the possibility that really scares the hell out of me.
Because if Israel is really just making a land grab, the idiots currently running the US .gov are going to back them up anyway. And the rest of us are going to pay for it sooner or later.

Could it be that the succesful strikes to caches are either not being filmed or released?

Why wouldn't the Israelis want to show the world evidence that they're really stomping Hezbollah, instead of just ordinary civilians?

Just like we're not getting video and photos of all the civilians in Lebanon...

Well I don't know what the hell you're reading and watching, but I've seen enough gory pictures of dead Lebanese kids being dragged out of wreckage over the last couple of weeks to kill my appetite for the least a few months. I call it the IDF Diet.

Well, how come the village of Qana was rased with many inhabitants (including children) killed? Did the Israeli pilot see "war machines" as you put it, in every single house?

Originally posted by Mdv2
I find it very remarkable that no one wants to reply on my ''question'' how you personally would act if your country or neighborhood would be occupied in this case, by Zionists.

Me I would take up my swords and fight till my last breath. But I have made this point many times... I don't get an answer either

But then...once upon a time... long ago... we took this land from the indiginous people too. So is it hypocritical to say now we will defend this land with our life?

Originally posted by Mdv2

I see where you coming from, but I personally wouldn't define it as cowardly.
The fact is that Hezbollah doesnt have weapons Israel does, it doesn't have powerful fighter jets.

I'm with you on this one. For a group that is technologically outmatched, victory is not synonomous with avoiding civilian casualties. Civilian deaths are as much a tool of war as the deaths of military personel. Its just that it is a psychological weapon, and has proven to be very effective throughout the past decades. Hez doesn't have to defeat the IDF, just outlast them. If the can do that, their ranks will swell, plus have gained a position to bargain from. That's why I don't think Israel will stop until they are destroyed.

I think these guys are being allowed a lot of latitude in their targeting, and that some of them "see" the enemy everywhere they see Arabs.

By the way, if anyone here feels they haven't seen enough horror inflicted on Lebanese civilians to convince them, look here for a good look at Qana.

Originally posted by Mdv2
The could fight Hezbollah solely on the ground, but that's not what Israel wants as strength would be equal. ''Fight on the ground, like men''

Well that would mean Isreal would have to march into Lebanon full force with an invading occupying army and search house to house to find the Hezzbola fighters. I am quite sure this would not be a very welcome situation and I am also sure that they would not be wearing a patch thats says "I am a Hezzbola.." so how would you identify them "on the ground" I suppose Lebanese citizens would point them out and say "Theres one!"?

Originally posted by xmotex

Why wouldn't the Israelis want to show the world evidence that they're really stomping Hezbollah, instead of just ordinary civilians?

The same reason the US doesn't broadcast its most succesful missions. There is alway intelligence to be gained by the other side, since most likely the filming would be done by surveillance aircraft.

Well I don't know what the hell you're reading and watching, but I've seen enough gory pictures of dead Lebanese kids being dragged out of wreckage over the last couple of weeks to kill my appetite for the least a few months. I call it the IDF Diet.

I said all. I've seen plenty of casualties, but not nearly as many as have been reported. There just isn't media in place to record it all because Hezzbollah wasn't allowing reporters to wander at will. Of course they would try to race the reporters to the scene, but they aren't nearby because the media would also get the footage of Hez operating in the neighborhoods.

Also, when this first started, before the casualties really mounted, I noticed that people were carrying a lot of clean and unblooded "casualties" around a block and throwing them into vans and ambulances.

Originally posted by zorgon
"I am a Hezzbola.." so how would you identify them "on the ground" I suppose Lebanese citizens would point them out and say "Theres one!"?

You are not too far off on that. actually yes. There are a lot of Lebanese former SLA members Living in Israel that ran away after slaughtering all the muslims and palistinians, and they are feeding a lot of Intel to the Israelis. Im sure that a lot of them have slithered into Lebanon. They want to see the Muslims and not just the Hizbollah taken out. They are having lots of help from Lebanese inside Lebanon telling them where people are.

That's why I don't think Israel will stop until they are destroyed.

And the fact is, Israel can't destroy them without killing ten civilians for every Hezbollah member they get. Realistically, there is no way the Israelis can "destroy" them without mostly depopulating Southern Lebanon. Which would be a war crime of epic proportions.

Also, when this first started, before the casualties really mounted, I noticed that people were carrying a lot of clean and unblooded "casualties" around a block and throwing them into vans and ambulances.

That's not inconsistent with deaths from concussion though, I don't think I would read too much into that. People can look almost normal externally, and have massive internal injuries.

Originally posted by xmotex
That's not inconsistent with deaths from concussion though, I don't think I would read too much into that. People can look almost normal externally, and have massive internal injuries.

I know about concussion, but there was no dust on them anywhere, which you would find even if they had been laying in the street. No fluids from eyes, nose, or ears. Just seemed very suspicious. "Baby Milk Factory" suspicious. Of course, its irrelivant now.

Originally posted by makeitso
So yes, there is a problem with Muslim violence. Yes it appears to be a small percent of Muslims. Yes, that percent is actually a huge number. Yes, it is mostly Muslim terrorism currently. Yes, somebody is pulling the strings, teaching them from a young age to accept and commit violent acts in the name of religion.

Of course, I have limited time for research. These are just a couple of surveys, and they are not from the ME. I'm sure that other views will be raised, and those views help all of us understand each other, and the world. No?

Well yes, heres a thought - you only have to look at the number of posters on ATS who call for - and glorify - violence against other people they have no real knowledge of to understand that the problem of violence is not unique to the Muslim faith.

I meant that they're a few simply because if you take your Al Qaeda groups and your other groups, combine them together, you have nothing but a tiny bunch wanting to do us harm (according to Bush)- Now figure there are Billions upon billions of Muslims- They exist in every country, every part of the world and come in all colors. I could easily turn Muslim tomorrow. "Muslim" or "Islam" is a religion, so they're everywhere.

IF EVERY MUSLIM was out to get us, you'd know it, trust me, you'd have no place to go, no place to hide, and no ammount of HOMELAND SECURITY would be able to keep them at bay.

So, bs to the fact that "Muslims" are out to get us, imo.

The main groups out to get us are questionable, to begin with

9/11 was not an outside job, imo. So its pretty hard to convince me of anything past that.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
We simply can't be so politically correct that we ignore the plain truth in front of us. Radical Islam is a major problem worldwide. 9/11, the attack in Spain, the attack in London, the attack in India... I've said many times, not all Musliims are terrorists! But with a billion out there even if 0.5% are, you've still got a major problem. Is knowing that 500,000 people want to kill you really that much more comforting than thinking a billion do?

Oh, yes, those fire breathing, 20 inch fanged A-rabs/Muslims/jihadis want to kill us all. Look at the proof...

9/11 - if you ignore the fact that the US govt's fingerprints are all over this (let's not forget coincidental, simultaneous war games mirroring the attacks), you will see it was Muslims.

7/7 - if you ignore the fact that the British govt's fingerprints are all over this (once again, simultaneous drills mirroring the attacks), it was Muslims.

Madrid bombings - if you ignore the fact the Spanish govt found no links to Muslims, yet had fishy links to their own govt, it was Muslims.

Oh, yeah, it's a lot easier to believe Muslims are gonna kill us all. Even when your own govt has REPEATEDLY killed your fellow citizens (1968 NY subway, Army spraying, etc)...