Cell phones work on planes!!!

While I don't always subscribe to ANOKs point of view, attacking him in the way that you have, Bob, is pretty poor form. This thread was going well. Everyone was courteous, and made well reasoned points. And then a counterpoint gets introduced, and courtesy and manners go out the window. An all too regular event these days. Just because you don't understand anothers point of view doesn't make it any less valid, or make them any stupider, than yourself. Seriously people, if it makes you that upset to be challenged, perhaps it's time to take a break from ATS.

While this does seem to make me think they can work.I agree we will never relly know.Untill someone gets in the same place at the same speeds,we can only ponder.I do remember using my phone years ago,like 2000,on planes .I don't recall when in flight I did it,think it was around landing time.I know I saw flight attendants back then do it.Again no real rec of what part of the flight.So they have worked way more than a few times just that I am aware.I think the rest of you help show I aint the only one.Thanks!

Originally posted by Duhh
BsB,it's funny you didn't quote the last part of my statement.You know the part about you being no one to JUDGE how some one should behave.

Maybe that's because I've actually taken college-level psychology courses and have read up quite a bit on the psychology of lying in particular.

Psychology is a science just like all the rest, though maybe you have to actually be familiar with the material to realize that (and this applies to Swampfox's remarks as well). And I would appreciate it if you wouldn't make assumptions about what I do or do not know.

I'm not suggesting that all of the calls were fake, and certainly not that they would have been impossible to make. I just don't think all of them were genuine. Specifically, Mark Bingham's call, I'm not so sure was genuine. I don't think Todd Beamer's call was genuine, either. I think Flight 93 was turned into a stunt to rouse patriotism at the end of an extremely traumatizing set of events. This includes a few artificial calls home to bring to the major media, to then sell to the public.

I remember hearing of one call, the last call from Flight 93 actually, that reported an explosion on the plane and smoke. This, amongst other calls from the flights, I have no reason to believe was faked. The AP (reported Todd Spangler) reported this particular call on September 12, 2001 (here is a cache of an online version of the article, provided by Jim Hoffman's website), taken by Glenn Cramer in Westmoreland County.

But calls like Beamer's, with the "Let's roll" crap that Bush and other officials quickly (and unsuccessfully) tried to turn into a national slogan, I think was just for propaganda pruposes. The Flight 93 movie is a one big illustration of this.

America's under attack, but then in the end, a hijacked flight is overtaken by a heroic crew of Americans, just awakened into this Brave New World. And then it crashes into the ground. And creates an 8-mile long stretch of debris. But a single, relatively small crater. With one engine landing hundreds of feet away. Yeah. And nearby residents, and even the mayor, suggesting the appearance of at least one other plane, military, in the region.

But anyway, to set 93 up as a patriotic stunt, there has to be patriotic material, or evidence of some patriotic actions to present to the masses. This is where some, not all, of the calls come in. I just don't think they were all genuine.

Some of the calls?Talk about pysco bable.I took some psyc at the big C as well.Parents, and alot of their friends are PHD Psych.Big deal.There is nothing more dangerous than a half informed shrink!! I like that psychiatry is the new CT tool!!! O' the irony!The phonecalls were real,NEXT!

There was actually very good research done on this issue awhile back, i forget if it was here or elsewhere.
From what i remember this guy did all kinds of tests, in the end i THINK it was determined by the MODEL of phone, but more importantly, the height the plane was at.

I travel frequently between the UK and Spain by air and have, on occasions, accidentally left my mobile switched on in my hand luggage.

Invariably upon landing I discover the welcome message, received whilst flying over France at 37000 feet, from French service providers. So clearly my mobiles work in the air.

Thank you Duhh for your good work in this thread! Some people are rather foolish. I was beginning to believe that some of those phone calls might have been disingenuous but thankfully your posts have shed a great deal of enlightenment on the subject for me. Thank you for your intelligent posts that show all these conspiracy theorists how wrong they truly are. Some will never give up, but don’t be discouraged, it is impossible to argue with an idiot.

lets look back shall we. everyone of these so called terrorists were trained by the cia.this is an undisputed fact.to repeat an old axiom of my fathers "you # in your bed ,now you can lie in it". this is why the majority of the world no longer gives a #, or believes anything your "guvmint" says including 47% or so of your own populace.as far as phones working on airplanes, i used a piece of # fido type phone(not a fido, can't remember the make, just a comparison) on the plane as early as "99. no adverse affects aside from some choppy reception, which was not unusual as it did the same on the ground.it has nothing to do with the avionics. anyone who tries to state that a cell phone could bring down an airplane by merely being activated is an idiot pure and simple.i imagine it has more to do with some idiotic security measure that has no basis in reality(as most of them do, i.e. not allowing nail clippers. i was allowed to carry my housekeys, which with my skills, i could easily take out a 250 lb man,nail clippers, not as easy) rather than anything practical. and for the record no one adresses themselves in their full names to their mother unless they a. haven't spoken to them in years b.aren't who they are pretending to be c. either of the latter.not saying 93 didn't happen. but the whole let's roll scenerio...unbloody likely.

Originally posted by Duhh
WOW guys,thst was quick! MYTH BUSTED.Unless someone has any cool info on why they were not supposed to!DR JONES??KB?DA? HA HA HA!! THEY WORK[ Said like Dave C. Says... I'm Rich *&%$]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not think anyone here has recently argued this point. Certainly not Dr. Jones. You will find no reference to this on ST911.ORG FOR A REASON. It is a straw man or bad science. You are not the first to discover this, and though you feel really smart right now with your Chapelle quote... This is OLD news. Most people wrote off that "test" long ago.

Anyway, you are aware that it would be VERY possible to fake phone calls? Have you ever heard of phone cloning? I suggest you look it up if you think you just made some major discovery. Cells use routed packet data... VERY easily faked even without the cloning. NOW, since we know the phone companies are in the NSA's pocket from recent events... How hard would it be? One guy, one PC with proper access.

Why not answer to my WTC Solicitation thread? A REAL issue.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Duhh
I took some psyc at the big C as well.

Yet you still do not understand that a PERIOD (.) is followed by TWO SPACES so that others can understand your babbling?

I doubt you went to college if you cannot even follow some very basic grammatical rules.

I am guesssing you are about 15.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

When was the last time a plane fell out of the sky or exploded,because of a cell phone?I dont know why the airlines or who ever is in charge of these laws look at the record on plane crahes.Theres more of a risk of the plane exploding from a fuel tank defect that exists, then from some one using a cell phone on a plane.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by icyblue]

There is nothing more funny, than to listen to CTers add to paranoid delusions.This is about the fact,cellphones work.Not impossible!Once that is established,they begin playing psychotherapist.There were stange moments in people phone calls,as if they can even understand this.Not understand,but go on to decide that is all the more reason the calls were faked.LOL! It is another key to the madness of their psychosis.They quote this nonesense again,and again,thinking if said enough it will be true.Well it is not.My favorite is how if not all the calls were faked,then some of them are too strange to have really happened.Great psychology there!Ha!
Their final fall back position is voice morph.Which contradicts their sad idea about the "strange" calls.If it was morph,why act so strange as to call attention to it?There would be no reason.It all holds to geather like a wet napkin!No real understanding of how trying situations manifest themselves in the human mind.I hope someday they find peace within their psychotic episodes.I hear Stelazine can be quite helpful insuch cases!THE PHONES WORK! GET OVER IT!!!

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Duhh]

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Anyway, you are aware that it would be VERY possible to fake phone calls? Have you ever heard of phone cloning? I suggest you look it up if you think you just made some major discovery. Cells use routed packet data... VERY easily faked even without the cloning. NOW, since we know the phone companies are in the NSA's pocket from recent events... How hard would it be? One guy, one PC with proper access.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

In the 7 years ( on and off ) i have worked in the mobile telecoms industry i have never heard of a cloned digital mobile phone, never.
With the old analogue system yes clone phones where a problem, but since moving to digital the problem of cloned phones no longer exists. You are suggesting that a hacker in his bedroom with an internet connection could clone a encypted digital signal and use it for himself. Well if that were true then we would have a rash of news reports about cloned digital cell phones, and i for one have never seen one, either in the main steam news or in any industry publication.
Could the intelligence guys do it? who knows? But i would be interested in seeing any varifiable report that a digital mobile phone has ever been cloned by Joe Blow in his bedroom with a PC and internet connection.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Janus]

Originally posted by icyblue
When was the last time a plane fell out of the sky or exploded,because of a cell phone?

LX 498 Crossair crash

Slovenian emergency landing

Originally posted by Janus

In the 7 years ( on and off ) i have worked in the mobile telecoms industry i have never heard of a cloned digital mobile phone, never.
With the old analogue system yes clone phones where a problem, but since moving to digital the problem of cloned phones no longer exists. You are suggesting that a hacker in his bedroom with an internet connection could clone a encypted digital signal and use it for himself.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Janus]

No. I am suggesting that SIM card data can be obtained and copied. I am also suggesting that once the packet data is passing through routers, etc, it would be easy for someone with access to these devices to fake calls. I am not aware that GSM packet data is encrypted by default. Is it? Since we are aware of the gov't projects involving the backbone carriers is this really very hard to believe? Assuming you have a clue about packet routing, etc.


[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

No. I am suggesting that SIM card data can be obtained and copied. I am also suggesting that once the packet data is passing through routers, etc, it would be easy for someone with access to these devices to fake calls. I am not aware that GSM packet data is encrypted by default. Is it? Since we are aware of the gov't projects involving the backbone carriers is this really very hard to believe? Assuming you have a clue about packet routing, etc.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

It is encypted in the UK, cant say for other countries, but in the UK we encrypt the packet data, also we have safeguards that will not allow two sims with the same mobile number to exist on the network at the same time. If someone did copy a sim and used it it would be flagged to the main switch and both sims would suspend automaticaly allowing the person whos sim had been copied the time to call in and ask why their sim had stopped working. Simple system but very effective.

As for government agencies working with the mobile operators, i really cant say. Havent come accross it myself but that isnt to say in cant or dosent happen.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Janus]

Originally posted by Janus

As for government agencies working with the mobile operators, i really cant say. Havent come accross it myself but that isnt to say in cant or dosent happen.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Janus]

In the US there has recently been a HUGE contraversey regarding the BACKBONE phone and data carries allowing the gov't full acces to intercept data, calls, call metadata, etc. If they can EXTRACT packets, they can INSERT packets. That is ALL it takes to fake any call.

news.google.com...

Even mobile phone data crosses backbones quite frequently and if not, all that is required is a redirect at the POP/Towaer router.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Thats some interesting info Slap Nuts, thanks for pointing it out to me
Ill read through it and get back to you.
One thing springs to mind though is that if the intercepts are made outside the US, i.e. at the NSA's main European listening post at Menwith Hill in Yorkshire England would it still be against the law in the US, seeing as the post is on UK soil? I hear that Menwith Hill can intercept any communication made anywhere in the world including the US.

Though I try not to make a habit of it, I have both placed & received calls on a cellphone during flight, albeit quick calls. My phones are never anything special, average priced mid-range models. I used to be Cingular, but currently Verizon. I’m not surprised the CT crowd hasn’t posted more about how they used to claim it “impossible…” before they fell back on “they are faked calls”. Honestly, the cellphone ban isn’t that bad, even though SkyFones are not as common as one might think. I think people spend far too much time on cell phones and I would rather not need to hear people cackling for 5 hours about nothing.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that some people will go to believe a concocted theory. Facts go out the window, science gets misunderstood & the majority of eye witness testimony ignored just to believe their stories, which are far more improbable then the statistics that they often quote about what actually happened. I’m still waiting to see much CT proof of anything, much less willing to make such stretches to believe it.

They had a show on this on Discovery channel's Mythbusters where they tested if cellphones could intefere with plane equipment, and if they could work.

According to that show phones can indeed work, and they weren't able to affect plane equipment using several types of phones and also using signal generators and cranking up the wattage to try and purposely intefere and still wasnt able to.

Dunno how much truth is in it, but was a cool show anyhow.