Propagandists....paid professionals on ATS?

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
i'd have to see a hell of a lot of evidence before i'd believe that ANY of these threads, no matter how bone-headed or off-the-wall, are the product of federal funding.

I tend to believe the same, that it's not likely. At least, I did till Springer said what he did... Even then, I'd have to see the proof.

I dunno, I can't ever remember seeing a job in the paper saying "Advertising Propagandist needed." But if any of you know one of these marketing specialists, I'd like to hear the tale. It'll take a bit before I buy the waterfront property.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Maybe we SHOULD have people pointing fingers. When the finger is pointed at you (knowing you're innocent), you'll know who the paranoid few are.

Point fingers at possible "paid propagandists"?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

The last thing that I want is to allow accusations about one ATS member or another being a "government or ideological stooge" to start flying across the boards. It could easily become very disruptive and even destructive to not only this site as a whole but to the concept of fee and open speech, debate and discussion.

So far, as Springer stated earlier, this dialogue has, indeed, been exemplary. However, should any post start launching accusations and labeling people by name, I would hope that the Mods would take note and edit these posts of any comments that might attempt to identify one's own personal suspects. That's not what this post is about.

As I stated in my opening post, the last thing that I would want to see is a witchhunt begin here at ATS. If you think about it, you can easily see just how devisive such behavior could be and I'm certain that the Three Amigos and every Mod on ATS would agree with me.

[edit on 7/24/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
As I stated in my opening post, the last thing that I would want to see is a witchhunt begin here at ATS. If you think about it, you can easily see just how devisive such behavior could be and I'm certain that the Three Amigos and every Mod on ATS would agree with me.

I certainly agree.

Predictably on a website like ATS, this issue comes up in various ways at various times, and I tend to think of it as a staple of conversation for a conspiracy community -- along with “is the Government running ATS?” and maybe “is Simon really a 'gray' alien?”

I mean come on, it's us. Being suspicious (and a little paranoid) is what we do.

Usually this sort of discussion leads inevitably to finger-pointing and calls for witch hunts, so I must say that I'm pleasantly shocked at how thoughtfully the topic is being discussed in this thread.

The Best Defense

As has so eloquently been expressed in so many ways, there's really nothing we can do to prevent paid disruptors from joining ATS and plying their trade here.

Rather, what we can do -- as a community -- is resolve to make actually disrupting topical discussion more difficult. That way, it doesn't matter if you're being paid or not: if you're out to disrupt discussion on ATS, we're out to stop you.

If all of us as members embrace the concept of respecting other opinions, even if we strongly disagree with them, then paid disruptors have nothing to work with, and we can all enjoy the tremendous benefits of sharing our points of view with fascinating people from around the world.

Thus the answer to paid disruptors is the answer to pretty much every problem which confronts us: we make sure the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use describe an environment which cultivates meaningful discussion of a wide range of topics, and then live by and enforce them.

Though ATS (like life) is full of ups and downs, the strategy seems to be working well so far.





P.S. As an aside, another reason why the concept of “witch hunts” on ATS doesn't tend to carry much steam is the fact that witches -- as well as practitioners of any other system of magical, mystical or spiritual belief -- are welcome here, as long as they honor the T&C.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Maybe we SHOULD have people pointing fingers. When the finger is pointed at you (knowing you're innocent), you'll know who the paranoid few are.

Point fingers at possible "paid propagandists"?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

The last thing that I want is to allow accusations about one ATS member or another being a "government or ideological stooge" to start flying across the boards. It could easily become very disruptive and even destructive to not only this site as a whole but to the concept of fee and open speech, debate and discussion.

Relax. I was kidding. I didn't realize anyone would take that seriously, especially after the grinning face smilie. Next time I'll make sure to post a big JUST KIDDING for those who might miss the humor in some of my posts.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Working for Boeing doesn't make a person a spook.
So yes, I'll call you paranoid (but I'm saying it nicely

)

I didn't say working for Boeing or the government makes you automatically a spook.
I worked for the government, military, it didn't make me a spook either.

And no a spook doesn't have to be CIA, I use it as a general term for someone who is posting for an agenda and lies, not there true feeling. I know who you are referring to, the lefty, and I disagree, just because you have political views oposite yours doesn't make their agenda bad. Agendas can be good you know? I have an agenda to free the world from war and exploitation, does that make me bad?
As a righty I find you more suspicious, the right is fasicm, read some history.
The left bought you the vote, and stopped your husband from legaly being able to beat you (rule of thumb).
Groups like the National Front etc. are right wing....

I said I have a suspicion someone who posts on here, who I know works for Boeing, is a spook. If I told you why I'm suspicious you would understand, but also it would be as good as naming names, so I won't. If you really want to know I guess a U2U would be OK? But can I trust you?

I have no idea who the others I'm suspicious about work for, they just happen to back the government in everything without question and have been doing it on ATS for a long time. If you watch certain ppls posting habits and style, over a period of time, sometimes it becomes obvious what they're doing.

And I'll wager one of the people I'm referring to is the same person all the other posters in this thread are also referring to...It's that obvious.

[edit on 24/7/2006 by ANOK]

i'll concede that there are certainly members about ATS that have their respective agendas, be they benign or deleterious to the boards...

but there's a pretty big gulf between having an agenda and having government support for your actions in spreading that agenda.

there are without a doubt posters here that would manipulate the course of events on this board, but i don't think we're really taken so seriously by the folks in power that they'd plant moles in our midst with the intent of changing mass numbers of minds, or of sabotaging ATS activities.

i'm not saying it's impossible. i'm not saying it isn't plausible. and i'm certainly not saying that the Feds are the good guys.

all i'm saying is that we're just a message board (!), not a militia or a political activist group or something. there's lots of discussion here, but no real synthesis of ideas into action takes place entirely within the context of this (or any) online forum. a government disinfo agent would merely get lost amongst the hundreds of crackpots already milling around ATS, each of whom probably does more toward discrediting serious conspiracy theory than even a dedicated CIA operative could.


[edit]
of course you run the risk that i'm the mole, and i'm only saying this to misdirect.

but that wouldn't be very sporting of me, now, would it?


[edit on 24-7-2006 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I dunno, I can't ever remember seeing a job in the paper saying "Advertising Propagandist needed." But if any of you know one of these marketing specialists, I'd like to hear the tale. It'll take a bit before I buy the waterfront property.

Well companies that do business on the internet tend to advertise for employees by placing ads on the internet. Maybe this is why you haven't run across their "help wanted" ads. But a simple search on google will quickly turn up companies such as Cymphony. You just have to love their company motto; "harnessing influence". It would seem that this company specializes in influence analytics. Of course, in this instance, we are dealing with the development of a new form of advertising meant primarily for companies but, certainly not exclusively. If private industry is doing this, you can expect that politial parties, groups representing particular ideologies and, yes, even the government (our own and other governments) to do the same in an effort to swaying opinion

A hypothetical question:

Lets say someone posts a video on this site that is straight from a dvd video camera- no editing, no form of tampering etc... and that this video is THE smoking gun for UFO's- the craft appears between objects in the foreground and background, the shadows match up, the craft lands and all objects behave in a manner expected by normal physics, and the camera does a 360 to show it is not staged. (unlike a few threads that have been started in the last few months that are fake, fake, fake) Would such spooks take over the website and shut it down to prevent such information from being disseminated? If so, how? Would appreciate your opinion-

Thanks,
G.Houtchens
armchair coach

Yes I also believe that is many people in boards like this that are here to push agendas and if they get pay for it without getting caught . . . well they will do it. . .

I by now kind of understand the well intended discussion with mild to severe blindness that at the end will agree with one point or two . . .

In comparison with the one line thinker that will stick to one issue no matter if everybody prove them wrong . . . those I lose interest quite fast . . . you can tell they are not for debate just to stir things up and instigate mutiny

I used to have some of those in my classroom all the time I just gave them time off

I just can't see that happening. The US had enough troubles trying to keep a lid on the Abu Ghraib pictures. Anything that appears on the net these days that is controversial tends to get replicated and passed around the various net communities pretty quickly. The more likely way of dealing with it would be to attempt to discredit it rather than shut the site down (which would in itself draw a lot of unwanted attention). Would discrediting work? I think the various threads on 9/11 show that attempts to discredit theories on either side haven't achieved much. I still contend that the threat to ATS from paid opinions and information is minimal.

On another level, however, I have to ask whether or not there are people who are being paid by certain groups, organizations and even governments to work at making alternative ideas and beliefs known to the general public. The goal of the groups and their paid, professional propagandists is to sway public opinion with well prepared and carefully worded arguments and disinformation.

You got me. I'm a paid propagandist, duh? Just look at some of my posts.

Seriously, you are probably right. Probably? No you are right. It's the unfortunate by product of fredom of speech just like asses protesting at a military funeral.

There are a lot of threads on here where posters say the same thing over and over. Challenge someone on something and they recite an answer like they read the same book.

All you can do is challenge them in a thoughtful debate. Then they crumble like a house of cards.

Just keep speaking what you beleive to be the truth.

I for one try to drop seeds for people to inspect, so they can research something interesting... I've watched a few plants sprout.... its like watching a fire spread.
But money has never been the object.... just trying to up the population of thinkers, because I get sick of hanging out with idiots... and yes obviously thats my opinion, but I'm entitled to it. But yes we do come down to the point of what to populate the minds of these thinkers with, and why. Also, is it right, or is it wrong? or is it free-will or is it brain-washed control.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Dunno if anyone noticed during the last Presidential elections but it was quite obvious that certain Christian groups were sending out people deliberately to post messages on Forums such as this. You could usually tell by Googling the first few words of the paragraph and seeing the same copy and paste on each forum. Usually it was in the hundreds for each message posted.

INTERESTING. Has anyone heard of the term "astroturf" in contexts like this? It's a term lobbyists apply to the creation of fake grass-roots networks. You gottal love that term.

I have my own suspicions about one or two regular posters who cleave very closely to party lines, but I think most people on here are just regular Joes and Joannas. I have noticed in the past that there have been some real efforts to debunk UFO photos that I myself found utterly convincing... it's when people start drawing stuff on top of the photo to try and persuade people that it's a seagull not something metallic that I start thinking, "either you've taken leave of your senses or you're being paid to do this."

Let's face it, there are many many agencies out there each with their area of responsibility and agenda. The CIA alone has a huge propaganda budget. Rumsfeld et al have published their plans for ownership of the Net, and net neutrality is under attack. It would be naive to assume that NO-ONE here is being paid to do so. As other posters have said, it would be at least equally dumb to go on a witch-hunt. All one can do is go on and try to make the argument. If soneone keeps changing the subject or trying to pull disinfo tricks, then one can draw attention to that at the time.

I mostly wish people whose first language is English would learn to write properly.

Wow, this is almost like clockwork. What is it now, every month, maybe 2, that some guy that doesn't use the search feature before posting, punches up his "theory" about ATS being a dark, decietful, brain washing, government run forum?

Man it's like beating a dead horse.. this subject has been beaten, disected, analyzed, and professionally detailed..

Whatever happened to the days of repeat posts getting trashed? Cuz this is the 5th time I've read this very post in the past 7 months.

Originally posted by QuietSoul
Wow, this is almost like clockwork. What is it now, every month, maybe 2, that some guy that doesn't use the search feature before posting, punches up his "theory" about ATS being a dark, decietful, brain washing, government run forum?

This thread is not about ATS being government ran, it's not bashing on the management and it's saying that the staff are goverment agents.

Reread the first post man, I had to read it a few times myself

As far as I can tell, this is the first thread of it's kind that actually makes sense and is not spewing out the usual "ATS is ran by the CIA"...yada yada yada...

Yeah, there's been a few other Is ATS being monitored threads....


Sporty

[edit on 25/7/2006 by SportyMB]

Even if someone came out and blatently showed that they were a 'paid propagandist', what are you going to do? Should they really be removed from the site? There wouldn't really be a valid reason to not let them be here. Propaganda isn't 'posting blatent mistruths', it's just stretching the facts like most threads on this site already do anyways.

hey everyone,

this is WHY

we are supposed to PROVIDE LINKS n stuff

i see those who will complain and try to prove things
and cry about it , and SLAM YOU ,

BUT

provide NO LINKS to back them up

and just keep getting more outraged

if you want to make us see the "light"
you better have links and pics

cause MOST of us
ALREADY HAVE A MINDSET......until PROVEN otherwise.....
most of us read EVERYONES OPINIONS
and see if other people see what WE DO

and how does the points system work here????
or does it just matter how many people reply.. how many pages you get
to keep the thread on the top 5 most replied

like the people who say "i am god, ask me anything"etc.......
and they DONT even have an idea/subject
but their thread gets to be 20 pages long...
because everyone is busting on them,, and asking them to show proof
and telling them what an idiot they are

some of those threads get more attention than
ones of ACTUAL CONTENT that are serious
and they DISAPPEAR from the MAIN PAGE (out of sight)
kindof like the news websites
if its bad news for the people it stays up all week
if its good news it will get PURGED QUICKLY (so nobody sees it)

so does this BOOST them up to access the more RESTRICTED forums????

cause i've seen quite a few that EITHER spew TOTAL CRAP or
need attention like al gore on southpark (man bear pig)

those are the people i believe
that use this forum ,, just to get to the insider stuff


cause i've noticed quite a few times where a SENSITIVE TOPIC
quickly gets REPLACED by something TOTALLY STUPID....(or a bunch of them)
and then you have a hard time finding that sensitive one again
(disappears from HOT DISCUSSIONS)

and the moderators too!!!

they might MOVE YOUR THREAD
someplace nobody will ever expect to look for it

[edit on 25-7-2006 by yeah right]

Don't know about the hacks and spooks but I'll tell you what, this thread is a great paranoia meter.

What kind of hapless oaf would cruise ATS for money? I can understand doing it for fun, but professionally? You wouldn't last a week before you're wheeled off to the bin, gibbering and swatting at imaginary bats.

I think our government probably spends more resources watching MY SPACE.COM

I can't rule out the possibility that ATS is on "THE LIST" of anti-SHEEPLE subversive
web sites, but overall there is enough variety of opinion here to keep these forums
both interesting and informative.

Even if we STRONGLY disagree with someone's opinion, it's good that we can discuss and explore all sides of an issue.

Fortunately the combined intelligence of ATS members tends to be self policing and generally
acts very quickly to expose hogwash and disinformation.

Originally posted by rich23
I have noticed in the past that there have been some real efforts to debunk UFO photos that I myself found utterly convincing... it's when people start drawing stuff on top of the photo to try and persuade people that it's a seagull not something metallic that I start thinking, "either you've taken leave of your senses or you're being paid to do this."

If you think that people who were able to see that "U.F.O" for what it really was (just a Seagull) are delusional or being paid to say that, you really are too paranoid. Did you ever think that maybe those of us who saw the Seagull instead of the U.F.O. were persistent for the same reasons you might have been? We all strongly believed we were right for many reasons.
Just because someone has a different view of things does not make him/her blind, dumb, or a paid Government agent.