Kraken

Hey, Im a new poster but have been reading the ATS boards for a while now.

Anyway, I recently saw the new Pirates of the Carribean 2 movie. In it is a huge sea-monster named the kraken (Pronounced either 'Kray-Ken' or 'Crack-En')

I have seen giant squid monsters like it before in other bits of fiction, I decided to search 'Kraken' on the old wikipedia.
Apparantly it's not just fictional like I first thought. It's supposed to be located off the coast of Norway and Iceland.

Kraken is the definite article form of krake, a word designating an unhealthy animal, or something twisted. Early accounts describe Kraken as animals "the size of a floating island", and the real danger for sailors was not the creature itself, but the whirlpool it creates after quickly descending back into the ocean. Pontopiddan described the destructive potential of the giant beast: "It is said that if it grabbed the largest warship, it could manage to pull it down to the bottom of the ocean" Norwegian fishermen often took the risk of trying to fish over Kraken, since the catch was so good. If a fisherman had an unusually good catch, they used to say to each other: "You must have fished on Kraken."


Theres loads more over on Wikipedia so got take a look at if your interested.....

Sailors do tell alot of tales about sea life. I hold lots of respect towards them 'cause they know more about the sea then them. Also i do believe in the Kraken 'cause myths and legends have to start somewhere. There also have been large octopi and squids fished up.

I've heard a lot about Krakens too but I always asumed that if they were real they would be in the same catagory as the loch ness monster.

Originally posted by kklover
I've heard a lot about Krakens too but I always asumed that if they were real they would be in the same catagory as the loch ness monster.

I think the Loch Ness Monster, is but a left over from the Dinosaur Age, and nothing akin to Krakens, although I am certain any sailor in the past would have used this "Title" to apply to any large creature of unknown origin.

I would tend to believe the "Kraken" as a "creature" where part of the Occurances that took place prior to the Event refered to as Noah's Flood, and the direct result of what was occuring prior to the Flood.

The Book of Enoch, makes a breif but interesting statement, which appears to be made in passing, but the contents of this sentance MAY afford an understanding of the origin of these Creatures.

Enoch CHAPTER VII.
1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.

5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood.

6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

The Context is flowing thru the Discussion of the Fallen/Watchers who came to Earth and took the Daughters of man, and is carrying on the descriptive narrative.

Verse 5 seems to be suggesting, that along with the Original Sin, of Taken the Daughters of man, the began to sin against the Birds, Beasts, Reptiles, and Fish.

And to devour one another's flesh and drink Blood, which would be further sin.

I have noted elsewhere in here, (ATS) that I would believe things like the Minataur, the Fawn, and such, would have been the results of such sinning, but I would tend to believe, the Krakens as well as the Titans, would have been part of this experiment of Genetic Manipulations the Fallen/Watchers where doing.

Afterall, THIS SPECIFICALLY was the reason for Noah's Flood. To purge this from the earth.

Ciao

Shane

This has to do with Krakens....how

Originally posted by Kurai91
This has to do with Krakens....how

A proposed Origin.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. And I'd like someone to answer about Deleting Double Posts as well.

what BS are you chattin shane theirs was no such thing as noahs flood it never happened theirs no fallen watchers because theirs no such thing as gods or watchers the kraken is just some large evolved form of octopi so dont be puttin religious crap on this thread

replaced offensive word

[edit on 22-7-2006 by masqua]

the kraken is just some large evolved form of octopi so dont be puttin religious crap on this thread

How come you consider religion crap and not giant octopus that take boats to the ocean depths, I think that people who believe the kraken is a work of gods are just as right as people like you who believe it's really a giant squid

Bottom line is, noone really knows, so everything could be right, and everything could be wrong, so let's not call eachothers theories crap

Personally, I didn't know that this is actually a real myth, and to be honeat I believe that this is just another story thought of by drunken sailors in pubs, but who knows...

[edit on 22-7-2006 by NoSuchAgency]

The Kraken does exist, i saw it myself. how the hell it got in my pool is beyond me but it exists. lol

Originally posted by mr cryptoman
what BS are you chattin shane theirs was no such thing as noahs flood it never happened theirs no fallen watchers because theirs no such thing as gods or watchers the kraken is just some large evolved form of octopi so dont be puttin religious crap on this thread

replaced offensive word

[edit on 22-7-2006 by masqua]

Many thank's Masque, for the Editing

Sorry Cyptroman, I did not know that INTOLERANCE of thought was a within the Guidelines for Posting in ATS.

And IF I may, you are mistaken. Just because you wish to Ignore or Deny this, is your problem. Not mine.

I solely offered an observation, and supported my view with material that relates to this train of thought.

You embrace Ignorance and support it with Abuse. Go Figure .

The Good news is, Jesus Saves!


Ciao

Shane

im sorry i was a bit harsh and i used offensive language and i know that people have different beleifs and theories but i just find religion as a lazy way of explaining things

Originally posted by mr cryptoman
what BS are you chattin shane theirs was no such thing as noahs flood it never happened theirs no fallen watchers because theirs no such thing as gods or watchers the kraken is just some large evolved form of octopi so dont be puttin religious crap on this thread

If you don't believe in something don't just slate it offensively. Create or find a relevant thread and discuss it in a civilised way. This is ATS not the playground.

Maybe they're both right. The Kraken is a giant squid that was the spawn of the dreadful sin of angels humpin' our women!

But during the flood, the Kraken held up two copies each of the Gospels (eight arms, remember?) waving madly until the Lord cracked up and showed mercy.

Ever since, the Kraken has sworn off swallowing ships.

Harte

Originally posted by mr cryptoman
im sorry i was a bit harsh and i used offensive language and i know that people have different beleifs and theories but i just find religion as a lazy way of explaining things

Thanks

And take note of the Fine example offered by Harte. He was once rash and apt to respond without consideration for others.

Now he excells at demostrating disproval of the thought, through misreading and twisting what was offered and being cheeky in his responces.

But at least, this is far better than previous replies, and shows he is truely working hard on his people skills.

Now I would like to forward the following, as further consideration of what was offered, although not fully appreciated, previously.

www.widdershins.org...

We can perhaps best understand Poseidon and other Greek sea deities, whose roots Burkert says reach back to the Early Neolithic of 7000 B.C., as palimpsests: one thing set over another over another. In the known material, some gods and goddesses have only a nominal relationship to the sea, yet the sheer number of these underlines the Greeks' deep connection to ocean. A name connected to or familial relationship with the sea may denote sea-related worship at some unknown time or place.

For some goddesses and gods, an impressive list, their whole being and purpose was the sea. The sons of Tethys and Oceanus included the sea-deities Phorkys, Nereus and Thaumas, "Sea Wonder." Like Proteus, whose parents were not named in myth, Phorkys and Nereus had the power to change shape, which Nereus used in wrestling the hero Hercules. Proteus similarly fought the hero Menelaos, who changed to a lion, a serpent, a leopard, a pig, water and a tree. Kerényi and Burkert both theorize that Phorkys, Nereus and Proteus all referred to the same shape-changing sea god, who co-ruled the waves before Poseidon's advent.

Of Tethys and Oceanus's daughters the Oceanids, Callirhoe and Amphiro were goddesses of the sea's flux; Plexaura and Galaxaura, of wind and calm; Thoe and Okyrhoe, of speed and mobility; Petraia of the rocks, Calypso of the sheltering cave, Prymno of the ship's stern. The rest of the Oceanids were also sea-goddesses. Oceanid Doris, Nereus's wife, is mother by him of the 50 Nereids.

As part of their reverie on the ocean, Greek poets named each Nereid: names such as Glauke, "the sea-green"; Cymothoe "the wave-swift"; Lysianassa, "the redeeming mistress"; Menippe, "the courageous mare." Amphitrite, whose hand in marriage conferred sea-sovereignty on Poseidon, is called both a Nereid and an Oceanid.

Another Nereid was Thetis, also called Tethys, a mermaid and clearly an avatar of her grandmother. She had an oracular shrine among the Etruscans, and as Robert Graves notes in The Greek Myths she comforted the smith-god Hephaistos when his mother Hera threw him off Olympus. Zeus considered marrying Thetis, but an oracle said she would bear a son greater than his father. So Thetis married the mortal Peleus and gave birth to Achilles, hero of the Trojan war, but not before showing her sea-nature. When Peleus captured her, she went through a metamorphosis like those of her father and uncle. The Thessalians worshiped her son Achilles as "Ruler of the Black Sea," according to Burkert.

Kerényi calls Amphitrite and Thetis two names or aspects of the original mistress of the foaming, storming waves. By Poseidon, Amphitrite had many children, the most visible in myth the island-goddess Rhodos, of Rhodes, and horn-bearing Triton, described by Kerényi as a satyr of the sea, rapist of young women and men.

Phorkys, Amphitrite's uncle, likewise had a brood of sea-children by his wife Keto, "Sea Monster," including the half-woman, half-serpent Echidne. Echidne married the half-serpent Typhon; Graves notes Typhon was also named as husband of Delphyne, the dragon Apollo conquered at Delphi.

Sea-ruling, however, did not fall all in one family. Rhea's consorts the Telchines, who had their own oceanic aspects, had a sea-goddess sister Halia. Her sons by Poseidon, driven mad, raped her. In response, she threw herself into the sea, becoming Leukothea, the white mermaid goddess who lent the sailor Odysseus her veil to avoid shipwreck. Boetians worshiped a sea-god Glaukos, son of Cretan Minos and Pasiphae.

So we see a mass of "things" being identified, all spawning from the Mythos of the Greeks and Originating sometime near 7000 BC. Now, if these things "SWIM" and dwelt in the Seas, I would refer to these, AS WELL, as being Krakens.

I certainly do not wish to suggest, I do not believe Giant Squids may have been called Krakens, nor do I wish to suggest, Whales and such, may also have been identified as Krakens, by confused but well meaning, Simple Sailors.

But I was also under the impression, some of these sort of being's, would also be considered as such.

I'll throw some more out there for considering in time, IF of course, thinking does not becomes banned.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by mr cryptoman
im sorry i was a bit harsh and i used offensive language and i know that people have different beleifs and theories but i just find religion as a lazy way of explaining things

I do too. However, we have no right to say that their beliefs are wrong. There are gaps in our explanations for everything as there are in theirs. And at least you apologised. Some people on here........ well anyway....

Back on topic.
Considering the many representations of the Kraken the majorty of representations are that it is a squid-like being that is very large.
Now, giant squid could be the culprit, but if we are thinking big what about the Colossal Squid?
These beasts are theorised to grow only two feet bigger than the giant squid I think that it could possibly be slightly bigger.
If it was measured from tip of the mantle to the tip of the the long tentacles who nows how big these mo' fo's can grow?
And if they can grapple with a full grown sperm whale I think they could manage a wooden boat don't you?

Squid and octopi are vicious killers. There's a video floating around of an octopus attacking and killing a large shark (not a great white but...). A colossal squid is fully capable of destroying an old fashioned boat.

Perhaps the reason we don't see them as much now is because of global warming. Warmer seas near the surface could be driving them, or their prey, lower....or any other number of reasons. It is highly plausible.

[edit on 22/7/06 by JackofBlades]

theirs still a lot of sea unexplored who knows how big they could get at the bottom or who knows what might be at the bottom for all we know this kraken might not even be the biggest octopus or squid or whatever it is who knows lol

Originally posted by mr cryptoman
theirs still a lot of sea unexplored who knows how big they could get at the bottom or who knows what might be at the bottom for all we know this kraken might not even be the biggest octopus or squid or whatever it is who knows lol

Rather obviously the Kraken IS the biggest squid there is. If there's anything bigger than the biggest there is, we just rename that to Kraken and forget about the old one

krackens have been started by giant squids sais 'myths and unexplained' giant squids ar'nt THAT big!

Originally posted by merka
Rather obviously the Kraken IS the biggest squid there is. If there's anything bigger than the biggest there is, we just rename that to Kraken and forget about the old one

Are you serious? We can't just change the name of something so it fits with our terms. IF there is a kraken and we find it, it is still a kraken. If we find something bigger we will give it a new name (hopefully one more imaginative than those given to squid - squid, giant squid, colossal squid).

Maybe we would call it a leviathan, or whatever.

Originally posted by JackofBlades

Originally posted by merka
Rather obviously the Kraken IS the biggest squid there is. If there's anything bigger than the biggest there is, we just rename that to Kraken and forget about the old one

Are you serious? We can't just change the name of something so it fits with our terms. IF there is a kraken and we find it, it is still a kraken. If we find something bigger we will give it a new name (hopefully one more imaginative than those given to squid - squid, giant squid, colossal squid).

Maybe we would call it a leviathan, or whatever.

But since we dont know exactly how big a Kraken is, how could we know its what we're looking at?

For example, say we find one species of squid that's 500m across (a small island) with 100 tentacles that can rip a Boeing 747 from the sky. We name it Kraken.

But a couple of years later we find a completely different species with 10 extra arms that is 600m across instead.

Which one is the REAL Kraken? Both? Tough decisions
Maybe its a Giant Kraken...