Who do you think is responsible for this Middle East Mess?

i am Arab so my view might be different than some, so i wanted to know how the media around the world are playing this out. Like who started it or was Israel's actions really justified just because of two kidnapped soldiers. If this happened 3 years ago, everyone would've blamed Israel and halted the crisis, so why now is different; everyone accepting these events as though it were usual. And from what i can tell you Lebanon is a democratic country like any other (in other words it has feelings just like us), so Israel appears all ready to go ballistic on Beirut as though it were Baghdad. Let me tell you, from where i come from we like to think of Beirut as a major hot spot, so thanks Israel for ruining my summer vacation.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by Dioxholster]

being an arab you may find this thread interesting

here

[edit on 19-7-2006 by andy1033]

God has made a total mess of it. First He tells the Jews they are the Chosen people. Then He tells the Christians He is the Messiah and then He tells the Holy Prophet he is getting the final message.

So, No Thanks, God. You blew it on this planet.



[edit on 7/19/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Dioxholster
i am Arab so my view might be different than some, so i wanted to know how the media around the world are playing this out. Like who started it or was Israel's actions really justified just because of two kidnapped soldiers. If this happened 3 years ago, everyone would've blamed Israel and halted the crisis, so why now is different; everyone accepting these events as though it were usual. And from what i can tell you Lebanon is a democratic country like any other (in other words it has feelings just like us), so Israel appears all ready to go ballistic on Beirut as though it were Baghdad. Let me tell you, from where i come from we like to think of Beirut as a major hot spot, so thanks Israel for ruining my summer vacation.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by Dioxholster]

Hesbolla started it. How can anybody deny this fact. They are getting help from Syria and Iran as well.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by ConstantlyWondering]

If you are talking about the mess thats between Israel ands its Arab neighbors, then Great Britain and Europe are ultimately responsible. Face its, Israel was in the cross hairs of Arab countries from the day it was created, so this conflict obviously dates at least to its creation. Israel and Palestine were under British controll for a long time, and Britain didn't give much **** about what happens there after they leave (just like they carelessly created the conflict between India and Pakistan when they made Kashmir part of India). Much of the trouble in Israel as well as Africa and South America can be attributed to European empires and colonies. Europe as a whole is also responsible, when after WWII they didn't mind local ambitions as they decided to create the Israeli state for the Jews of Europe. They didn't consider the conflict that could lead to, and then they abandoned both Israelis and Palestinians to fend for themselves. If Israel gets pushed out into the sea so be it- why should Europe care. If Palestinians get their land taken away in a larger war betwen Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria- so be it.

Who is responsible for the current events between Israel and Lebannon specifically? How about Israel and Lebannon. Israel was just waiting for an invitation to carry out a massive attack on Hezbolah, which has been pestoring israel for many years with small scale attacks. Hezbolah also knew that Israeli's would attack full scale, but decided to take the soldiers hostage anyway. Hezbolah (and Syria and Iran) are using Lebannon as their fighting ground, without least care about the people to whom that country really belongs to. The Lebanese are the ones suffering for it. They successfully threw out Syria recently, but Hezbolah still remained largely inplanted in their politics. Untill Lebannon gets rid of Hezbolah in their politics, they will not be in control of their country. But Lebanese politicians now have alliances with Hezbolah factions, and also do not want to free their land of Hezbolah. So nearly everyone there is partially responsible.

To say that just Israel, or just Hezbolah are responsible, is a greatly misleading statement. Well if there is one bad guy, and one guy, why is the world so split on this issue? Maybe because there are no good guys, and no bads guys. Just too egotistical sides, that keep ramming their horns into each other refusing to yeild or to acknowledge that the other side might be right as well. You are not gonna solve any conflict by blaming it all on one or the other.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by maloy]

constantly fooled, It's apparent you've bought into the Zionist message blathered about by the MSM. Look a little harder and try to live up to your moniker!

Originally posted by donwhite

So, No Thanks, God. You blew it on this planet.

no matter what you say, both sides have there religious fanatics, and like you say, believe they are following gods orders.

probably why the 2 main societies in todays world are secular, namely usa and britain. secular societies populations are far more easily controlled by there leaders.

Good premise for a thread, BTW.

Depends what you mean. The greater overall picture has many people and nations to blame. All have been miserable at even "trying" to get a equitable lasting peace that both side can live in peace with. Israel, the PA and Arab world plus others are all to blame for that, a pox on all their houses.

These most recent events are squarely on the Palestinians and Hezbollah. Israel evacuated Gaza only to see continued attacks by militants there on it's southern border. They left Gaza and the Palestinians still had keep up the little pin prick attacks with no real attempt to stop them till the kidnapping and then Israel reached the snapping point. Couldn't the Palestinians take this withdrawal out of Gaza, use it as a step forward for the Palestinian people and use it as a springboard for advancing Peace talks? No , they had to bicker amongst themselves with half a government who wouldn't even acknowledge Israel's right to exist, while doing nothing to stop attacks from Gaza on Israel. What did they think they were going to accomplish with that? Israel is far from an angel in all of this but recent choices by the Palestinian people and their leadership have been just God awful in my opinion. They didn't even mount the pretense of trying to track down the kidnappers until it was way way to late.

I feel bad that I am ragging on the Palestinians so much. They deserve to have a proper State to call their own and be able to live in peace without fear of attack just as much as Israel does. The current crop of Palestinian leaders is not up to that task I fear. The Palestinian people deserve better leadership in my opinion, even though they did elect Hamas , which I hope was a more anti Fatah vote more than pro Hamas.

They need a leader like Sadat who was willing to take great risk in order to have peace and his land back. The current Palestinian leaders are turtles, unwilling to stick their necks out politically for fear of looking weak to other Palestinian leaders, while their people's aspirations languish. Course look what happened to Sadat, maybe they have a point, however Egypt has it's land back and has had a lasting peace with it's neighbor Israel because people were willing to take risks. Without a Palestinian leader willing to stick his or her neck out, not much is going to change.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
constantly fooled, It's apparent you've bought into the Zionist message blathered about by the MSM. Look a little harder and try to live up to your moniker!

Name calling and wild accusations never win anybody over. I present the facts about the event. I stand by what I say.

Originally posted by donwhite

God has made a total mess of it. First He tells the Jews they are the Chosen people. Then He tells the Christians He is the Messiah and then He tells the Holy Prophet he is getting the final message.

So, No Thanks, God. You blew it on this planet. [edit on 7/19/2006 by donwhite]

Donny, Donny, Donny

I expected more from you my Friend.

So God is at Fault????

My Friend.

The Fault lays at the feet of Satan, Not God. Satan, and his minions have worked, and worked, and worked, OVERTIME, for the last 2000 Years, to get this ready.

It's those that bow to this master, that pull the strings, but it's all Satan's Fault.

Not God's

Ciao

Shane

P.S.

This is what some of these people are

Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Egypt is His People
Assyria is the Work of His Hand
Israel is His Inheritance

Ishmael and his Decendants, the Arabs.

Genesis16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou
art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name
Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against
every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell
in the presence of all his brethren.

And

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have
blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him
exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him
a great nation.

posted by Shane

Donny, Donny, Donny

I expected more from you my Friend.

So God is at Fault?

My Friend. The Fault lays at the feet of Satan, Not God. Satan, and his minions have worked, and worked, and worked, OVERTIME, for the last 2000 Years, to get this ready. It's those that bow to this master, that pull the strings, but it's all Satan's Fault. Not God's

Ciao
Shane

I dunno, S, it does not look good. But if you say so.



[edit on 7/19/2006 by donwhite]

Christians, Muslims, and Jews are at fault for publishing fake texts and claiming the faked texts to be the word of God. Then they say they are the better religion and the others are infidels. Those three corrupt religions need to be abolished before we see peace in the middle east. Therefore I blame Warlords/Tyrants Moses, Joshua, Emperor Constantine, and Muhammad.

Originally posted by Dioxholster
Let me tell you, from where i come from we like to think of Beirut as a major hot spot, so thanks Israel for ruining my summer vacation.

Rather, you should thank the lebanese for being stupid and weak enough to allow hezbollah to infest their frontier.

What can anyone expect? Hezbollah attacked israel, so now israel is attacking hezbollah. If the lebanese don't like that, PERHAPS they should've done SOMETHING to get rid of Hezbollah, or AT LEAST not have voted them into government offices of all things.

If the lebanese really want peace, then they should join the yehudis in destroying hezbollah. Hezbollah doesn't act in lebanon's interests, it acts in Iran and Syria's interests, but its Lebanon that suffers. Why should a shia militia that listens to the Ayatollah even be permited to exist in multicultural and peace-able Lebanon anyways???

this my "opinion" on the matter as of today

who do i think is responsible?

thats the whole problem

every one, every one who has had their hand involve is at fault

here you have multiple sides(parties) that all think that their cause is right and that their opponents are dead wrong, "go figure?"

the whole thing is a carrousel, the killing starts then it stops the killing starts then it stops

boring!

like two little school girls fighting in the yard

no she started it, no no no she started it

who cares, because if they really did they would not be in the situation that there're in now

pointing the finger and placing blame does not solve any thing nor resolve the issue

people just need to get along and get their acts together or just kill each other
either way i'm not going to lose any sleep over it

Originally posted by KingMongolBlueHat
Christians, Muslims, and Jews are at fault for publishing fake texts and claiming the faked texts to be the word of God.

Well, again, I would note, this is the work of SATAN and his Fallen Cohorts, that they have been preparing for the last 2000 years or more. (Actually since the Noah's Flood, but it's not important here)

Who is the MASTER of this? An example

Luke Chapter 4 1-13
1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:
11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

Now, what Satan notes, is close, but as the response Jesus gives shows, no Cigar.

This is the Mind, behind the Problem. This is the One who inspires this problem you note. Not those groups you Obviously Hate.

But even with YOUR hatred for God and the Faiths of his peoples, blaming the wrong parties only does one thing. Further intensifies the Hatred YOU have and deflects the problem from those who have been infected with this Satanic Mindset.

Actually, what you have professed is Satanic in Origin as well. But that's the nature of Hate.

Ciao

Shane

The roots to all this can be found in the Crusades which began the paranoid/schizo/psychotic mindset in the Arab world and has just been manifesting in higher degrees over recent decades with the re-establishment of the Hebrew state. The paranoia, distrust, and hatred of Israel in recent times, epitomizes their view of the West (ie. democratic, progressive, wealthy, stable societies that tolerate other religious views, etc.). Middle Eastern Muslim religious and autocratic leaders have continued to foster, breed, and spew hatred toward non-muslims (and even many conservative Muslims) to further their own selfish agendas.

Until the masses of the Arab nations can find it within themselves to change their thinking and join the rest of humanity, this will never end - until ALL is destroyed.

Who's to blame...
Professional politicians..

These are the people that are specialists in getting control of a government. Most of them don't actually govern.
Here's how it works.
You are the leader of an industrialized nation. Your economy is bad, unemployment is high, inflation is rampant, there is much greed and corruption and large companies feel the laws don't apply to them. The constituents are mostly overworked, underpaid, and are fed up with the status quo.
Your choices are:
1) Find someone that actually knows how to fix things.
2) Manipulate the media to keep people from realizing how bad it really is
3) Blame all your problems on some foreign group that the public knows little about
4) use sensationalist journalism and disinformation to divide you constituency and build their anger
5) start a war to perk up the economy and kill off some of the less desirable population.
6) accuse the foreign nation listed in #3 of being a dictatorship, demand free election, stuff the ballot box and if the puppet leader of your choice is not elected accuse the winning party of terrorism and refuse to acknowledge is.
7) make covert arangements for an attack on a famous building, the claim it to be the work of the foreign nation in #3.
8) all of the above except for #1

The items listed above apply to to Adolf Hitler, and many dictators since him. In the introduction of "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" author and reported Will Shirer, pointed out the need to record the history as it happened.

It's a teribbly thick book, but an interesting read.

Religion is responsible. Until we remove the control religion has over most of the world we will be fighting wars over and over again. Religion lacks one thing that all people seek, the truth about life.

Israel, they abducted two civilians from Gaza, the kidnapped soldier was a response to those abductions. They knew that would happen and it proves to me that the US and Israel have reached another step in their plan for the middle east. The next step will be getting the US involved, probably using a false flag attack, this will happen before or after we enter to justify the invasion.

Correct, we need to destroy the three major religions if we ever want peace in the middle east. The world would be fine if everyone followed Confucious.