Israeli Soldiers Were Captured INSIDE Lebanon

Originally posted by subz
So that too is a legitimate action carried out by a militia against an occupying force.

....

If its a legit action against an occupying force, then the israelis are perfectly legit to be.....occupying and attacking.

UHm, I smell spin.

They had pictures of the destroyed Humvee's of the original capture on MSNBC, clearly on the Israeli border, at the Israeli pillbox looking border guard location.

The bodies Israel is trying to retrieve are from the Tank that hit the land mine that gave chase to the capturers. The same camara man pointed towards Lebanon with his camara and showed the location and described it as about 2 miles within the border.

I don't know how MSNBC could or would possibily fake that report, since it was live the day after the war started from their only reporter in the region.

If there was a conspiracy I'd go for it, but this spin is easily debunked since the news report exists in video, I saw it myself on MSNBC.

My wife says Fox news did a similar report the same day.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

You are most likeley right but why does it say 8 killed on the LEBANESE frontier? Thats a little confusing. It does make it sound like its on Lebanese territory.

Pie

Got to count the dead tank crew. They took off after the raiders, which was stupid. A single tank charging into Lebanon.....some how I do not think they thought through their cunning plan. I understand their emotions, but...well you know.

Wouldn't be the FIRST time, that IDF Crossed the borders of Lebanon.

But it sure is the First time, they got under Fire for doing that.

Which is Right - since they were breaking intergrity of a soverign country.

Israel’s Forgotten Hostages: Lebanese Detainees in Israel and Khiam Detention Centre

Amnesty International knows of 21 Lebanese nationals who have been captured IN Lebanon and transferred to Israeli prisons either without ever having been sentenced or held beyond the expiry of their sentences. These are just some of the detainees whom Amnesty International believes Israel to be holding as hostages. Most of them were captured by the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) or by one of the pro-Israeli Christian militias in Lebanon, the Lebanese Forces or the SLA. Many of them were held in detention centres in Lebanon under Lebanese Forces’ or SLA control before being transferred, usually secretly, to Israel. For many years they were scattered among different prisons and they were frequently moved from one prison to another. In July 1996 18 detainees were moved to Ayalon Prison in Ramleh where they are now held together, reportedly in a subterranean wing.

For those held in Israel, the evidence of where they were being held was painstakingly acquired. For not only did the Israeli Government fail to inform the families of the detainees where they were, it persistently denied that it was holding some of those detained for years in Israeli prisons. News of six Lebanese men who simply "disappeared" from a Lebanese militia detention centre in 1990 only reached their families when it was passed on by fellow Lebanese prisoners who had been released. Even after the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reportedly saw one of the detainees by chance in a prison hospital and informed families that they were being held in detention in Israel and the Israeli Government acknowledged their detention in January 1992, continuing denials of their existence by Israeli officials show the secrecy still surrounding their situation in Israel. After years of confusion about their status, the Israeli Ministry of Justice now states that they, and 15 other Lebanese nationals held in Israel, are administrative detainees held under the Emergency Powers (Detention) Law of 1979. As such they can be held indefinitely without charge or trial.

What about those Lebanees Soldiers, who are already being held captive by IDF?

Where is the outrage of general public, against Israel for Kidnapping them?

I guess there is none...

[edit on 19/7/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah


Where is the outrage of general public, against Israel for Kidnapping them?

I guess there is none...

Not to mention Israel's continuing occupation of land claimed by Lebanon.

Originally posted by darksided
UHm, I smell spin.

They had pictures of the destroyed Humvee's of the original capture on MSNBC, clearly on the Israeli border, at the Israeli pillbox looking border guard location.

The bodies Israel is trying to retrieve are from the Tank that hit the land mine that gave chase to the capturers. The same camara man pointed towards Lebanon with his camara and showed the location and described it as about 2 miles within the border.

I don't know how MSNBC could or would possibily fake that report, since it was live the day after the war started from their only reporter in the region.

If there was a conspiracy I'd go for it, but this spin is easily debunked since the news report exists in video, I saw it myself on MSNBC.

My wife says Fox news did a similar report the same day.

The Attack on the humvees was on the israeli side,but the tank that chased the kidnappers was blown on the lebanony side...
And Subz is very close of been called a lier...

And Subz is very close of been called a lier...

I agree, and have lost immense respect for him/her... It was quite clear what the article said, Subz just read what he/she wanted to read. Happens a lot with Rabid Partisans on both sides of the fense.

subz, as per your original source: "across the border from Aita al-Shaab"

this would indicate that the soldiers were in israel and not in lebanon, unless you're talking about the ISREALI Aita al-Shaab, in which case you're a loon. i don't think you're talking about a non-existant place though, so you're just wrong. you can breathe easy.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Subz,

This is thread is bogus. And you got a WATS for it?

I see that I did infact misread the quoted news article in this thread and for that I completely apologize. I didnt base my opinion on a single article though. I read atleast two articles before that one that stated quite clearly that the troops were captured inside Lebanon.

I'll quote them for you:

Also, they add that the Israeli tank destroyed by Hezbollah, and the soldiers captured and killed on July 12, had trespassed into Lebanon's side of the border with Israel.

[...]

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

Asia Times Online

Now that Hezbollah has “abducted” two Israeli soldiers in Lebanon, we can expect a “wider Mideast military confrontation,” according to Bloomberg. Ehud Olmert holds “Lebanon responsible for the fate of the missing soldiers,” who were captured near Aita al-Shaab on the Lebanese side of the border, that is to say the soldiers violated the sovereignty of Lebanon, a common occurrence.

Israel graduates from killing Gazans to Lebanese

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Geez people do some research.

I did research this topic. Articles telling of the soldiers captured inside Lebanon are getting harder to find. This is how news lives/dies in the corporate media. Articles that say the troops were captured inside Lebanon are being ousted by the corporate media version that Israel was minding its own business well within Israel when Hezbollah crossed into Israel completely unopposed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

It's true. In the first few days, it was even on the BBC that they were inside Lebanon. Now, the news is being spun.

I was watching BBC News 24 last night and during the headlines roundup, they had the gall to claim "Israel steps up it's offensive that began when Hezbollah shelled Haifa"....

WTF? Hezbollah shelled Haifa about 3 days AFTER it began and in response to Beirut being attacked....

Not sure if it was just the way they said it, but they didn't repeat that headline again... I think someone made a cock up, but if anyone was watching and knew little about the situation, then people's opinions can be changed easily.

Thanks for the additional insight Stumason

I've read some duzies in the corporate media lately. Ranging from Hezbollah penetrating miles inside Israel and capturing the soldiers, to the very vague "kidnapped on the border".

Stories such as we're being force fed are as old as time. If we believed what German newspapers said in 1939 we would all still think Poland attacked Germany. Newspapers are owned by corporations, corporations are owned by rich men, rich men have (vested) interests. We only get told what these men want us to know. These same men get very rich in supplying weapons to Israel. It is completely within their power to manipulate public sentiment to continue to acquiesce to Israel in their nationwide slaughter of Lebanese.

At the risk of sounding "biased" I should add that Hezbollah's rocket attacks on civilians is just as barbaric as Israel's. There is no excuse for it whatsoever. They should stick to targeting Israeli troops. (by the way ive always maintained this stance but for clarities sake I often omit the obvious - that Hezbollah has no right to kill innocent Israeli civilians - because their is no shortage of people saying that but there is when it comes to holding Israel to the same standard)

I find it supremely ironic, however, that Hezbollah is rightly denigrated when it launches missiles at innocent Israelis yet when they target soldiers the Israelis respond in massive retaliatory action - which entails Israel killing civilians in response.

Why cant both sides just stick to targeting combatants? Its so inhumane!

[edit on 19/7/06 by subz]

subs you should know that we are the reason this media exists, not the rich guys. We give it its ratings, it makes its money from US! so when you think about it, it is our fault that we have let the rich men be able to influence the media how they want. In the end, we watch it, thus we support it, regardless of what they say.

Change? Its simple, stop watching it and going to their site. The internet is a great new invention. Notice all the bloggers around the world sending their videos from the area itself?

grimreaper797, that is not entirely true. I admit that we have the power to watch/not watch the corporate media but as far as variety is concerned we have little options.

In some major US cities there are one or two newspapers, there are two or three major international news wires, there are four or five major news channels in the states. In Britain there are vastly more newspapers than in the United States but there are even less major news channels. It's only saving grace is the public broadcaster, the BBC.

In Australia our current government is legislating deregulation of cross media ownership rules and international ownership of our media. So we can expect a complete farce of media integrity as experienced in the United States. We are told that we will have atleast five newspapers per city - we dont even have that many now. If there is nothing stopping corporations from owning all five what good is that arbitrary number any way?

Bloggers and alternative news sites are a step in the right direction but they are no panacea. They are prone to the very same problems as corporate media. What makes them better - in my opinion - however is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of them. No one of them can monopolies the 'truth' and can readily expect to be ripped to piece by a fellow internet writer if they are caught trying to.

We are to blame to some extent but when our choices are such as they are our only real choice is to either watch/read this corporate drivel or bury our heads in the sand. Either way it makes for a completely ignorant majority.

[edit on 19/7/06 by subz]

in the end though, it is OUR faults. To say otherwise is an attempt to not take responsibility for what you are a part of. Any sort of support to media that is "monopolized" is saying you are responsible. you cant go "news media is horrible, its all the rich mans fault" but then you watch it. You contribute to the ratings. Unfortunately if the majority doesnt care, then thats how it will stand. Its a shame that the minority gets punished for the majorities ignorance. In the end though, if the majroity is ignorant and leading itself to its downfall, it honestly deserves that fate. Its no one fault but ourselves.

Also if your a minority and the majority is doing the wrong thing, why associate yourself with them. If you think israel is wrong and such, would you call yourself an israeli? If you thought islam was wrong, would you call yourself a muslim? No, the fact of the matter is, alot of people dont like what america was, but instead of saying "im not american" they went and changed america. Instead of just disassociating themselves, they changed what we loved. Now we, the minority, are the people losing on all of this. My question is, are we really the minority, or are we the silent majority?

I wonder how the kidnapping and murder of the 18 yr old civilian fits into all of this. He was apparently executed immediately after being kidnapped.

Asheri

Geez, I thought the hisbollah and hamas appeasers and apologists were quicker than this. After all, it's taken them over a week to come up with this attempted spin. Maybe they spent too much time on the "Oh, the civilians!" spin.

Originally posted by bombers8
I wonder how the kidnapping and murder of the 18 yr old civilian fits into all of this. He was apparently executed immediately after being kidnapped.

Asheri

I wonder why they only executed him and not the others. That is strange. He is an Australian settler and its noted that he was an introvert. Maybe he used to go off on his own with a sniper rifle and pick off Palestinians or maybe other things. Who knows. Settlers know that the places they occupy are not exactly the safest places to be. Settlers have also been known to commit crimes against the Palis as well. The last place I would want to drag my family would be in a warzone. His father should be smacked in the head for putting his families life in danger anyway. Its a shame this happened to such a young boy but the fact of the matter is that we won't know the truth from either side why he was chosen to die when the others were being held for an exchange. That doesn't make sense.

Pie

Originally posted by centurion1211
Geez, I thought the hisbollah and hamas appeasers and apologists were quicker than this. After all, it's taken them over a week to come up with this attempted spin. Maybe they spent too much time on the "Oh, the civilians!" spin.

Bravo!

You have voted centurion1211 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I love how all Subz has is a blog and AT. He ignores the fact that he is wrong and just keeps on going. Kind of like, "Well I heard your point, and I'm ignoring it."
Like this:

I did research this topic. Articles telling of the soldiers captured inside Lebanon are getting harder to find. This is how news lives/dies in the corporate media. Articles that say the troops were captured inside Lebanon are being ousted by the corporate media version that Israel was minding its own business well within Israel when Hezbollah crossed into Israel completely unopposed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

Hey Subz, could it be that the story is getting harder to find because it is bull. Occam Razor: A global media plot, by the JOOOOOSSS; or it is crap.

BTW I never called Subz a liar. I would never do that. Heck I think me and Souljah disagree on almost everything but I would never call him that. That would be rude. Misguided and blinded by their beliefs...yes! Liars...No.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I wonder why they only executed him and not the others. That is strange. He is an Australian settler and its noted that he was an introvert. Maybe he used to go off on his own with a sniper rifle and pick off Palestinians or maybe other things. Who knows.

He probably had very little negotiating value. They may have video'ed his execution; I don't know if that is their way. As you said, who knows?

The last place I would want to drag my family would be in a warzone. His father should be smacked in the head for putting his families life in danger anyway.
Pie

I hear you. I can't even undestand how people can choose that region to go on vacation in, given the unrest.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Geez, I thought the hisbollah and hamas appeasers and apologists were quicker than this. After all, it's taken them over a week to come up with this attempted spin. Maybe they spent too much time on the "Oh, the civilians!" spin.

What attempted spin and what took a week exactly? This thread began almost as quickly as the Israeli bombardment and I quoted the BBC saying the IDF were inside Lebanon on my original ATSNN thread about this, which I wrote as the IDF soldier was being carted off by Hezbollah.