US Human rights Violations: Prisons!

We all know without a shadow of a doubt that we do not want to go to jail or prison....cause we all know what happens there. But are there human rights violations going on there? How is this possible in the United States? This article details some of the findings of numerous rights advocacy groups here in the US, in a report sent to the UN.



This is a great/scary article. As i said above we all know we don't want to end up in a US jail you could get raped killed or worse....made someone personal slave. With the United State imprisoning more people than most if not all Western countries....it begs the question how does the "Freest country" in the world...."defender of freedom and democracy"......drop to such lows.....

Most Americans "know" but don't know what going on in our judicial system. When the most watched TV shows are Crime dramas warning flags should be going off. THE CSI EFFECT to name just one....was mentioned not to long ago in a Newsweek issue detailing how jurists are requiring more and more scientific, "DNA". evidence for capital convictions.

That being said, how many Americans are alright with people being tortured in jail. I fear that many of them might feel that they were getting what they deserved? I say that only because I am American and I have to watch my fellow country men and women do some very scary things.

Hopefully this report will be sobering for this country.....hopefully it will have the affect of mobilizing people to revolutionize our judicial system. Punitive actions have proven themselves to be highly ineffectual in dealing with the criminal elements within populations....isn't time that we try a new method....rehabilitation for example. There are other ways to deal with crime. More to the point when you lock up people for breaking simple laws with career criminals...you don't end up with more simple law breakers...you end up with new career criminals.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]



[edit on 12/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Was going to click "yes" but got distracted by someone coming into my office and clicked the wrong link. To tell the truth, I don't really know what sending an alert means ...

IMO - this is an important story. Unfortunately, you have not reported it.

Please - work on a rewrite that outlines the basic information. I want to vote yes.

This reads more like an OP-ED than a news article. I'm interested in the topic, but I sure would like a little more meat on them bones.

I'm voting "yes" because I can't wait to discuss this topic.

Totally understanable Sofi i will try and write a better piece....but thank you all for atleast showing me that this is an important topic to ats. I will get more info and be back with it later this afternoon.

The report documents various forms of human rights abuses in the United States, which include police brutality, abuse of immigrants, racial discrimination, and the use of torture in prisons.

It would've been better to detail some of those instances, and also to show why its the prison system, as insitution, that is the cause of it, and thus in need of reform.


I agree, in general though. Prison is not supposed to be a violent place. The first prison in the US was in Pennyslvania, outside of Philadelphia. Every prisoner was put into a cell, by himself. For exercise, he was permited to 'leave', through a doorway at the back that was opened for a few hours, it opened to a cell for an individual that was 'outside'. They were attended to by staff, which carried out all of the needs of the prison, cooking, serving food, cleaning, etc, not the prisoners. It was a Penitentary, where one was supposed to be penitent (ironically, it was started, if I recall correctly, by Quakers, who are the ones opposing the prison system in the report).

It was incredibly expensive, and that model failed.

Now, when a minor criminal is put into prison, they merely enter into another world where the violent are given free reign, are permited to create gangs, and are able to operate their criminal enterprises in the real world from the prisons. They are, effectively, despite the design and intent recruiting small criminals into a world of bigger crime, and exxacerbating and networking the existing big criminals. Its pointless.

The US needs to quadruple its number of Prisons, and the amount of money it spends on them, or more so. A prisoner shouldn't have private contact with anyone, at all, and should only have contact with prison staff, their lawyers, and maybe visitors. They shouldn't be permited to congregate, let alone socialize, with other criminals.

Leave it to a group of wackos to come up with something like this.

What about Moussaoui who has been sentenced to maximum security for life at Florence Colorado? They have no right to dictate how he is held and in which manor that is up to our laws not international laws.


I realize there may be problems but taking it to the UN is not the answer that is what our supreme court is for. :shk:







[edit on 7/12/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Now, when a minor criminal is put into prison, they merely enter into another world where the violent are given free reign, are permited to create gangs, and are able to operate their criminal enterprises in the real world from the prisons. They are, effectively, despite the design and intent recruiting small criminals into a world of bigger crime, and exxacerbating and networking the existing big criminals. Its pointless.

The US needs to quadruple its number of Prisons, and the amount of money it spends on them, or more so. A prisoner shouldn't have private contact with anyone, at all, and should only have contact with prison staff, their lawyers, and maybe visitors. They shouldn't be permited to congregate, let alone socialize, with other criminals.

I totally agree with you.

I personally believe that the death penalty is morally reprehensible. But all moral considerations aside we shouldn't put prisoners to death based on the fact that hundreds of people have been wrongfully executed in the United States. Does that mean I think we shouldn't take a tough stance on crime? No, not at all.

I think anyone who is convicted of Murder, Rape, or Child Molestation should be given a mandatory sentence of life without parole. These people need to be permanently removed from our society. But we can't do that because the prison system is overcrowded and they're having to let people go before their time has been served. Nowadays if you want to put someone in prison for life you have to give them multiple life sentences. When someone receives a life sentence it usually means they will get out in 25 years or less; life in prison should mean exactly that-- you spend the rest of your life in prison.

I agree 100% with Nygdan

Shocking!!!

Actually the prison system is a world unto it's own. As far as reform goes, prisoners have almost unfettered access to the legal system at our expense. This is to ensure that the BOGUS allegations of some EXTREME liberal organization such as was quoted, never comes true.

Oh there are murders in prison, and rapes and stabbings and every other form of degradation conceived by humanity. But what is it you want to do about it? OK build the thousands of prisons that would be necessary to segregate each prisoner and find yourself paying 75% of your income to the IRS. Nope that wont float, no one would agree to that. Have them build their own prisons? Nope, can't do that either, forced labor was eradicated by the same liberal, treehuggers that made that report. Abolish crime? Do that and become the richest man on the planet.

No Answers.
yet every liberal group in the world will come out with some BS report like this to justify their existence and continue to get tax dollars to fund their "research."

Semper

We should kill the people on death room but shooting. It is ridiculous how people who murder a family and don't care are taking up our tax dollars. Granted some may not have committed a crime. So it is better that they stay in jail forever?

Drug possession should not=jail time. Only drug selling.

Rapists & child molestors should at least be chemically castrated if they do it again.

Immigrants should be deported if they commit a crime, and be put on record.

And someone said that America has more prisoners than other western countries. Well duh, we have more people. More illegal immigrants. What do you expect?

Originally posted by semperfortis
yet every liberal group in the world will come out with some BS report like this to justify their existence and continue to get tax dollars to fund their "research."

Semper

Fund their research? Nah it is more like filling their coffers with your and my money. They take a case pro bono win it against the government and in turn they collect money from the government which you and I have to pay as taxes. Totally unfair and unacceptable, they all should be banned from the earth. Then put on space ships housed at area 51 and send them to Mars to protect the Martian rights

[edit on 7/12/2006 by shots]

I work in this industry and I can't see the States being that different to the ones in Canada:

"Far from being out of the ordinary," says McClary, "or an aberration--which is the image painted by the Bush administration--prison abuse and the use of torture in the United States is frighteningly widespread."

The human rights violations, as pointed out in the report, also refer to the use of electric stun belts, grenades, and guns; tethers; waist and leg chains; air tasers; and restraint hoods, belts, and beds.

Prisoners, according to the report's findings, can be held in long-term solitary confinement and extreme isolation in severely confined spaces with little or no daily contact for days, weeks, months, or even years. Sexual assault of female prisoners is common.

"prison abuse and the use of torture in the United States is frighteningly widespread."

It does happen BUT it IS "out of the ordinary".

"also refer to the use of electric stun belts, grenades, and guns."

Not allowed in an institution. What would happen if inmates go control of those weapons?

"can be held in long-term solitary confinement and extreme isolation in severely confined spaces with little or no daily contact for days, weeks, months, or even years"

Complete BS, they are allowed yard, maybe alone but "fresh air" is something all inmates are allowed. Segregation may be needed but that is for their protection.

BTW, semper, I take exception of your use of the word "liberal" in this discussion.

Okay so someone said to castrate rapists and pedophiles...thats is a tried tested and flawed model....all they do is use foreign objects which tends to be far worse than actual genitalia.

Also...I take offense to the LIBERAL comments....Psychology has PROVEN that Rehabilitory facilities work far better than penitentieries...all they do is network career criminals with small time offenders...So i agree with you on that one semper...but this is not some liberal conspiracy to get more money.

You can judge a country based upon how they treat thier elderly, mental ill, and thier prisoners....If you were to judge the US based upon these three things we would be one crappy country...

Jail is supposed to set you right so that you can reenter society and function appropriately...unfortuently all jail does is teach people more hate.

Check out these articles and tell me what you think.

Rehab Cheaper Than Prison, Study Finds:
www.csdp.org...

No Escape: www.hrw.org...

HRW on US prisons: www.hrw.org...

Actual Report that was submitted to UN : hrw.org...

Letter to Virginia leaders about Water for prisoners: hrw.org...

And those are just a few sites and articles detailing Human Rights abuses purported to have happened in US Prisons....

There are better ways...thats all im advocating for...Im not advocating that we pamper real criminals...but when Joe blow John Q Public is being incarcerated with real criminals there is a problem...If our current method actually worked then why havent we seen a steady drop in Prosecutions, Jails, and Reprosecution? The fact of the matter is that we have a flawed system and people are not willing to fix it....It is easier to just say well they are Criminals and they dont deserve rights...well they are still human....and what are you going to do when every day activities that you believe are right and okay are outlawed and you end up being on the other side? THats my question for those of you who dont support prison reform.

Let me read your articles and get back to you.

As for taking exception to my use of the word Liberal. You obviously have the incorrect mindset that the word liberal is politically exclusive.

Liberal :
noun :
2. A person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets

Adjective :
1. Showing or characterized by broad-mindedness
2. Tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
3. Given or giving freely

As you can see, my use of the term Liberal was entirely correct in the NON political meanings of the word.

Semper

There is little doubt about the prison system in the U.S. being broken; however, I don't really buy all that about torture. You are going to have some maltreatment of inmates in any kind of penal system, but it's going to be rare here in the U.S. Most abuse and inhumane treatment comes from the other prisoners, not the authorities.

The biggest problem I see personally, is the fact that we have entirely too many prisoners. You cannot expect to mix first timers, expecially non-violent first timers, in with the violent offenders and career criminals and not have problems. I'm not advocating a country club setting for such people, but in so far as is possible there needs to be better segregation of the prison populations. Of course, the only way real prison reform is going to be possible is to have overall judicial reform. There has to be some way to punish the dopers and non-violent criminals in our society without incarcerating them behind bars. It costs way too much the way we have it set up now.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

Ok I've got a suggestion here that combines a lot of great ideas I've seen here.

The first part of my plan involves seperating prisons into three parts. The non-violent criminals, the violent one's with temporary sentances, and the guys with life sentances or are waiting on the death penalty.

The first group is the one's that aren't really threatening to other human beings (and animals I suppose). The kind of people serving time for things such as drug possesion. What we do is with these people into isolated groups of no more than ten. These groups will be the only contact that they get with other prisoners. This will be a bit like putting them into gangs, but the gangs won't have contact with other gangs. This way there won't be any of that gang fighting and such. But on the otherhand in order to survive prison without making it a hellhole they'll have to get along with the other's in their group. While they're in prison they'll be learning how to get along with other humans while serving out their punishment.

Next is the guys in prison that did some stuff that threatens society but aren't in prison for life. By the time you've cut out all the non-threatening criminals, their shouldn't be too many people left. This means that we should be able to afford to simply cut the cells in half and stick one prisoner in each. Nothing but one bed. No more individual toilets. Instead what will happen is you'll be granted a set amount of bathroom passes each day. You'll ask a nearby guard to be allowed to use it, and then he/she will determine whether or not to allow it. If the guard allows it then the prisoner will be allowed to go to a set of toilets at one end of the cell block. Each toilet will have a divider seperating them to avoid contact with other prisoners. Guards will split up any conversation (besides things such as "excuse me"). With this method all the threats to society that a judge deems worthy to return to society won't be interacting with other threats to society.

Finally we have the criminals that have got life in prison, or are simply waiting to be executed. We'll just toss them in one big communal cell. It doesn't matter if they interact (whether it be a polite chat on globalization, or by a more "personal" method) since they're not getting out alive anyhow. It really doesn't matter what happens to them since they're no longer a part of society. Although keep in mind this means that when they're granted a life sentance they'll be expected to serve that sentance.


And that ladies and gentlemen is my solution.

Its late, but tomorrow I'll get into something Intrepid may be familiar with as well: is called "objective classification".

Also one other thing that needs to be clarified before this really gets rolling: what constitutes torture? To Amnesty International this includes the use of handcuffs. Is that where this is heading?

I see where you are going with that Hogtie and thats not where i am wanting this thread to go...down that path lies the death of this thread. I am in no way shape or form advocating that kind of lunacy. Restraints are a neccesary mechanism for controlling what are often times uncontrolable people.

However, I believe that torture consitutes Beatings, rapes, forced initiation rights, long-term-isolation, malnutrition, etc... I also believe that it is the DUTY of guards in prisons to keep these things from happening. Oft times guards are just as bad as inmates....as evidenced by the results of the Milgram study in the 1970's(www.prisonexp.org...). We know that when you place good people in situations like prisons what you end up with is horrible people.

Because I believe ion the results obtained during the Milgram study i am biased against prisons not only because of what they do to inmates but because of the pschological damage inflicted upon the guards as well..

Check out the www.prisonexp.org... site because it is an eyeopener to anyone who doesnt know about the Milgram experiments.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Part of the reason prisons can be so bad is the justice system. They incarcerate minor felons, but allow bail to people like the Creba shooters.

toronto.ctv.ca...

Peopel who start gunfights in crowds get bail, but the local dealer doesn't? And what about the number of guards? As I understand it, the system is woefully undermanned. You cannot expect guards to be everywhere, at all times, just like you cannot expect them to take risks above and beyond the call of duty. As for as Amnestry international goes, and as far as the allegations presented...they are symptoms of a castle whose walls are barely manned. Riots occur, but are you going to send in guards naked? No, you'll throw tear gas, dogs, anything and everything it takes to quell the rioting.

By that same token, I know that in Canada the only way to get mentally ill violent offenders off the street is to incarcerate them after they do serious damage. AS such, there are quite a number of mentally ill people in prisons. But, then again, due to the Mental Health act, it violates the human rights of patients to be treated for more than 100 days. A teacher of mine on Peel Police once had to break a man's shin in order to subdue him after he nearly downed a 12-year-old boy. The man was sent to court, remanded to the custody of an institution, and was out two months later. This is a case where both liberals and conservatives are at fault.

DE