Far-fetched theories

Originally posted by JIMC5499
From the Merriam-Webster OnLine Dictionary
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Main Entry: the·o·ry
Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thir-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject


Definition number 2 sums it up for me. If there was proof then a statement would be fact not theory.

there is also that saying - "the world is built on lies", it has to be built on lies. just imagine everyday how many truths you speak of to friends etc... read the tabloids or mags and find some truths in there. where are real truths.

we all look at these things from the outside, and we only try to accept info we want. this is what this board is all about. if you want serious debate there are more serious forums on the web. but stuff to do with aliens is always going to be based on speculation becasue the general public will always be relying on our leaders to give us the truths that they will never do.

"knowledge = power" is the most important equation in this world.

I like reading these alien threads, because I find them interesting. That doesn't mean I believe everything that's posted, but, being a writer (shall I say 'struggling' because I haven't published anything yet?) these threads might give me ideas for a story or two.

Prote, you told me to look at your sig.
"For those that believe, no proof is necessary, for those that don't, none will suffice."

Now does that mean if I were to tell you I'm actually an alien from a far-distant planet, and if I say it often enough, and loud enough, and give you as much detail as I can, you'd actually believe me? Without proof?

O.k., then, let me tell you about the real me...

Originally posted by Thekherham

Sometimes I think I should reveal my true history, but unless you are really gullible, you won't believe a word of it. Of course all those who believe all this other malarkey will probably believe it, and, hey, I won't need any proof. Just take my word for it.

I think you should reveal it, too.

Just make sure it's-

a) true
-or-
b) posted in the fiction forum

Either way, I'll read it. I'm not really gullible, and I find it interesting you think only the really gullible would believe it.

My concern is that there are so many cranks, that if anything concrete is ever found who would believe it?

Here's something to think about: what if all, or mostly all, of these claims were true. Could it be that ETs are manipulating reality for those people just so that the rest of the world doesn't believe the truth when it appears? I'm sure there has been a thread done on this already.

So by dismissing these accounts, we may be perpetuating alien fraud! Will the rest of the world hold us accountable for making the situation more muddy? Will I be chased to a windmill and burned alive inside? I just don't know...

YOU FREAKIN' ALIENS!!!

Originally posted by Prote
I don't understand why people can't look at a piece of information/theory or whatever and if it seems delusional, bizarre or a complete fabrication, so what? Just take in the information, process it and if you draw those conclusions, dismiss it and move on...

...

...Unfortunately, people are unable to have a conversation about confliciting beliefs and it turns into an argument.

Prote, that made my day. I agree 100%.

You may not find truth on a conspiracy site, but you can learn about the nature of information and human story telling, and how different the nature of human information gathering is from the 'classical educational format' of directed reading into which we are indoctrinated at an early age.

When I was in 7th grade, I outlined a history textbook. Completely. Every sentence. I was nuts. The teacher took me aside and said "This history text book is crap. Its filled with lies and innaccuracies. I want you to go read the original source letters of President Jackson to his agents in Indian Affairs, and write down as many questions as you can think of."

Thank God for him. I would have never realized what President Jackson was really like from a textbook.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

Originally posted by Thekherham

Prote, you told me to look at your sig.
"For those that believe, no proof is necessary, for those that don't, none will suffice."

Now does that mean if I were to tell you I'm actually an alien from a far-distant planet, and if I say it often enough, and loud enough, and give you as much detail as I can, you'd actually believe me? Without proof?

No it doesn't and Im afraid this is what constricts your understanding. This is how I would approach it, think about it...

1. Fact, fiction or delusional, I would find it interesting.

2. If I think you are delusional or telling the truth, I may ask questions in an attempt to trip you up or see how much sense you can make. At any point, I may agree or disagree with any individual point you are saying.

3. If I draw the conclusion you are a crackpot, I will most likely delete the thread from my favourites and move on to another.

4. At no point will I start shouting "this is BS" "you are a fraud" "you are delusional". The fact is, I won't really know either way, I will only have an opinion and a percentage of others reading it will either agree or disagree with you and indeed my own conclusions.

I don't really know how to help you understand that it is ones own thought process when reading this information that is important, not the information that is presented. Take all factors into consideration, make up your own mind and feel secure in your own beliefs. The thing is, I think most people who do the most shouting, aren't secure in their beliefs and thats why they have such a problem.

Anyway, that is my opinion and you have the right to hold a different opinion. Neither of us are necessarily correct.

Thanks for the support Eco, nice to know!

A note about my sig:
I get more annoyed by people saying got a photo? wheres your proof? We all know in these type of threads it is not forthcoming so how do these people contribute? It is my belief that they should move on or post questions designed to trip up the poster....all of which in a well thought out and polite manner.

The belief part isnt really relevant as smart people will process information as I described (I think) and those that don't believe, they don't seem to understand that even if these people did come up with this photo or some proof or evidence, they would simply try and debunk that. If you don't believe, nothing that is presented to you on this board will change your mind so asking for it is futile, even if it was given.

[edit on 12/7/06 by Prote]

Originally posted by Denied

but if you want the truth, you have to start out as a skeptic.

Actually i found the opposite, i started as a firm believer in alot, now i think i am more skeptical of things, a better understanding i guess.
But i still believe

I once heard something like this, all we need is one picture, one video, to be true for the whole topic on UFO/ET's to be true.

I started out as a skeptic. As a uni student, I was susceptible to many of the false counter arguments and opinions of my professors. Like faster than light speed travel is not possible.

But than I realized our limited understanding. Of course humanity cannot explain how a theoretical UFO could get here, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. So I began reading some of the more serious books on the subject neutrally. Throw in my own life experience working for the military-industrial-complex, and there is enough preponderance of unexplainable events and legitimate declassified government documents for me to take the leap of faith.

I'm fairly certain "UFOs are real".

But that's where I draw the line. What the government actually knows, potential alien motivation, technology scavenging, and discussing so-called abduction experiences is speculation.

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Main Entry: the·o·ry

Definition number 2 sums it up for me. If there was proof then a statement would be fact not theory.

Well some person's conspiracy theory is speculation by definition so of course anything labeled a "far-fetched theory" cannot be faulted for speculation. But I think the original poster's intention was to bring up the idea that 90% of the posts in this forum and all of the 5,000 view/50+ page odyssies are random "theories", rather than a rational "based on facts" discussion. Such as: If the govt doesn't think aliens are real and UFOs are of no national security concern, why are there so many classified documents on the topic with agencies like the CIA and NSA, as determined from FOIA requests?

Originally posted by andy1033
there is also that saying - "the world is built on lies", it has to be built on lies. just imagine everyday how many truths you speak of to friends etc... read the tabloids or mags and find some truths in there. where are real truths.

we all look at these things from the outside, and we only try to accept info we want. this is what this board is all about. if you want serious debate there are more serious forums on the web. but stuff to do with aliens is always going to be based on speculation becasue the general public will always be relying on our leaders to give us the truths that they will never do.

"knowledge = power" is the most important equation in this world.

There is also the saying that all arguments are not equal.
I don't believe everything we know is speculation. Of course the leaders tell lies and obscure the important issues, but that doesn't imply we have no course of our own to gain at least some of the truth.

Originally posted by hogtie
My concern is that there are so many cranks, that if anything concrete is ever found who would believe it?

YOU FREAKIN' ALIENS!!!

LOL

But seriously, that's why I'm bothering to write this.
There is a taint to Ufology because it draws out certain human flaws.
I could care less what some housewife wants to believe, but when the majority
of discussion revolves around outrageous claims that border on megalomania-
Such as: I'm secretly a reincarnated alien soul from Xanadu, let me tell you the reality of life and the secret to the universe.

Or did you know aliens come to my house every year on my birthday, but they're invisible. I don't actually see them but they talk to me. And then one hundred people rush in on the thread, oh really ! What did they tell you ?
Don't forget to take your anti-psychotic prescription ?

It's sort of disheartening to me and I think it just pushes us further from the shift in the public conscience we need to force disclosure. We should attept to elevate the discussion.

Schaden,

I very thought provoking post! You hold many of the same opinions as me yet I believe that even some of the more outlandish claims can be learned from. It's almost like Madonna 101; the only difference is you don't get credit for taking the class.

I can honestly say that there are a handful of regular posters that I just find to be unreadable. The unfortunate thing is that there are many band wagon jumpers to support their delusions or narcissistic ramblings. I am actually quite concerned as to the sheer multitude of people that believe every way out story that comes down the pike.

What scares me the most is if so many are taken in so easily, what happens when the next Hitler shows up?

Originally posted by jbondo
I am actually quite concerned as to the sheer multitude of people that believe every way out story that comes down the pike.

What scares me the most is if so many are taken in so easily, what happens when the next Hitler shows up?

I find these statements more constructive than the original post. Perhaps they are indicative of the success of the disinformation efforts and to some extent reinforce the reasons people are giving for non disclosure at this time.

Just don't confuse "interest" with "belief". Stuff leaks out, that's just inevitable. There's some truth buried in the dreck, of that I'm sure. If I was in charge and had some superduper major tiptop secret of unbelievable magnitude, knowing so many people were involved and something's going to spill, I'd make sure enough implausible disreputable stuff was tied to it to cause the whole thing to be discredited, then just let it leak.

Bad analogy time-

"Hey I have proof the CIA killed Kennedy"

"How do you know?"

"The Romulans told me."

Now the next time somebody comes up with evidence the CIA killed Kennedy, the response is "Oh yeah, that's that info from the Romulans. Hahahaha."

Just as easily info about structures on the Moon or Mars become "Oh yeah that Hoagland guy. That's all bushwa."

Likewise, if Rense or India Daily or a like-themed source reports on it, it's tainted from the get go.

And of course, the general population doesn't give a flyin' doughnut anyway.

"Yeah, yeah, UFOs and stuff. Check the price of freakin' gas, man!"

My position is that "it's all interesting and intriguing". And everything is credible in its own way. Roswell is credible. Icke is credible. Abductees and contactees are credible. Dr Greer is credible. Friedman is credible. The skeptics are credible.

I don't believe in suppressing how people act in this forum. I want to read it all. I can see from both sides of the fence. I keep a level head at all times, no matter how wacky it is or how it seems I'm a "gullible believer". No, it's just that I am interested in reading the full story to its fullest, no matter how truthful it may turn out to be. And I think that's what a lot of readers at this forum feel about things.

I see there's a thread about Sleeper right now. Y'know, look if he's taking you for a ride, then so be it. It's interesting to read regardless. All this "oh the wild nutjobs are harming the ufology field".. cry me a river! As an individual human with a brain capable of critical thought... USE IT! But spare the care and concern for the community at whole.. please!

Originally posted by Prote
4. At no point will I start shouting "this is BS" "you are a fraud" "you are delusional". The fact is, I won't really know either way, I will only have an opinion and a percentage of others reading it will either agree or disagree with you and indeed my own conclusions.

This is an excellent point and makes perfect sense to me. It is a simple fact of life, that without proof, we really don't know who is telling the truth and who isn't.

The most comical aspect of this entire argument is that when there is disclosure, we will finally have a much better idea of who is telling the truth and who isn't. What if.....the one we consider the biggest nutcase is telling the truth? Will you apologize then?

In closing...my mother used to always say..."there are 3 sides to every story..your side, my side...and the truth..."

Originally posted by RiotComing
My position is that "it's all interesting and intriguing". And everything is credible in its own way. Roswell is credible. Icke is credible. Abductees and contactees are credible. Dr Greer is credible. Friedman is credible. The skeptics are credible.

I don't believe in suppressing how people act in this forum. I want to read it all. I can see from both sides of the fence. I keep a level head at all times, no matter how wacky it is or how it seems I'm a "gullible believer". No, it's just that I am interested in reading the full story to its fullest, no matter how truthful it may turn out to be. And I think that's what a lot of readers at this forum feel about things.

I see there's a thread about Sleeper right now. Y'know, look if he's taking you for a ride, then so be it. It's interesting to read regardless. All this "oh the wild nutjobs are harming the ufology field".. cry me a river! As an individual human with a brain capable of critical thought... USE IT! But spare the care and concern for the community at whole.. please!

So, since you have the capacity to figure it all out and keep things in perspective then "F" everyone else! Is that what you're saying? Because that's what it sounds like. You can't be France and not expect eventual riots in the streets.

I am not so much concerned with harming the UFO community as I am having someone gain a powerful hold on others. I would venture to guess that most of these unsuspecting pigeons are highly impressionable young people. Next thing you know a school is shot up. Although I do realize that this is an extreme example, it is not like it hasn't happened before.

Originally posted by RiotComing
Icke is credible.

Please, there is nothing credible about Icke.

Ufology will never gain a mainstream footing until people stand up and call out the liars and frauds for what they are.

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by RiotComing
Icke is credible.

Please, there is nothing credible about Icke.

Well he's predicted quite a few things that have come to pass, take this quote from the intro of 1999's (pre-911) "The Biggest Secret" for instance:

(George Bush, Henry Kissinger, Tony Blair, et at); and conspiring to create events which will make the public demand the Agenda is introduced through problem-reaction-solution (wars, terrorist bombs)

..is that right on the money or what? That was just a random extract.. Ickes books are FULL of truth. Sure, don't take everything at face value but some of this 'wacky' stuff holds more water than you realise.

Icke's research regarding our origins and the anatomy of our world is also culled from cutting edge scientists who know the true nature of our dna so I wouldn't be so quick to call him a liar and fraudulent. Take the time to read the books and watch the videos sometime. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but an informed opinion is even better.




[edit on 17-7-2006 by RiotComing]