We ARE winning the war on terrorism!

I realize many of you are doubters out there, but I honestly believe we are winning. The latest victory can be seen in the thwarted NYC tunnel bombing plot.

abcnews.go.com...

There have been several plots discovered and stopped since 9/11. I think the Bush administration deserves some credit here. I know many of you will say this is how they planned it (9/11 conspiracy, Iraq war, etc.), but there will always be those who think everything that happens is due to some shady conspiracy.

Rubbish, its a war you cannot win, there will always be another terrorist attack. The only way to win is to convince them not to attack any more.

And are we winning the 'terrorism' that occours everyday in Iraq/ Afghanistan? I'm not sure on the U.S but in the U.K i think I read it is predicted there are around 1000 Muslims who would volunterily give their lives for the cause, i'm sure there are many more world wide.

That's like saying we're winning the war on drugs because there was a drug arrest. Like Flyer said, we will 'win' when we treat others in a way that encourages them to respect us instead of wanting to kill us. THEN we will have won. But fighting violence with violence is not going to work in this case.

BTW, the url in the first post isn't working for me.

The only victory I'll grant the Bush Admininstration here is how they've so successfully made their citizens believe a war like that to be completely rational.

Such a ridiculous notion should really make you wonder what the other hand is doing...

The next 5 attacks could be stopped but try telling relatives of the victims of the 6th one that were winning the war on terror.

Britain battled the IRA for decades, the only way it was solved was convincing them to lay down their arms and they did and there have been no more attacks.

Sadly, there is no way of convincing people to do that if they are so brainwashed that they are willing to give up their own lives in order to kill others.

i think that america and uk are police states now in all but name. any of these plots will be started by intelligence services who seek out certain type of people who will fall for it. just look at the group who fell for the stuff with the chicago tower. they believe they were entraped.

most of these things will just be entrapment, by police forces.

Okay, some valid points. How would all of you win it then? Lay down? How do you convince people who want to kill you because of your beliefs or way of life to stop? I realize the majority of Muslims are not like this, but the radicals are. I don't believe you can convince them to lay down their arms.

How would you win this war?

Well first off; Who do you think is your enemy? How do you recognize him/her/it?

See your problem? You might as well start a war called "The War on Bad People".

And don't think for one second your administration don't know this.

I see your point Durden - there will always be "bad people." Our policy had to change after 9/11. Before that, we basically bent over and grabbed our ankles every time we were attacked abroad. In other words, we used to passive. Would you continue to be passive? My guess is you're one of the ones who believes Bush planned 9/11 so we could attack Iraq, so this is all a moot point.

Uhmmmm....Sorry...NO.

You kill one cocoroach and 1,000 come to the funeral. :shk:

This is a war without end.

Originally posted by Durden
How would you win this war?

Well first off; Who do you think is your enemy? How do you recognize him/her/it?

See your problem? You might as well start a war called "The War on Bad People".

And don't think for one second your administration don't know this.

Basically sit and wait for someone to shoot (that's if you see them of course), if not you can't react because if you do you are going to get eaten up by your own side and the media.

So..

Well sit there and wait for your patrol to get ambushed and hope for the best.. you come out unscathed. If not i'm sure another soldier will be in your shoes before you can even hit the floor. I do not think it is a matter of hearts and minds- after all we are not in control of their country. They are.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Knights]

dgtempe...what are you saying? I'm not being rude, just seriously want to know what you mean. Are you saying that by killing one, a 1,000 more immerge?

You CANNOT win a war on terrorism. Tell me how you can POSSIBLY do that without killing everyone. In order for terrorism to end, the human race would have to.

terrorism - n. - the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear

Read that definition of terrorism and think for a long while if we could actually stop it.

In fact, I believe if anything, the United States has increased terrorism in two ways.

1. They have instigated terrorism in their "war on terrorism".
and
2. They have increased their enemies will to perform these acts, and the acts are being performed in far larger numbers now.

Originally posted by undecided2
Okay, some valid points. How would all of you win it then? Lay down? How do you convince people who want to kill you because of your beliefs or way of life to stop? I realize the majority of Muslims are not like this, but the radicals are. I don't believe you can convince them to lay down their arms.

Then you cant win. An attack will get through sooner or later.

I'm not sure who 'we' are.

We are an international board with posters from around the globe so I sincerely doubt we (all) are winning.

Originally posted by Omniscient


You CANNOT win a war on terrorism. Tell me how you can POSSIBLY do that without killing everyone. In order for terrorism to end, the human race would have to.

There specific instances in history when terror campaigns by a given organization were halted.

Geronimo, Pancho Villa, IRA, Various Kazakh uprisings against the Romanovs. Movements like the Holy Vehm and the Hutterites of the Middle Ages and Renaissance are historical terror groups that failed to achieve their goals before being disbanded.

Basically, the terroist movements that succeeded, like the Viet Cong, Mau Mau, the "Mountain Boys" of the American Revolution, all of them were simply one facet of a larger struggle that also relied upon conventional arms and diplomacy to complement the terrorist activities.

The U.S. led response in Iraq is succesful in that their allies are denying the insurgents the opportunity to construct conventional units with which to fight a rebellion. OBL's policy of refusing to negotiate has meant that he'll never aquire conventional forces.

An historical example from US history might be the Klu Klux Klan of the Reconstruction (1865-1875), that was trying to build a second succession of the southern states. They ultimately failed, again because they never developed the conventional forces necessary to drive out the federal troops. Note that an organization called the Klan still exists today, but is largely a "vacuum-sweeper" operation controlled by the FBI, and is politically irrelevant.

That is the US goal for the various islamofascists - turn them into irrelevant fringe groups, unable to recruit enough members to do anything other than hold parades. While they'll never go away, the goal is to reduce the viability of their threat.

There are several elements to forcing them into fringe status:

-deny them a recruiting base by raising the standard of living in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The vast majority of the populace will not participate in terror movements if they have hope of prosperity on their own. Right now, the US is succeeding on the ground in Afghanistan, by building wells and power grids for rural villages. When farmers have the chance, they'd rather farm than fight. This leaves the Taliban in the position of having to DESTROY utilities in order to keep the people desperate. Large numbers of the population see through this, and refuse to assist in their own oppression.

-Creating opportunity.
Opening markets, bizaars, and transport networks that give people a chance to flee terrorist press gangs, and develop their own economy. The terrorists still have to pay for things, like bribes, informants, salaries for auxillary troops, etc. By creating opportunity, the coalition forces the terrorists to spend more of their precious money on running an organization, and getting less for what the terrorists spend.

-Making the life of a terrorist too expensive for the individual and his family.
Israel has learned to do this within the occupied territories, which is why indigenous terrorism has fallen off. Now, the vast majority of attack come from outside the occupied territories. Regardless of what you think of Israel and its "punative countermeasures," such as leveling the houses where terrorists lived, has had a dramatic impact on the PLO, and now Hammas.

In Sum, while it is ideologically popular to say that "you cannot win against terrorism," this is simply not the case. Sun Tsu wrote about this in the introduction to "art of war." The ultimate battlefield is in the heart of the individual soldier. You win, not by making the enemy die, but by making him give up.

.

There is no war on terrorism. It's an illusion, a Chimera, a hoax to generate revenue for an already bloated elite class.
Wrap it all up in a flag, fear, and macho strutting around with guns and the masses will suck it up like swine at a slop bucket. The elite are brilliant, they know how to play the public like a 3dollar fiddle. Especially when you have the MSM as your hucksters.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!

Dr. Strangelove, thank you for posting a well thought out and presented argument. IMO, while it is true that we will never be able to completely diminish the "terrorist" threat, the more they are marginalized the less relevant they become.

[edit on 7/7/06 by surfinguru]

Originally posted by undecided2
dgtempe...what are you saying? I'm not being rude, just seriously want to know what you mean. Are you saying that by killing one, a 1,000 more immerge?

Of course that 's what i'm saying I'm not with Pest Control!!!

Its one of my favorite sayings.