Solutions 101, Lets just fix it once and for all! The Israeli/Arab Conflict.

So, being one who tends to live in the Right of life, and I am sick listening to the underachieving Left, I think it would be only proper to solve this problem.

No one has wished to in over 50 years, so it's about time We solve it.

The U.N.
The Arabs Nations.
The "Palestinian-Arab Terror" Groups.
The Israelis
The U.S.
The Vatican

None of these have done anything constructive.

Several parties here, (Don White and Wind lately, and others previously wished to discuss this), and have points that should be expressed.

I have some points I'd like to express.

But lets not dwelling on these wasted 50 years. What would you do today, that could solve this problem once and forever in the Shortest period of time.

My Personal view is simple.

1: Let the Arabs out of the West Bank and Gaza, and let them go to live and start a life of prosperity and growth in a neighbouring country of their choice.

2: Allow any who deem it important enough in their lifes, to stay, and make them become CITIZENS of Israel. There, 'they can', partake as everyother citizen of Israel, Arabs and Jews alike, and start to Work and build a life in their new homeland.

3: Take the Eastern Borders of Israel to the Jordan and its done.

This could be accomplished in a few months.

No one will like it, but surprise, they seem to wallow in this misery of a life, not liking anything short of ever Jew being pushed into the MED and drowned. (The Arab Dream)

Or spliting things into Caged State scenarios like the City Zoo. (The Olso, Madrid and U.S. Accord Visions)

As for Compensation Packages, Each Party involved, could secure a United Nations Cash Outlay for rebuilding, and the Member States of the Arab League that extended "havenhood" to those who left could likewise be compensated.

The question of Title over Jerusalem is a sticking point, but again, one that is Simple. Make it the Capitol of the World. Everyone wins, and None loose.

The Vatican and U.N. could center in Jerusalem. Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Jews could all worship in their respective shrines, and the Peace of Jerusalem will be kept by the U.N. Forces.

And I will agree wholeheartedly. This is nothing perfect. It is only a opinion to Solve the senseless slaughter of Arab and Jewish Children, while the Terror Groups are hiding in Day Care and Schools, and Israel is hiding it's Military targets on Transit Buses and Cafes.

What is your solution? Anyone is welcome, and remember, we are attempting to solve something, no one seems interested in solving, for whatever clandestine reasons "they" may have.

Ciao

Shane








[edit on 3-7-2006 by Shane]

Dear Shane
I think the solutions you proposed contain some suggestions for Palestinians to leave their own homeland just for peace, whereas they can't forget all their sacrifices to keep their land. Why not suggest giving them an independant state? UN forces would stand on the borders as in Lebanese South. If they remained in Lebanon and other neighbouring countries, they will forget their country, their cause , their right to return to live in a decent state, with a decent life for them and their children. 50 years of being refugees is not serving them. They become burdens on other countries, especially on Lebanon. Since I am Lebanese I can tell the situation as it is happening. Other countries can use them for political games and give them weapons, threatening peace between Lebanon and Israel. The Lebanese have had it from wars. Besides, after the civil war, religious representations in the country became at stake. If they are gonna give the Palestinians Lebanese nationalities (given that Palestinians are mostly Muslim Sunnis), then this is gonna threat other sects' positions in the country, who will not agree on that. See how complex the issue is?

While if they are given an independant state, something that they certainly want and fight to achieve, it will solve their problem. They'll sign a peace treat not to attack Israel and israel not to attack them. In this case , the problems that might arise is the unaccepting of some palestinians and Israelis : some of both parties will think this to be sacrificing their own land, and we have seen how a fanatical jew assassinated Isaac Rabin because he wanted a peace treaty with the Palestinians.

As for other solutions like taking the Eastern borders to Jordan, how do you expect Jordan to agree. Jordan is an independant state that have had it also from wars.

regards

Capitol of the World?

That, and several other points you make sound like the exact pre-requisites to AntiChrist/NWO taking power. I think you sir, are probably more perceptive than most. This may be EXACTLY what happens. Great thread.

Originally posted by Wind
Dear Shane
I think the solutions you proposed contain some suggestions for Palestinians to leave their own homeland just for peace, whereas they can't forget all their sacrifices to keep their land. Why not suggest giving them an independant state? UN forces would stand on the borders as in Lebanese South. If they remained in Lebanon and other neighbouring countries, they will forget their country, their cause , their right to return to live in a decent state, with a decent life for them and their children.


As for other solutions like taking the Eastern borders to Jordan, how do you expect Jordan to agree. Jordan is an independant state that have had it also from wars.

regards

I ask you my friend seriously.

What are you suggesting. Give people, who have no comprehension of any life outside of a cage, the right to rule themselves in that Cage?

No matter what Left Wing Wackos may suggest, that would be no life for a Dog, let alone a part of Humanity.

A Choice MUST BE MADE, to move on. Either that of the situation that the world has placed in effect will continue until your Grand Children are dead and buried, (meaning no disrespect to you or your Grand Children).

And MY Arab Cousins are part of my Family Wind. They come from my Ultimate Father, and his family line. The Jews, the other 11 Tribes of Israel and the Arabs all all Abraham's Offspring.

So please do not think I have no compassion for them. Things must be fixed in Jerusalem and Israel Proper. It's time to do something, and I can not see how proceeding down the path of nothingness with no end in site, is as a viable option for any party.

Be Done with it and Move one.

As for Jordan, That is their Border today, so they loose nothing, and get to visist with the relatives when they come on over to re-establish.

Mend those divisions 60's year of Internment.

As for MajesticJax, Thank's, but I tried not to go toooo far down that path. I purposely left the Temple Mount Deal out of the story, since it will be HIS deal to make. Not Mine.

I'd just be happier in life knowing Children are not Blowing themselves up along with other Children for now. Let the Men fight it out Standing up and confronting eachother on the field, or sign a end of hostilies. Israel can take care of herself.

Ciao

Shane

First. Clear the warmongering people in both Israël and Palestine, most on Israël side. (Big Issue) (On list: Olmert and other several people in political parties)

Second. Give back the 1967 land to the palestinian.

Third. Make a Palestinian State. (As they want)

Four. A peace treaty between the two.

Five. Reduce funding to Israël. (Because they use it to bomb other countries)

Six. Israël pay for the reconstruction of Palestine. (As the german did in the first/second world war)

Seven. A political party of peace MUST be in power in Israël.

Eight. Destruction of the wall and all the security barriers.

Nine. Jerusalem become a international city protected by UN. (Even if I hate NWO)

Ten. Punish the war mongering people for war crimes on both sides. (Olmert, Sharon, ect...)

With that, it would be AWESOME.

posted by Shane

posted by Wind

Dear Shane
“ . . the solutions you proposed for Palestinians to leave their homeland for peace, whereas they can't forget their sacrifices to keep their land. Why not give them an independent state? 50 years of being refugees is not serving them. The Lebanese have had it from wars.

If they are given an independent state, something they want and fight to achieve, it will solve their problem. The problem that might arise is some Palestinians and Israelis and we have seen how a fanatical Israeli assassinated Rabin because he wanted peace with the Palestinians.
regards Wind [Edited by Don W]

I ask you Wind. my friend, seriously. My Arab cousins are part of my family, They come from my Ultimate Father, and his family line. The Jews, the other 11 Tribes of Israel and the Arabs are all Abraham's offspring.

Religion has failed to bring peace. Of what value is any religion when it brings only death, sorrow and destruction? How can a religion which announces its adherents are children of the same (historic) character yet at the same time, remain content to witness each of those related descendants plot to kill and maim each other. Endlessly.

Please do not think I have no compassion for them.

[Compassion is defined as sympathetic concern for the suffering of others.]

Hmm? How can I tell if you’re telling it straight, Shane? It’s easy to say, maybe even convenient, but how do you convert words into deeds? Or are the words just rhetoric?

I'd just be happier knowing children are not blowing themselves up along with other children for now. Israel can take care of herself. Ciao
Shane [Edited by Don W]

Well, Shane, if one side has a well armed and fully equipped military and the other side has nothing along that line, how to you express your outrage? How do you resist? How do you make your point for redress of grievances that cannot be ignored for 60 more years? Three more generations. Pull a Buddhist monk on the street corner every day? Or blow up some of your oppressors?


[edit on 7/3/2006 by donwhite]

While your solution may seem reasonable to some shane i'm afraid i cant agree.

Correct me if i'm wrong but you seem to be suggesting that Israel does not have to make any concessions, in fact their lands shall increase and they become the capital of the world while the palestinians get shoved out of the way and lumped on someone elses doorstep with little or none compensation, and forced to live somewhere other than where generations of their families have lived.

As much as i would like to also see peace in this area i believe both sides need to make genuine concessions, with a multinational peacekeeping force on site to ensure compliance. I am fortunate enough to live along way from this conflict but that doesnt mean that i'm not terribly saddened by the continuing deaths of innocent men, women and particularly children from both sides.

It seems to me that there are too many in power on both sides who are only too willing to see the violence continue to further their own agenda's.

m4s

Originally posted by Vitchilo
First.
Second.
Third.
Four.
Eight.
Nine.
Ten.
With that, it would be AWESOME.

If I am not mistaken, these are part of many agreements made by Leftists in the Past, that both sides agreed to. Not to point fingers, but nothing has been resolved.

Five. Reduce funding to Israël. (Because they use it to bomb other countries)

This was news I have never heard about. Please provide some links so I can review these. I do not wish to have overlooked Israeli Bombings in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. I know about Lebanon, but thats a Response to Foreign Terrorists, and Iraq for Security, but that aside, this is News. BIG News.

Six. Israël pay for the reconstruction of Palestine. (As the german did in the first/second world war)

And how many Arabs have been lead into the Gas Chambers, and how much wealth have the Israeli's horded from their Conquested of the known Middle East and the resulting two World Wars?

Seven. A political party of peace MUST be in power in Israël.

But Terror Organizations must be in Power in Gaza and the West Bank.

These, three points, seem really to be either based on some twisted Humour of yours, or you have bought a Media Spun Piece of Con Pie.

But those other seven, I think from what I recall, have already been presented and agreed to in one form or another.

As an aside, I find it also Funny, you single out Olmert. The only voice in the last three or four months wishing to do something constructive, and you already have him on a hate list. So I suppose, terrorists who capture your soldier and is hidng like the cockroaches they under the dresses of the Women and in the Diapers of the Children in the West Bank and Gaza is of course fighting the Good Fight.

Looking forward to those News breifs of Israel conquering and steal everything they came across While warring with all the nations of the Middle East. This is going to be Big New Vitchilo

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by mojo4sale

Hello Mojo4sale. Trust you have been well.

Correct me if i'm wrong but you seem to be suggesting that Israel does not have to make any concessions, in fact their lands shall increase and they become the capital of the world while the palestinians get shoved out of the way and lumped on someone elses doorstep with little or none compensation, and forced to live somewhere other than where generations of their families have lived.

I will. (Correct you ). Yes I am suggest Israel Pays nothing. This is not Israel Fault that the situation is as it is. It is those who produced the Balfour Declaration, and the Following Parties that have stepped forth to continually feed this to the point it is today.

And the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza, can go home to their relatives that have had them locked in Pens for 60 years. It is not "Someone elses doorsteps, if they are family.

As much as i would like to also see peace in this area i believe both sides need to make genuine concessions, with a multinational peacekeeping force on site to ensure compliance. I am fortunate enough to live along way from this conflict but that doesnt mean that i'm not terribly saddened by the continuing deaths of innocent men, women and particularly children from both sides.

It seems to me that there are too many in power on both sides who are only too willing to see the violence continue to further their own agenda's.

m4s

And I echo your comments here Mojo. Not much that could be added to this beyond what you have said.

Originally posted by Don White
Religion has failed to bring peace.

Nothing done in Israeli nor by it's neighbours has had anything to do with religion. It has been created and manipulated by Bureaucrats bowing to the Mighty Buck.

Well, Shane, if one side has a well armed and fully equipped military and the other side has nothing along that line

I am sorry for not making that clearer. I meant the neighbours, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia ETC.

I agree, the West Bank and Gaza Strip have nothing, nor will they ever. It's part of that Game/Con being played out by those with the interests to have it so.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
No one has wished to in over 50 years, so it's about time We solve it.

50 years? The Jews and the Arabs have been in conflict since before Jesus was born. What makes you think we could stop it and make them sit down to peace talks?

And why should we get into it? For money, oil or whatever? For humanitarian reasons? [noble yes, reality no] All it does is get more people hating us.

posted by zorgon

posted by Shane

No one has wished to [end it] in over 50 years, so it's about time We solve it.

50 years? The Jews and the Arabs have been in conflict since before Jesus. What makes you think we could stop it and make them sit down to peace talks? And why should we get into it? For money, oil or whatever? For humanitarian reasons? Noble yes, reality no. All it does is get more people hating us.
[Edited by Don W]

There was a point in time not so long ago - pre-Bush - when the US had sufficient credibility with both Israel and the Palestinian people that the US could have “solved” the on-going crisis. Anytime we wanted. So what’s up, Doc?

One astute observer has pointed out it is US Middle East policy to keep the region in turmoil, so the 99.44% poor people do not install a socialist regime and nationalize the oil resources. Turmoil is easier to manage. We keep out favorite despots in power which serves the dual functions of keeping our access to oil open and gives our military industrial complex its raison d’etre. So who wants stability?

I believe the Israeli people have come to realize this sad state of affairs and have decided to unilaterally end the conflict on their terms. It is hard to blame people who really do want peace and tranquility. OTOH, the Israeli approach is violative of the UN Charter. We find ourselves on the real horns of a dilemma. It is important to world stability to respect and adhere to the Charter. We have already been there, done that, in regards to the League of Nations. Let’s not have a re-run of WW1 and WW2.

Regardless what happens in the near term - nothing will, I predict - why don’t we start our debates here at 1967? Prior to then, it is always ‘he said, she said.’ Pointless.

Me On Religion. I think Adam and Eve, v.1 and v.2, are mythological beings. I think the alternate Origins story - Noah - is a take-off on the more ancient Gilgamish. I think Moses and the Red Sea story is an example of a poor wandering semi-nomadic tribe of herdsmen laying claim to ancestry in the greatest kingdom on earth, Egypt. "Hey, look at us! We built the pyramids!" Like we see around us today, people who claim they are part Indian, back then everybody who was anybody had a distant relative who was an Egyptian. Sorry, but there was no king Saul. No King David. No King Solomon. No Solomon’s Temple. No Ark of the Covenant. Not Stone Tablets. No Manna. All make up stuff. Stories for telling around a campfire on a cool summer night. Our trouble today is we try to make true stories out of tall tales.



[edit on 7/4/2006 by donwhite]

Short of either completely eradicating Israel ans/or the surrounding Arab nations, then someone is going to be unhappy.

I always look at it similat to Northern Ireland, you can please 99.9% of the people but the other .1% will never be happy with the decision.

posted by CIS001

Short of eradicating Israel or the surrounding Arab nations, someone is going to be unhappy. It is similar to Northern Ireland; you can please 99.9% of the people but the other 0.1% will never be happy with the decision. [Edited by Don W]

Right! And an unfair decision will give the 0.1% all the fuel they need to keep “it” going ad infinitum. We knew the underlying cause of the North Ireland “Troubles” and still it took 3-4 decades to put “it” to rest.

OTOH, If it had not been for the violence of the IRA, I don’t expect “it” would be solved today. This puts a premium on violence. See also Cyprus, Sri Lanka. Ache. And etc. the world stands by unwilling to take the steps anyone can see need to be taken. I guess we prefer violence. I say that because people generally do what they prefer.

OK, I hear a lot of thoughtful ideas without facts:

1. Israel withdrew from the occupied territories, trying to show peace. What is their reward? 1200 mortar attacks from those territories since the time they have withdrawn.

2. Someone recommended allowing all palestinians to become integrated and citizens of Israel. This is akin to allowing all the Guantanamo prisoners to become citizens in YOUR hometown. Would you really want this? Note: these prisoners have been done wrong. They do not deserve limbo- they deserve justice. Here's an article about "Black Jack" Pershing for whom the Pershing missle was named after, and what he did about Islamic terrorism in the early 1900's.

[A True story about General "Black Jack" Pershing.

Born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede, Mississippi
Died July 15th, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
1891 Professor of Military Science and Tactics University of Nebraska
1898 Serves in the Spanish-American War
1901 Awarded rank of Captain
1906 Promoted to rank of Brigadier General
1909 Military Governor of Moro Province, Philippines
1916 Made Major General
1919 Promoted to General of the Armies
1921 Appointed Chief of Staff
1924 Retires from active duty
Education: 4 Years-West Point

One important thing to remember is that Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell.

Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it's interests by, you guessed it, Muslim extremists.

So General Pershing captured 50 of the terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.

The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.

They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single attack by a muslim fanatic anywhere in the world. ]

NOTE: Not all in Guantanamo deserve this fate- some do though. Some deserve to be released immediately.

3. In 1967, Israel was being shelled from the Golan Heights. The arab countries surrounding Israel were massing for for an attack. A full scale invasion. Troop movements were monitored and affirmed. Israel took the fight to them and afterwards "gave back" the entire Sinai Peninsula. You can guess the result.

4. These palestinians are the same ones who DANCED IN THE STREETS and GAVE OUT CANDY TO CHILDREN when innocents in the twin towers were massacred. The news agencies had to be asked by the US goverment not to show these images on tv after they were first aired. Do we celebrate when innocent arabs die? Answer: no.

5. The palestinians will not leave their squatting camps voluntarily from the west bank. They dig tunnels underneath the border in order to take hostages or perform acts of violence, terrorism and murder. They are dedicated to the destruction of the state of Israel and all Jews, as is their government.

This is far more than a political issue. It is a spiritual one. There is much more to it than this- Israel is not innocent either.

One final note: I make many generalizations, and they are not necessarily binding. Not ALL palestinians desire to kill Jews. Not ALL perform acts of terrorism. I make this statement to provide facts which have not been mentioned on the actions of the population of palestinians, not individuals.

G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian

[edit on 4-7-2006 by Houtchens]

[edit on 4-7-2006 by Houtchens]

[edit on 4-7-2006 by Houtchens]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Shane
No one has wished to in over 50 years, so it's about time We solve it.

50 years? The Jews and the Arabs have been in conflict since before Jesus was born. What makes you think we could stop it and make them sit down to peace talks?

No, I have NO CONCERN for the Cousins Fighting Eachother in a Battle Scenario, which would be part there of the Problem you are pointing to. I've noted it previously, Israel can defend herself.

The Problem I am solely concerned with is two concentration Camps, the World Continues to wish to place these Arabs peoples into. These Concentrations camps will never be United. They will be two Seperate, but Presumed one Country, under the Accords. No Ports, No Airports, No Highways, No Infastructure, Nothing but Two Caged Areas that host the Exhibit call the PALESTINIANS.

It may seem harsh to express it in this manner, but someone has to make the point. A Game preserve has more area than the Gaza Strip. Is this the solution?
Cage them in and make them a Tourist Trap.

:-Visit the Bomb Building Centers. Make your Own Suicide Pack.

:-Learn how to produce a child that is more intent on blowing him/her self, up along with the Enemies Children than playing.

:-See how Money for Humanitarian Uses get diverted to House Terrorist Familes in Compliant Foreign Countries (ie, Arafat and France, Sadmans family in Jordan), or purchase supplies from Terror Netwroks around the Globe

I say this with some jest, just to make a point here.

The Solution is Not maintaining the Situation as it is seen today.

These people need to be FREE, and not held within the confines of the Camps by the Whole Globe.

Is Israel at fault in this? Of course they bear some responsiblity, but this has been mainly due to their Own Security.

Why will Jordan not allow the flow of Arabs from the West Bank? Simply to Abuse their Own People to make a Point.

Why does Egypt not allow the Flow of these people out of Gaza. I do not need to repeat myself.

Arabs within Israel Proper, have for the Most part, become VALID Citizens of Israel, and have Voice in Political Circles in Israel. Hiafa has a large Population of Arabs living fine lifes with their Jewish Cousins.

So, there are two sides. Certainly people can move on and accept the benefits of Israel, or they can live like livestock in Fenced areas. The Choice is theirs to make. But the Efforts to keep them in this State forever by the rest of the Globe is truely the Crime here. , There is an ever increasing number of Arabs in these communities that will NEVER KNOW FREEDOM. 60 Years could be the Generational Clock. A Generation Born, Raised and Died in this state.

And For What? Polictical Unrest and Destablizing the Israel to make Jerusalem and Israel a burden to the world.

Zechariah 12 notes

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

It is nothing that is surprising, and it is not like this is some unexpected situation. This is part of the Parable of the Fig Tree, the rebirth of Israel. It is these days we live in, and it is so ONE, can bring that wished for Peace to the region.

This is why today, we have these Arabs housed in these pens, for that ONE. He is the master and his pawn's have done everything possible to build this to a boiling point.

So, let's take the first step, and solve it before that point.

Ciao

Shane


[edit on 4-7-2006 by Shane]

Simple Make "palestine an actual country, cut off aid from the US and Isreal (thier largest funding source) and let them starve until they decide to be peaceful.


Since noe of thier "arab brothers" will lift a finger to help them the land'll be empty in 4-5 years.

posted by Houtchens

OK, I hear a lot of thoughtful ideas without facts:
1. Israel withdrew from the occupied territories, trying to show peace. What is their reward? 1200 mortar attacks from those territories since the time they have withdrawn.
[Edited by Don W]

Uh, H, I musta blinked when Israel “withdrew” from the Occupied Territories. When did Israel leave the West Bank - Samaria and Galilee, the Golan, and East Jerusalem? If you please. You can’t call the unilateral Israeli “evacuation” of Gaza - and that about to be undone - to be of any consequence? 1.4 million people "confined" to 135 square miles of rocks piled on more rocks.

2. Here's an article about "Black Jack" Pershing for whom the Pershing missile was named, and what he did about Islamic terrorism in the early 1900's. A True story about General "Black Jack" Pershing. Before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it's interests by Muslim extremists. General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the terrorists. The soldiers soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single attack by a Muslim fanatic anywhere in the world. [I question the last statement. DW]

One man’s hero is another man’s terrorist?

H, I hope you are not recommending we summarily execute prisoners of war, torture them and violate their human rights in 2006 as Gen. Pershing did in the 1900s? Are you working for Geo W? For your info, H, the Moros are still fighting in Mindanao; the US is still there on the side of the Catholic government of the Philippines which has tried to force conversions on the Muslim Moro since Phillip II, in the 1500s. The Moro have lived in the Philippines since time immemorial. They converted to Islam in the 11th century. You can be a Catholic in Mindanao but not a Muslim on Leyte. So much for religious tolerance.

3. In 1967, Israel took the fight to them and afterwards "gave back" the entire Sinai Peninsula. You can guess the result.

No, H, I can’t “guess the result.” I do know the US kept a 700 man US Army Peacekeeping Force there for years, indeed, they may still be there. As part of that deal, the US agreed to pay Israel and Egypt $3 billion a year, each. The Dec. 12, 1985, Newfoundland plane crash killed all 248 men of the 101st Airborne Div at Ft Campbell Ky plus 8 aircrew, returning from Egypt for X-mas at home.

The cause of the crash was first blamed on one of the Army passengers who, it was theorized, had exploded a hand grenade, but later investigators found the de-icing had not been thorough enough and the wings gave insufficient lift for the fully refueled and loaded DC-8 plane on take-off.

This is far more than a political issue. It is a spiritual one. There is much more to it than this- Israel is not innocent either.

Sweet Jesus! As if it is not already mucked up enough, please let us not bring God into this. Or, how many God-fearing Christians were burned at the stake by other God-fearing Christians? Re St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre? And etc. Hmm?

One final note: I make generalizations, and they are not necessarily binding. Not ALL Palestinians desire to kill Jews. Not ALL perform acts of terrorism. I make this statement to provide facts which have not been mentioned on the actions of the population of Palestinians, not individuals.

G.Houtchens, armchair coach, amateur historian

Me too.



[edit on 7/4/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite

Me On Religion. I think Adam and Eve, v.1 and v.2, are mythological beings. I think the alternate Origins story - Noah - is a take-off on the more ancient Gilgamish.

Unexpected turn of the thread, unless I missed something in an earlier post. Lemme read back

I agree with that, Especially the Noah part, but maybe thats for another thread?

TO SHANE

Yes it is true that the US was interested in peace awhile back, afterall we did get Isreal and Egypt to sit down and work something out, and I think that agreement is still pretty sound today.

As to keeping turmoil in the region, that is most likely true in present day politics, but that is a RIGHT wing agenda not the underachiving LEFT

Originally posted by CIS001
I always look at it similat to Northern Ireland, you can please 99.9% of the people but the other .1% will never be happy with the decision.

Maybe but that situation has made peace. I understand the IRA turned in guns for amnesty. People may not agree, but eventually they get tired of war.

Somehow though in the Middle East, after 2000 years of conflict, they still havn't gotten over it. I do believe religion is to blame... correction... religious fanatics...

And in this area it is a unique situation as the God of the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims is the SAME God... the conflict is over which version is right.

Yes I know a little over simplified but still... most reasonable religious leaders on all side know this to be true. I have talked to many common people of all three religions, and they know this to be true...

So why can't the reasonable people and leaders [they ARE the majority afterall] get together and just not tolerate the fanatics?

God must be sitting up there just shaking His head at the stupidity of it all. I am pretty sure He isn't too happy with all the killing done in His name. Two millenia and still going....


[side note Germany in World War II had "Gott mit Uns" [God with Us] on there banners]

Originally posted by Houtchens
[rue story about General "Black Jack" Pershing.

Thanks for that I never heard that before. Would that be a workable solution today? All the back lash for the "torture" of prisoners etc. Seems if this worked it would certainly be effective. The terrorists would have to think twice if they are killing for Allah, but then denied entrance...