How do decide tell right and wrong?

Sun, which one do you live by - right or wrong

Here's what I believe.

I have no need for religion, only the truth.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Sun, which one do you live by - right or wrong

Here's what I believe.

I have no need for religion, only the truth.

Ted Bundy lived by truth - his own. Hopefully we don't become neighbors.

Originally posted by queenannie38
But it's not like you think and it's not about christians. Christians are not the 'elect.'

Yes they are, you can call them christians, believers, saved.

Col.1
[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
[2] To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:

As in other books of the Bible we are told who it is that the book is written too.

Then in Colossians we are told that these same people, believers, saved, saints, christians are the elect.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

I agree that there are churches that don't tell the truth about God but it is not every one.

You're assuming one believes in the Bible. You can quote scriptures all day long as to whose the 'elect' and whose not. Religion is not indicative of morality. To compare those of Us who choose not to believe in the Bible or an organized religion to Ted Bundy is ridiculous. It's comparable to comparing You to the catholic priests who commit pedophilia, because, well, You both read the bible. Besides, Ted Bundy was a Mormon.


Peace. K*

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by ben91069
There is no right or wrong. Right makes ones ego huge and wrong makes one lose self esteem. Either one is contrary to God.

My wise friend Ben! That is so true--wow.

Ah, the all is WELL IN HELL Annie. Can the KEEPER OF THE PIT Annie come out and play.

While I agree with the spirit of the quote, and feel that in theory, right and wrong are just arbitrary, relative, concepts, which we create ... I don't live in theory, and in my world, right and wrong exist. In most cases, they appear to me to be quite easy to separate. Sometimes not, and sometimes I feel there are necessary evils. Actions which are decidedly wrong, but which I would do in certain situations. So much biblical quoting tells me that there are those who feel the bible is the only source of reference for choosing good or bad. It's not, imho. Most, if not all, world scriptures, lay out very similar, and very clear descriptions of the same thing. The XIV Dalai Lama, whom I admire greatly, put it well. He said, ' My religion is kindness. '
All holy books show the general way for the reader to discern right from wrong.
The most succinct of them, I've seen, is Wiccan. "An it harm none, do what thou wilt."

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by dnero6911
But it wasn't 'the snake' it was the eagle who gave the fruit to them to eat...
it was Sophia.. Not Satan, not Yalta, not Baoth... not evil, not bad..

The eagle and the snake are the same one...sometimes appearing as an eagle, sometimes a snake--sometimes as an owl or even a dove!!

This is because we don't see the whole picture--we won't see it until our minds can bear to understand.

The whole picture reveals just one creature: the Phoenix (which is the fiery winged serpent, the cockatrice, archaeopteryx, seraph, etc.)

The tribe of Dan. Venus/Haliel. The tree of the knowledge of Good AND Evil.

Duality is an illusion--unity is the only truth.

The signifigance of the snake and bird is the material and the spiritual

SNAKE/MATERIAL - BIRD/SPIRITUAL ... the fact it's eating itself just means it's 'union'... the depiction in most pictures has a tree between the two, .. many things have been between the two, also other depictions other than the bird and snake... The combining of the two(snake eating bird) is the same as the tree between the two,... it shows how the combination makes .. us.. the combination makes right and wrong, or the ability for it to exist. In some alchemy it also represents how to accomplish certain ends... like concerning the pheonix or amanita muscaria, (which looks like a pheonix when its in its last stage of life, which is redish/looks on fire, and also dies, and another arises in the same spot (spores).. coincidence, but interesting.
I know what your getting at The whole picture reveals just one creature: the Phoenix (which is the fiery winged serpent, the cockatrice, archaeopteryx, seraph, etc.)

as for the topic..

How about ... how do we tell what is wrong.

I think the only way to get somewhere with this is to have two teams each debate this and STICK to their side and have a mod judge the outcome..

1) What is solely wrong - Team 1
2) What is solely right - Team 2

Originally posted by ben91069

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Sun, which one do you live by - right or wrong

Here's what I believe.

I have no need for religion, only the truth.

Ted Bundy lived by truth - his own. Hopefully we don't become neighbors.

Originally posted by Demetre
. It's comparable to comparing You to the catholic priests who commit pedophilia, because, well, You both read the bible. Besides, Ted Bundy was a Mormon.


Peace. K*

Catholicism and mormonism are false and deceptive, and do not teach truth.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Demetre
. It's comparable to comparing You to the catholic priests who commit pedophilia, because, well, You both read the bible. Besides, Ted Bundy was a Mormon.
Peace. K*

Catholicism and mormonism are false and deceptive, and do not teach truth.

I don't agree with the wording, but if so, then all churches are also false, etc. If there are religions, churches, etc., that God likes, and others God doesn't like, and if only Christians will pass into heaven because of their belief in Jesus, then I will be shocked when I die. I can't see it. God's pet church, or favorite religion? Hindus, atheists, Buddhists, etc. are just as true and good as Jews, Muslims, and Protestants. Tribal, traditional systems like the Australian Aborigines spiritual beliefs, are just as Godly as someone who is agnostic and admits they dont't know what to think. God has over 6 billion faces, he needs them, cuz we're no two alike.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I don't agree with the wording, but if so, then all churches are also false, etc.

Why? There is truth and their is lying. It exists.

very true... very true...

here is the thing. why is lying wrong? and why is telling the truth right? why have we associated those with good and evil?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Sun, which one do you live by - right or wrong

Here's what I believe.

I have no need for religion, only the truth.

if you knew that one religion was absolute truth, would that change your lifestyle? would you look at life differently?

Truth is not something that can be taught or learned or structured...

Truth is what is left after all the rest of the distractions/disguises/delusions fall away. Truth is nakedness.

Unashamed nakedness - which implies it is something that happens as a process over time - unless you are Inanna.

Not all things that 'clothe' truth are necessarily lies - more like husks and hulls sometimes, that must fall off when aged and dried up, on their own.

What is a lie is when we convince ourselves that our current level of comfort is our absolute truth and it must not be altered. It becomes a double dog lie when we try to impose that stagnation on others at the expense of giving them respect and the right to be themselves according to the way God made THEM.

He made us each as we are - He never ever expected any of us to become stunt doubles for one another in the spiritual sense.

Catholicism and mormonism are false and deceptive, and do not teach truth.

this is indeed very true. if you read up on the doctrine they teach in contradicts the bible and degrades God down to the level of a human being.

my original question was "how do you tell right from wrong?"
we were to erase all of the current rules and start over, how would you tell right from wrong? i dont think everyone understands what im asking here. is there a standard on which we base our morals? or do we decide whats right and wrong based on majority opinion (vote)?

or do we look to a standard? check this out, if we follow the 10 commandments, or at least half of them, we would probably wouldnt have as many problems in world. lying, stealing, adultry (premarital sex, extramarital sex, rape, incest) murder, honoring our father and mothers... if we applied these things to our lives i think the world would be a whole lot better.

if we have nothing to base our morals on, then where do we stand? how do we know we are doing what is right?

Originally posted by Methuselah
is there a standard somewere to turn to for guidance and/or corretion? this is just a thought.

Jesus said, that All of the laws of the prophets are summed up with " Love one another "

Start with that as a core. How might the whole world be if that happened?
Then look at ego, greed, materialism, arrogance and lust.

When thinking on the issues, use extremes in terms of the conservative side and then the ultimate other extreme. Think of how one might be offended, or oppressed.

The lesser traveled road, the quieter voice.

Guidance comes, and pillars of right are formed. The roadmap is in doing it within yourself.

Forgiveness, compassion...think of all the things people would have to do for the world to turn around....and apply that to your step.

One day you will know more then you know now....

Peace

[edit on 25-3-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


my question was more directed towards the fact that evolutionary scientists are trying to push we all came from a dot that expanded into what we call our universe.
so if that were true, how do you determine what is right and what is wrong?

what standard do you base your rules/laws on if we were an accident?

reply to post by Methuselah


your argument runs on the assumption that all morality comes from "god"

...but that's kind of wrong

modern morality teaches us that beating your wife is wrong...
that treating your wife as subservient and not your equal is wrong

...yet these concepts aren't to be found in religious ideologies, they come from secular philosophy.

your argument runs on the assumption that all morality comes from "god"

...but that's kind of wrong

modern morality teaches us that beating your wife is wrong...
that treating your wife as subservient and not your equal is wrong

...yet these concepts aren't to be found in religious ideologies, they come from secular philosophy.

actually that is not true, if you read the bible you would know that it teaches this. and my argument is not based on anything, im asking how we determine what is right and wrong, what do we base it on? according to what you just implied, its based on majority opinion. but there have been many times in the past where the majority has been wrong.

and what im getting at, is if evolution is true and there is no God, then we have no way of deciding what is right and what is wrong. who cares if you think that me killing you is wrong, you are now dead. what if I dont agree with the law? what then? what if a lot of us dont agree with the law? because we have no standard there is no way to tell what is right from wrong, we can only go by what makes the most sense to us as human beings.

but if you believe that your brain is the product of chance over millions of years then how can you trust your thoughts and your reasoning processes? maybe you have a chemical in there backwards...

saying that we are the solution to our own problems... that is "wow!"
i feel sorry for people who think like that.

reply to post by Methuselah


since you'll ignore the long answer, i'll just go with the short one

secular moral philosophy.

that's all we need. it is inherently greater than the moral philosophy of the bible, which has been abandoned for a while.

secular moral philosophy doesn't tell you to treat your wife like a dog, homosexuals like murderers, rape victims like adulterers, and adulterers like murderers
unlike biblical morality, which does.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Where does 'secular moral philosophy' come from?


I am also somewhat interested in this topic. Let me rephrase my own question(s) to fits within this topic:

From an individual point of view, why is murder wrong, if it benefits you in some way?

Why is stealing wrong if no one sees you, and you can make use of what you steal?

Why is adultery wrong if the significant other never finds out, and it helps you 'cope with it' and enjoy yourself?

Why is it wrong to eat someone else, even if they agree to it?



Statistics would indicate that those who 'cheat' in societies are actually better of on the Natural Selection front (they get more, with giving less)- where did morality come from, then?