How do decide tell right and wrong?

Ive been pondering this topic for quite some time now. how do we as a society determine right from wrong? if we were to sit down in a huge room and make a list of what is right and wrong, how would we decide? is there a standard somewere to turn to for guidance and/or corretion? this is just a thought.

there are two options as far as I can see.

1. there is a God/creator and he makes the rules, we follow the rules and live a hard but rewarding life.

2. there isnt a God/creator at all and life is in the air, if it feels good, do it.

those are the only two options I see. anyone care to share their opinions?

Originally posted by Methuselah
Ive
1. there is a God/creator and he makes the rules, we follow the rules and live a hard but rewarding life.

2. there isnt a God/creator at all and life is in the air, if it feels good, do it.

There is a God, and through Christ we learn to live by God's laws.

But most people do not do that, the do this Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

This is why the world is messed up.

Originally posted by dbrandt
But most people do not do that, the do this Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

This is why the world is messed up.

You mean because even at this very moment, there is still no King ordained by God actually sitting on David's throne?

Since it is to be 'on earth as it is in Heaven' and the only throne filled at the present is the one on the other side?

I hope that's what you meant and that you meant it in all seriousness--because I know some day we might have one similar idea and for me, that would be a reason to rejoice.

Maybe today...

Originally posted by Methuselah
2. there isnt a God/creator at all and life is in the air, if it feels good, do it.

I think we all have certain ideas about morals and what's right and wrong. I don't know if there's a God or not, so I pretty much decide for myself what's 'right' and 'wrong'. But because I don't believe in God, that doesn't mean I go around hurting people because "it feels good". I actually think I have as high if not higher standards and morals than most people who do believe in God. I really don't see what the two have to do with each other.

If a person's belief in God is the only thing that's keeping them from doing "whatever feels good", then I feel very sorry for that person.

A belief in God isn't necessary for a person to have very high morals.

What we as a society determine to be right and wrong is what we use to make our laws. But individually, each person must decide that for themselves.

Originally posted by Methuselah
is there a standard somewere to turn to for guidance and/or correction?

This is what I would put in the 'suggestion box':

1. However you want people to treat you is how you should treat them.
   
2. If others do not treat you as you treated them, then you must forgive them without reserve--and continue in the manner listed in #1.
   
3. When unsure, take a moment and put yourself in the shoes of those who will be affected by your decision, and then do that which will not harm or hurt others, or yourself.
   
4. Priorities should always be as follows:
   
   
   
   1. people
      
   2. animals
      
   3. plants
      
   4. inanimate objects
      
   
   

Ooh, I like that, queenannie38!

As regards where I turn for guidance and/or correction... I turn within. I have all the knowledge I need and life itself teaches and corrects me.

Ditto! But I always like the things you say....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I actually think I have as high if not higher standards and morals than most people who do believe in God.

I'll back you up on that one, for sure! You are definitely a jewel in the desert, BH!

A belief in God isn't necessary for a person to have very high morals.

I never figured God to be too worried about 'morals' anyway! But that's just me.

What we as a society determine to be right and wrong is what we use to make our laws. But individually, each person must decide that for themselves.

I totally agree.

Unfortunately, we seem to be headed in the opposite direction (as a society): more and more legislation is constantly whittling away the possibility of ever raising a self-governing generation--responsible adults who demonstrate integrity and graciousness in all their activities. Obsessive legislation also undermines personal responsibility (as does religion--and even more so!) :shk:

Originally posted by Methuselah
Ive been pondering this topic for quite some time now. how do we as a society determine right from wrong? if we were to sit down in a huge room and make a list of what is right and wrong, how would we decide? is there a standard somewere to turn to for guidance and/or corretion? this is just a thought.

there are two options as far as I can see.

1. there is a God/creator and he makes the rules, we follow the rules and live a hard but rewarding life.

2. there isnt a God/creator at all and life is in the air, if it feels good, do it.

those are the only two options I see. anyone care to share their opinions?

In answer to your question..... there is absolutely no standard, everything is... The place to run for guidance is yourself.... right and wrong just like time is a personal affair, listen to your heart for Gods laws were written upon it, ...

wow, pretty interesting posts.
see the thing that gets me is the common answer I get from everyone.
"you have to decide whats right and wrong" or
"everyone knows whats right and wrong"
there are some other quotes that I failed to copy into this post but im sure you get the picture. now im not saying that going around and killing people feels good to you, but in all reality, to some peope it does. to some other people getting drunk to the point of no control is ok too.
but to me thats not cool and I think its actually very dangerous.
and I do agree with what one person said, we have to decide for ourselves because we are responsible for ourselves and no one else. but what I want to know is how do you know what you think is right? how are you so sure that your belief is correct.
if we all had to make that list of rights and wrongs and we had to decide for ourselves, where would that put the decisions that one would think is right when we all know that its wrong? for example: murder, we all know its wrong. but how did we decide that? how did we decide that drunk driving it wrong? how do we decide how to live life the "right" way? majority opinion, im sure, is not a very good one. there are many examples even from the bible that show that majority opinion can be wrong.

is there an absolute? are there any absolutes?

But in practice they are, imo. In many philosophical texts, by highly respected minds, it is written that good and evil are just arbitrary and relative constructs which do not actually exist as absolutes. I am not of that school of thought. I say that there is a line, and no matter how trivial the act, it can be placed on one or the other side of that line. Theft of a penny from one who will miss it is wrong, imo. It is not a great evil but hard to rationalize as being good. Holding a door open for someone is not deserving of sainthood, but it is good.
Wiccans learn likely my favorite verse on this subject. "An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
Rabbi Hillel stated another of my favorites, "Do not do unto others that which you would not have done unto you."
So, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. I wish we lived in theory, everything works there.
But we don't.
I say yes, there are absolute ethics. The harming of innocents is likely an evil act, no matter what the reason. Helping when and where needed is likely always good.
Many people see it otherwise, including a fellow I know who has his doctorate in philosophy and teaches at a local university. He is a brilliant man, but we don't agree on that one point. And thats okay with me.

.......and another thing. Seeking your own guidance is fine, but just remember that like the others have posted about treating others as yourself, this is the key.

Whether you believe in God or not, unless you judge your actions by how you percieve others should act, then you are a hypocrite and a liar to yourself.

Don't just make up your own rules, but become a learner of any situation on how you would like people to do you in everything. Of course, it isn't possible to live your life doing only the things that will make everyone happy, but so far as it is possible, please others the way you would like, and if it doesn't have a positive outcome, then that is okay as well. Nothing in life is guaranteed to work to anyone's advantage all the time.

Like my father used to tell me, "No one said life was fair......only a dumbarse thinks that......and I think I am looking at one behind the camera right now."

Originally posted by ben91069
.......and another thing. Seeking your own guidance is fine, but just remember that like the others have posted about treating others as yourself, this is the key.

Whether you believe in God or not, unless you judge your actions by how you percieve others should act, then you are a hypocrite and a liar to yourself.

Don't just make up your own rules, but become a learner of any situation on how you would like people to do you in everything. Of course, it isn't possible to live your life doing only the things that will make everyone happy, but so far as it is possible, please others the way you would like, and if it doesn't have a positive outcome, then that is okay as well. Nothing in life is guaranteed to work to anyone's advantage all the time.

Like my father used to tell me, "No one said life was fair......only a dumbarse thinks that......and I think I am looking at one behind the camera right now."

Ahh but yet again we come to a duality, I know some people who absolutely LOVE pain, and love being hit, or even punched or cut... so that could fail... the real thing to remember here is that things are not comfortable, your ideas make things sound comfortable, which isn't correct. What is true is that things happen regardless, which proves, regardless, things will continue to happen, stop making pretty patterns in the sand and look at the tidal wave... Everything just is, unfortunately you are quiet a flux, therefore, ground yourself in the realization that you are to make YOU happy, if you constantly have the idea of pleasing your neighbour you will torture yourself, remember "there is enough space for each star to pass unchallenged" in other words, to each their own, kick up the dust and move on and find like-minded people...

Originally posted by dnero6911
Ahh but yet again we come to a duality, I know some people who absolutely LOVE pain, and love being hit, or even punched or cut... so that could fail... the real thing to remember here is that things are not comfortable, your ideas make things sound comfortable, which isn't correct. What is true is that things happen regardless, which proves, regardless, things will continue to happen, stop making pretty patterns in the sand and look at the tidal wave... Everything just is, unfortunately you are quiet a flux, therefore, ground yourself in the realization that you are to make YOU happy, if you constantly have the idea of pleasing your neighbour you will torture yourself, remember "there is enough space for each star to pass unchallenged" in other words, to each their own, kick up the dust and move on and find like-minded people...

I wasn't saying to treat people exactly the way you want to be treated, because you are right, some people have notions that if they have misery, then others should be treated with misery as well. This is one of the mindsets that people think life revolves around them and whatever they like, others should prescribe to as well. This is not what I am saying. I am saying that one should retain their likes but learn enough social skills to identify with others enough to know how they would like to be treated on their terms. Most of us do this. For example, we all act ourselves, but probably act at least a little different in front of an elder or parent to an extent.

Probably it would be more accurate to say treat people as you would want to be treated in their shoes.

Originally posted by Methuselah

How do decide tell right and wrong?

anyone care to share their opinions?

if in doubt, then the best thing to do is be honest and simply apply the golden rule.

golden rule is this:

if you dont like a thing done to you, then dont do that thing to others, unless they happily allow it.

basically, dont tell others to do something that you dont do yourself.

its common sense. God does not like two faced people.





[edit on 4-7-2006 by mr conspiracy]

Originally posted by queenannie38

You mean because even at this very moment, there is still no King ordained by God actually sitting on David's throne?

Since it is to be 'on earth as it is in Heaven' and the only throne filled at the present is the one on the other side?

I agree absolutely with QueenieAnne here...

how do you know what is wrong or right?

I feel the answer lies in your gut. You get that feeling...

lol that probably doesnt help you at all! But it is generally a gut feeling, in your core of not what is socially right, but individually, morally right for you.

Originally posted by NJE777
how do you know what is wrong or right?
I feel the answer lies in your gut. You get that feeling...
lol that probably doesnt help you at all! But it is generally a gut feeling, in your core of not what is socially right, but individually, morally right for you.

I think that is a good bet, and I do it. If you feel in your heart, or gut, that something is right, or not right, I feel it usually is. I used to trust my brain over my heart, most of my life in fact. Now, if they are at odds, I go with my heart. It is so plain to me now. Moms know it, and a million sayings echo it. Valentines day supports the idea that the heart ain't just a pump. His heart wasn't in it, heartless, heart of gold, all my heart, heartache, etc.
Love lives in the heart, imo, not the mind, as most people 'think' it does. But I 'feel' it lives within the heart.
I'd rather be with people with big hearts, than big brains, any day.
Morals are culturally based, and change from place to place, but ethics, imo, are global.

Originally posted by NJE777
I feel the answer lies in your gut.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


The way to know what is right and wrong is through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

A person cannot trust their "gut" because we are tainted by sin. If someone is trusting their own self to know the difference, then that means they are relying on themself, what they can do and not trusting God. They are depending on what they do.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by NJE777
I feel the answer lies in your gut.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


The way to know what is right and wrong is through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

A person cannot trust their "gut" because we are tainted by sin. If someone is trusting their own self to know the difference, then that means they are relying on themself, what they can do and not trusting God. They are depending on what they do.

ahhh yes... BUT... Christ is a conciousness which can be obtained within us, as well as being the king of love.... It isn't as one would think, Jesus as a person... no.../ without knowing Christ, yes, we are depending on ourselves... but thru Christ Gods laws are within us, therefore With Christ in our life, our instincts are correct.

for dnero!

dbrandt--speak for yourself--I am not 'tainted' with sin--I was 'washed clean' at the age of 8.

Now, I'm not saying I'm not a 'sinner' since I am obviously a human being the same as everyone else. But I also believe that I was purchased in full--I serve God, not sin.

And God doesn't have dirty servants--they all wear white. I'm not ashamed of that--nor am I boasting. I just know who I serve and I know my conscience is clean--I trust my heart and if it convicts me (and sometimes it does!) then I know I've done wrong and do what I can to rectify it. Including admitting my mistake and regret for same--without excuse. But that's not sin--that's being worked over every day on the Potter's wheel.

Someday I'll be a 'pot!'

[edit on 7/8/2006 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by queenannie38


dbrandt--speak for yourself--I am not 'tainted' with sin--I was 'washed clean' at the age of 8.

Now, I'm not saying I'm not a 'sinner' since I am obviously a human being the same as everyone else. But I also believe that I was purchased in full--I serve God, not sin.

I placed my faith in Christ when I was 7 or 8 and so my sins past, present, and future were also forgiven.

And exactly as you have said, I still am capable of sin, but am forgiven when I do.

Someone who hasn't received Christ is still in his/her sin.