My baby was aborted on November 18,2005.

Being honest here. This reads like propaganda from one of the 'Birthing Centers" set up by Operation Rescue types.

Having been a clinic escort in my younger years, I am all to familiar with these types of scare / fear / intimidation tactics. Time and time again these stories do not withstand scrutiny.

While I cannot state for any degree of certainty that the above story is real or simply Operation Rescue propaganda I treat it with the usual degree of suspicion.

I agree with you . . . for the first time I read the thread and the lack of the poster's involvement I also question it. . .

But it does make good discussion topic. . .

Tarzan i feel for you mate but you cant go blaming yourself or feeling guilty for the loss of the child. I do believe that to offer a new life to the world is a gift that should be celebrated however remember it was not your decision to terminate this babys life.

After my first child my partner got pregnant again however due to her being a business woman and career mad she refused to have the second child and opted for an abortion saying "one child is enough". I went through agony for weeks whilst she waited for the appointment.

The night before i managed to make her see that giving life is a gift and should not be abused so she agreed and now we also have the most wonderful 2 year old daughter to accompany my 4 year old son. Looking at her now my partner gets upset remembering that one day she had comtemplated terminating our daughters life. This little girl is the sunshine in our lives. So i can slightly understand what you went through although i had a lucky breakthrough.

Dont be upset man things happen for a reason its called "fate" im sure one day in the future you will be settled with a new wife and will get that daughter you lost and by being a good father god will know your a good man. In fact he probably already does

Women get to choose. That is why.

Men get to pay. That's about the extent of it.


ps) Yeah, this whole story sounds funny to me.

Originally posted by thesaint

The night before i managed to make her see that giving life is a gift and should not be abused so she agreed and now we also have the most wonderful 2 year old daughter to accompany my 4 year old son.

That is very nice and very beautiful and I am glad that you was able to work with your life partner with a very desirable and agreeable result. . .

But I will have to be in the biological issue now and spoiled a littler bit . . .

Life is not a gift per say . . . is nothing more than the way in which the species propagate and preserve their dominance in nature . . .

But we as human tend to use feelings to make each and one of our offspring's to be the special one . . .

But reality is . . . that for one death birth is plenty that take the place when it comes to us human as a species.

BTW we are propagating an alarming rate as you know.

this is actually getting to be sickening to me, first off why would many of you rub this in the mans face. leaving blunt "its her choice" comments is pointless. Have some decency if his storys true why cant we give the political war a break for a second and just comfort him? Look at it from his perspective, not that I'm going to say its the truth because we all have our perspectives but look at it for his. Imagine you just had a newborn, now imagine your partner killed it out of the blue? How would you feel? No need to rub the fact that its legal in his face is there? and also if you would read his post, the abortion was not legally done. He specified that the abortion was done after when abortions are allowed in his state.

Originally posted by Scyman
I disagree with the popular idea her....blah blah blah a womens body she chooses. That is bogus, it is no longer just her body when the sperm meets the egg and a baby has begun formation, it is also now the body of TarzanBeta's son. They agreed to have sex, this is a risk when you engage in this act. Just becuase you liberals wanna have rapant sex without repercussions doesn't give you the accuse to kill a baby. A life. And dont tell me its not a baby until the third tri, thats ridiculous. Or that its not a baby until outside the womb, you dont tell your husband to come feel the fetus kicking. It is life.

This debate will go-on an on, so ill stop here, but Tarzan in my opnion here is the number 1 thing wrong with America and the world today. it saddens me to see how far weve sunk.

So, in your eyes, when you knock up a woman, you own her for at least the next 9 months?

Originally posted by iori_komei
Personally, I agree that consciousness develops as the brain does, and the only thing the "soul" does is become your non-corporeal body, when your corporeal one ceases to function.

Except for this very likely goes against this 600+ page study.

This isn't easy, nor nor does it have a defining line. (At point A it has consciousness.) Until there is an accepted line of consciousness, it can't be used to decide when to do abortions. The only largely accepted line of consciousness/life, happens to be conception, still.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
In the future, be careful where you place your privates ...

I agree with Grady.

I'm sorry that you have suffered the loss of a child. I'm sorry that your child died
in such a horrid fashion. The law states that a woman can kill her unborn child
and there isn't anything that the father can do about it. This fact alone should
make men VERY CAREFUL about whom they trust with their ... um ... lifegiving
bodily fluids. This is a good example of why sex should be kept within marriage
and not used for recreational purposes. It sounds old fashioned .. but sometimes
those old fashioned ideas really are the best ones.

Take your grief and use it for some good. Tell people - men in particular - about
your experience. Help them to understand what can happen and why they need
to be careful. You could save a lot of people pain .. and a lot of unborn children
painful deaths. This won't bring back your child, but it will help you heal and help
you to forgive yourself.

Originally posted by FredT
This reads like propaganda from one of the 'Birthing Centers" set up by Operation Rescue types.... these types of scare / fear / intimidation tactics. ...

What about the story makes you think that Fred? I didn't see any scare or fear
or intimidation in the story. What I saw was a fellow sad that his child died in
abortion. There are many people who feel that way after committing abortion or
having their child die in one. What did he say that made you think it was
intimidation (or scare or fear) .. because I just don't see it?

That's a sincere question ... I don't see it.

Everybody has their own reaction to abortion. A lot of women feel bad about it afterwards because nobody tells them that all the excellent "mommy" hormones they're pumping out during pregnancy will stop, most likely leaving them in a depression. That's basic physiology and unscrupulous religious types will attempt to label it as "guilt."

It's interesting how invested people get in other people's reproductive activities. Half the magazines on the stands in the supermarket have blaring headlines about this or that celebrity sow getting knocked up. People (women) apparently have to know everything about every other woman's baby-making activities.

It's interesting because human reproduction is so mundane. It happens a bit less frequently than people going to the bathroom, but as far as basic biology is concerned, it's essentially an equivalent function. Our greasy, bloody way of continuing our DNA. So what? Another human being is born. Big deal.

If I think about it a bit, since I don't intend on becoming involved with reproduction, I won't ever have to deal with abortion. And since there is no immediate threat of the human species becoming extinct, I have no real reason to become involved or interested in anyone else's reproductive activities.

Go ahead an have an abortion. Fine by me! There are other much cheaper and less invasive methods of preventing birth, but I know how people like to procrastinate. At least your annoying baby won't be crying on the airplane and keeping me awake. Or have the stupid baby, if you can afford to take care of it so I don't have to support you with my tax money.

All I ask is that these horny women and men first take advantage of all the other safe, effective and inexpensive contraceptive methods out there, and seriously think about not having babies in the first place. Cute little babies eventually grow up to be thick, smelly adults who cut you off on the freeway or forget to flush in public restrooms. Do we really need any more of those around?

I agree too. be careful where you place it or use preserv.

We are mammals after all, a developed animal but still an animal. My point is maybe it was better for your baby to get aborted. Women and men are vehiculated by hormones and tons of instinctives behavior including reproduction. The desired to have sex for a men is strickly hormonal and the same desired is for women to have babies. I dont wanna be too personnal on this but ive always think some women have the feeling "oh i want a new challenge lets have a baby" not knowing its her hormones talking insted of his head just like when a guy just want to have sex with anyone willing too.
Its not a political isssue or marital status i think. and believe me as a feeling not beeing wanted by his parents is probebly the worst feeling ever.

Originally posted by eagle eye
The desire to have sex for a men is strickly hormonal and the same desired is for women to have babies. I dont wanna be too personnal on this but ive always think some women have the feeling "oh i want a new challenge lets have a baby" not knowing its her hormones talking insted of his head just like when a guy just want to have sex with anyone willing to.

I was reading an short interview with the actor Matt Dillon somewhere last week and he mentioned something like that. He said that basically "love" is just God's way of tricking you into wanting to procreate, because when you're in love that's what you think about and want to do. But if you fall out of love, that all goes away.

He's basically right. We're animals, plain and simple. We have a biological drive to procreate, which is ecouraged by a very powerful mix of chemicals in your body and social pressure from your family and friends. It's a filthy, messy, animal business that people attach a lot of moral, ethical and religious significance to because it's so powerful. We like to make it grander and more important than it really is.

It's just another human animal to add to the 6 billion already on the planet. One baby (or potential baby) living or dying is no more or less important than any of the other 100,000 human animals being born or dying on any given day. A baby gets aborted. Boo-hoo. What about the other 50,000 people, who used to be babies, who died from old age or disease or accidents that same day? Where's their "boo-hoo?" Eh, to hell with them. Who cares? The whole business of birth and life and death is just so unbelievably common and banal it's a wonder we pay it any attention at all.

Maybe it was better the child was aborted? He wanted the child, was willing to care for it as a father should. So she didn't want the child, he did...this is the hardest part of the whole issue...the womans right is undeniable, what about the fathers rights? To not even tell him, until after the abortion? That is so wrong as to be virtually unforgivable.

I have no answers to the issue of mother's rights as oppossed to the fathers. Anything I have to say are mere platitudes and not very useful. I suppose the issue comes down to communicating with each other. Platitudes.

They can transfer babies into test tubes if the woman doesn't want it, right? Wouldn't the test tube give the baby all it needs to develop? I know my terminology sounds elementary, but I think I read about something like this one time, I'm just trying to pick up on it...

I don't know wat to say, u have my sympathy, its the men who want there girlfriend to abort who are negating there responsibilities as a man. U seem like a good guy and a bigger man then most to bring this disscusion to the table.The issue here is clearly Roe Vs Wade as well as if states have the right to pass there own laws concerning abortion. The nation should ban abortion except in the case of the mother being at risk, rape and incest, and this should still warrent a disscusion of abortion being ethical in these cases as well how ever it would be a start.

Sorry for your loss.

I think the Women gets the final choice whether they have the baby or not. However the man should have a say in it. I also think the man pay women thing is BS. Why should only the Male pay nearly ALL his money while the Women can kick her feat up and sit there?

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Women get to choose. That is why.

Men get to pay. That's about the extent of it.

ps) Yeah, this whole story sounds funny to me.

Why does the man have to pay for something for her body? If it is only her choice, then why should he have to pay.

Looks like Logic makes sence again! Sorry, but I don't understand the thinking of some people. I am only 17 and I am constantly amazed.

Oh and don't call me ignorant because I already know that's what you're thinking.

I didn't realize I got any response... I stayed away for a while because I was very busy. I appreciate the support, the criticism, and even the frank.
I would like to point out though...
anyone who was ignorant enough to simply read my story... and then not check other threads I have been to and confirm that I am an actual individual and not a fanatic making up junk - eat more fruits and veggies. IT's amazing how much more potential for wisdom the brain has when it actually receives nutrients.
I understand the woman's point of view. Until recently I have not felt sorry for Sabrina in the least - mainly because the matter could have at the very least been brought to my attention in a format where it could have been a discussion rather than an ultimatum.
As an update, I still haven't found someone to be with, but I also have given up sexual promiscuity and I am well on my way to a healthier mind. I am happy and blessed. With the exception of my dreams always being very lucid and lasting sometimes up to an hour after my wake, I am mentally stablished.
I am finally back at the point I was before the mess. God has turned this circumstance into a blessing for me - as my eyes have been peeled open, my heart is open, my spirit is free -- I'm making music.
I am Released.

I do not have words to help you recover from the cold-hearted and selfish murder of your child. Sadly, In America, it is the woman's "Prerogative" to engage in such selfishness and to commit such heinous crimes against someone so innocent and helpless. You are NOT complicit in this sensless murder, Tarzan, and should not be left to bear the bruden. A young life was taken without your consent and the law permitted it. Seek solice in knowing that it is not you, nor I, nor others you may come across who will ultimately pass judgement on such an atrocious act, but God alone. One day she will stand before her Maker in judgement of her life and she will have to look at that child that she so ruthlessly and selishly murdered and have to explain her actions - an punishment wilol be certain!

This whole notion about it being a woman's body and therefore their right to choose is complete CRAP! There are consequences to our actions and it is time that people recognize a sense of responsibility and maturity for the things that they do. To me there is nothing more aggregious or evil than taking the gift of life that God has bestowed upon us. A day of reckoning will be at hand and you will not be it's recipient! Rest assured Tarzan.

Originally posted by thematrix
So, in your eyes, when you knock up a woman, you own her for at least the next 9 months?

What a pathetic non-sequitur! I'm not sure what sense of warped logic you used to employ that bit of fallacious reasoning, but you should be completely ashamed of yoruself! Nowhere in that post does the author even imply as much.