What is wrong with us Americans these days???

Originally posted by St Udio
~~

maybe you should visit more often- a college campus coffee-shop or
wi-fi hotspot where engaged people tend to congregate...

besides, a lot of those supposedly dumb people, are not as dumb as you think

No all young college people that are not influenced by bias professors in a bias class environment are not dumb.

They are actually free thinkers and entrepreneurs.

I have a daughter in her 5 year in colleague and is amazing how her onces nurtured narrow minded family friends have changed onces away from the grasp of their narrow minded family.

What happen with the free thinking and free spirit onces they finish colleague and go back home?

They reversed to become a clone of their narrow minded parents that discourage the same free thinking and free spirit that they have found in the environment away from home.

My daughter said to me . . . Mom they talk about how they want to change the world but at the end they will be just like the rest.

Yes nurturing could be the right world, is hard to brake from what is so easy to maintain and so familiar.

To change a trend it has to start with the young because the old already have set their minds to a comfortable stage.

Originally posted by masterp
One of the long term effects of capitalism is lower education quality, which brings and breeds ignorance. The quality of education is lowered because public education is left unattended and unfunded.

Another long term effect of capitalism is the materialistic culture which says "acquire as many materials as possible - it is only those that count". Initially people are willing to obey laws, but soon enough they realize that the big opportunities to get really rich and "enjoy life" is scams and tricks...and then you have Enron.

Of course the situation is equally bad in most countries, with varying degree.

REPLY: Well, lets see; in less than 250 years Capitolism has
1- raised the baseline of human existance above that of anything ever tried;

2- Corporate profits have paid for the research resulting in the doubling of our life span, and that of much of the world;

3- America feeds it's own people, and that of 1/3 of the rest of the world;

4- Allowed us to help provide freedom, and freedom of choice, to well over a billion people;

There's more, but WAY too much to list.

".... The quality of education is lowered because public education is left unattended and unfunded.

REPLY: America used to be number one in education, until the start of the department of education, and all the educational unions. The average per-child cost of public education now exceeds $10,000.00 per student, yet many home schoolers can give their kids a better education for less than $200 per year. Money and class size is not the problem.

I agree that the schools aren't failing..... at least not in what their aims are; they're succeeding. The quality of our teachers in K thru 12 is dismall at best, and the colleges are run by ex-hippies who dislike America and the ideas of the founders; both are run by the left, who WANT our population to depend on government.

I didn't mean to say that only Americans do this, it is just I have more personal experience with America since I live here. I just feel incredibly alone when I talk about what is going on in the world.

When I went to England it was basically the same. America and England are a lot a like. I just truly feel that "education is liberation". That is why I do not believe that we can win against terrorism by fighting. And it really bothers me when people know absolutely nothing about the world, when they have all the resources to.

Again, most of the West (I changed the name) just do not care.

Face it, it's a video game world and what the kids don't learn on tv they certainly pick up subliminally (or literally) on the shoot 'em up, run 'em down vids they almost all have access to these days. Even Mario, Luigi, and Link had to kill or be killed.

Mine is no different, except that he's a history/poli-sci major and after two years of $24k/year college, he better damn well know what's going on in the world.

How or why he took an interest in such things still isn't quite clear to me, although he has lived in some diverse countries while I was in the military. Yet I didn't think he was old enough then to know.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: Well, lets see; in less than 250 years Capitolism has
1- raised the baseline of human existance above that of anything ever tried;

Even if that were true, just because a line has been raised it doesnt mean it cant be raised any more. Ever hear of Watchdogs? A group of people charged with keeping an eye on corporations, this is to make sure they dont rip us off too much.

2- Corporate profits have paid for the research resulting in the doubling of our life span, and that of much of the world;

Our lives have 'doubled' because we arnt being worked to death in factories and mines anymore. Corporations are bound by law to make a profit, not to benefit the people. Research directed by corporations are designed to generate profit not scientifc breakthroughs (unless profit can be made). Look at the car industry, you dont see them selling cars with all the latest safety features, no, they will release them in their own good time with 'the next modle' in order to maximise profit.

3- America feeds it's own people, and that of 1/3 of the rest of the world;

Capitalism capitalises on the facts that humans need food, water and a place to live (heat and light). It capitalises on our weaknesses and desires, even the ones we dont even know about. Recall the Great Depression of your country... did men stop having the ability to work? Did America not produce food? Was there not still work to be done? Why did so many starve within this great system?

4- Allowed us to help provide freedom, and freedom of choice, to well over a billion people;

That choice and freedom is an illusion. So often big corps swallow up that choice, your choice is based upon what is handed to you. There is no freedom within this system, only an illusion of one, so often I still here kids shout at each other, "It's a free country you know!" I laugh, free? Free to climb up the corporate ladder if youre psychotic enough!

psyopswatcher

My children were military brats and one thing that they always had over the regular children in civilian life was that they knew more about the world and been in so many different places and with many people from different cultures that made them stand over the rest.

Military DODs schools have one of the best educations that government can afford.

Compared with public schools.

But many private schools of high quality are also at the top.

I am very proud and satisfied the way my children related to life, culture and the rest of the world.

At least they can point to a country in a map and know the name of it.

My daughter major in biology with now doing pratice on cell biology, why she did it . . . she said she wants to help find cures to help heal the world.

Originally posted by masterp
One of the long term effects of capitalism is lower education quality, which brings and breeds ignorance. The quality of education is lowered because public education is left unattended and unfunded.

Regardless of what may or may not be true with respect to the "horrible" state of the American Citizenry, the above statement is just about as ridiculous as they come!

Any "lowered" quality of education in this country is certainly not due to the system being left unattended and unfunded. If the assertion that the quality of public education has lessened over the years, then the obvious response is "compared to what?"

If you compare the state of public education in America today to the state of public education in America, say, 50 years ago, this trend of lessening quality becomes somewhat obvious. However, a similar comparison of funding levels for public education during these same two eras reveals that funding has increased at a rate of approximately 10 times inflation over the same period!

It's just a complete cop out to claim that the problem is in the funding. And to attribute such a miserable failure to Capitalism is pure propagandist nonsense/disinformation. The fact is, there are a multitude of causes, funding not being among them, the most prominent of which is the breakdown of discipline that has been witnessed by the system and that originates in the home life of the student. Along with this problem, another major cause is the mushrooming bureacracy in the school system itself, largely caused and maintained by the ridiculous demands by (and idiotic concessions to) the various unions of employees involved - primarily the teacher's unions. Is nobody bothered at all by the unquestionable fact that the majority of funding granted to the public school system is spent on administrative costs and administrativesalaries, and not on school buildings, teachers or teaching materials?

However, let us blame this Socialistic system on Capitalism? What a load of tripe. If Capitalism was actually allowed into the sytem of school organization, the "problem" would be solved. Already most charter schools, which operate on as little as one-third of the funding of the regular State-sponsored public schools, are matriculating American students with test scores tens of percentiles higher than their public school "peers."

The blank check that Public Education receives every year, with no accountability - even with the No Child Left Behind Act (imagine an emloyee complaining that he might be fired if he doesn't do his job and you have imagined 90% of the complaints that teachers have about NCLB) is one of the major causes of the problem. The check itself, that is, and not the amount that it's written for.

Harte

Dae

You got my vote this month, I could not have expressed that better than you have done.

Way to go.

Government funded research control what its to be research and how far.

I know my daughter's research group is funded by the government and everything they do is limited by government rules and regulations.

From my perspective, I feel it is a simple problem that is found in Canada as well.

WE ARE ALL TOO DAMM LAZY.

We are "told" everything we need to know.

We not longer have the comprehension on HOW TO LEARN, and must rely on being told what these things are. Individualistic Thought is not encouraged. It's the "Collective" that is promoted.

But Teaching someone HOW TO LEARN, stops this in it's tracks.

When this is addressed, I am sure, we all will be better off.

Ciao

Shane





[edit on 25-6-2006 by Shane]

this is a great thread, and i defintely like the way someone described the way capitalism is the cause of alot of americans "ignorance" to other issues in the world today cause they are too focused on materialism, in fairness i would go easier on parents raising children , (not everyone has the luxury to sit around and critically think all day long) while i personally do have time, i think it is CRUCIAL to take a step back and have everyone take a look at there BELEIFS and EXPECTATIONS about life

and by that i mean were we raised to beleive or think that we could enjoy endless happiness or constant positive experinces in life. or did we expect that everything would just fall into place in the world. Well those who are upset i can see your point but part of the confusion and anger that we feel about others and the way they act and what they choose to care about can be ignorant in our own way. without the constant emotion of love those who are aiming to enjoy eternal happpiness are destined to be upset as your brains built in negative feedback controller (hedonistic treadmill) is programmed to enjoy only so much happiness, unless you find ways to set up the "games" in life in a more progressive way, otherwise u may find yourself doing things u can't understand in life becasue you are trying to make the game or goal more or a challenge to yourself unknowingly, because if u seem to be winnnig or acheiveng your perceived goal over and over it is not a challenge anymore, and you either got to change the goal or look at it from a better perspective and make sure you have a balance in life or the cruel games in life can become sick and sabotage just make things a challenge again.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by cpdaman]

[edit on 25-6-2006 by cpdaman]

Frankly, if it comes down to a choice between fascist Islam and fascist America, I'll take the Yanks.

That said, culturally America is a very young country characterized by the notion that the world began in 1776. A long tradition of insular thinking combined with knee-jerk patriotism has disquised the facts of American foriegn policy from its own people for the past 60 years. Namely to maintain the disparity of 20% of the world's population utilizing 80% of the world's resources.

The IMF is known around other parts of the world as the International Misery Fund, since privatization has benefitted only wealthy representatives of Western banks. The charity that America extends pales in comparison with the number of malevolent dictators it has propped up willing to play into their bid for economic global empire.

The American people are altruistic and kind-hearted people, it doesn't serve their notions of patriotism to stare these incongruent truths in the eye. Capitalism is fine in itself, but the founding fathers stated the principle role of government was to regulate big business with the appropriate checks and balances in order to prevent the people of America from becoming as oppreessed by big money as the people in the countries from which Americans fled.

Now we (I include Canada) live in a farmed corporate culture, where our desires, tastes, even the measure of our worth is dictated by what we can afford to buy. Many people live in needless shame of the wealth they will never accumulate, but are daily told is free for them to take. Only 2% of American's will ever reach the top percentile, but self-responsibility has been perverted to represent personal failure in a skewed economic system.

There's a great deal of despair underneath the abrasive and defensive anger that parades as American culture. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the inarticulate diversion of the soul. Everyone deserves comfort, but at what price.

The answer to why america is the way it is lies in the little cartoon segement in the movie,Bowling for Columbine. IMO,that pretty much sums it all up right there.If you havent seen it i suggest giving it a watch. Makes you really question why we are the way we are.


Found the link,here ya go. youtube.com...


[edit on 25-6-2006 by spanishcaravan]

Ask yourself: Given a choice between trusting two sources, one who looks to further his own interests and fortune and admits it, and one who claiming a selfless, unbiased pursuit of the truth and justice and speaking the truth to power, who would you choose? The former, not the latter in all cases, I would hope.

I read the comments of Leninist lunatics with elaborate conspiracy theories and an unthinking hatred of "corporations" and think: these people are truly retarded.

No thinking person accepts every thing he his told, but few outside the totally discredited socialist elites would deny that you have a better standard of living and "free speech" rights in countries that adhere to "capitalist" principles than socialist.

i

Originally posted by clearwater
Frankly, if it comes down to a choice between fascist Islam and fascist America, I'll take the Yanks.

That said, culturally America is a very young country characterized by the notion that the world began in 1776. A long tradition of insular thinking combined with knee-jerk patriotism has disquised the facts of American foriegn policy from its own people for the past 60 years. Namely to maintain the disparity of 20% of the world's population utilizing 80% of the world's resources.

The IMF is known around other parts of the world as the International Misery Fund, since privatization has benefitted only wealthy representatives of Western banks. The charity that America extends pales in comparison with the number of malevolent dictators it has propped up willing to play into their bid for economic global empire.

The American people are altruistic and kind-hearted people, it doesn't serve their notions of patriotism to stare these incongruent truths in the eye. Capitalism is fine in itself, but the founding fathers stated the principle role of government was to regulate big business with the appropriate checks and balances in order to prevent the people of America from becoming as oppreessed by big money as the people in the countries from which Americans fled.

Now we (I include Canada) live in a farmed corporate culture, where our desires, tastes, even the measure of our worth is dictated by what we can afford to buy. Many people live in needless shame of the wealth they will never accumulate, but are daily told is free for them to take. Only 2% of American's will ever reach the top percentile, but self-responsibility has been perverted to represent personal failure in a skewed economic system.

There's a great deal of despair underneath the abrasive and defensive anger that parades as American culture. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the inarticulate diversion of the soul. Everyone deserves comfort, but at what price.

Your whole post is wonderful. Most of America has no idea that the CIA and the military have set up many of these dictators, and aided these terrorist organizations to use towards their own ends. They just swim in an ocean of ignorance, and believe America is the best and most generous nation in the world, with the best government in history. Not that the rest of the world is so much better! But that doesn't mean we are perfect by any near means.

I know I sound very anti-American, but I love my country just totally hate the ignorance that has become denser. We cannot expect world peace if countries just go around manipulating the world.

I went on an AOL message board, and posted that, "we cannot pull troops from Iraq all together because a humanitarian crisis will result which will make Rwanda and Sudan look like a field day", meaning genocides and full out civil war. The responses?

A lot of hate. Being called a conservative fascist nazi (I am 95% liberal), and saying that we shouldn't care about those people because they hate us. I am like, these people are innocent people who don't deserve to be caught in a humanitarian crisis because America toppled their government. More hate, and telling me to leave the country lol.

I am just so perplexed. Even Hillary Clinton was booed off stage because she said we must stay in Iraq. It isn't for BUSH, it is because we need to keep the peace for the innocents. I heard though that America built a HUGE embassy in iraq and something like 13 permanent military bases, which hints that we won't be leaving soon.

This isn't a time to really talk about it. But I seriously am starting to think that Bush attacked Iraq so we can have hands and ears and eyes in the middle of the Middle East. And so we can control oil for America so China or Russia doesn't use it against the US. Many people don't know the precarious situation we are all in right now.

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
The answer to why america is the way it is lies in the little cartoon segement

Oh yes I like that

Okay Folks Here it is in a nutshell. Its not only Americans, its PEOPLE. From years of observation I have found that the little item below is true!

"The Sheep Analogy".

Most of the people in the world are sheep...

Then you have the Shepherds, whose job it is to watch over the sheep. Occasionally they have to fleece the sheep to make themselves a warm coat...

Then you have the Dogs, whose job it is to nip at the feet of the sheep and keep them in line...

Then you have the Wolves, who prey on the sheep that fall off the path...

Then you have the Rams, whose only purpose in life is to ummm jump on all the sheep...

The Catholics know this, they have been watching over their flock for centuries...
Any "good" Dictator knows this...
I am sure our government knows this...

Only question to ask is "Which one of the above are you?"


Sigh... couldn't resist... its to serious in here... need a little comic relief

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
The answer to why america is the way it is lies in the little cartoon segement

Oh yes I like that

Okay Folks Here it is in a nutshell. Its not only Americans, its PEOPLE. From years of observation I have found that the little item below is true!

I agree it is people. I was just bringing up America because I have been experiencing personal bouts of morbid ignorance.

I got this article which is extremely interesting about Iraq:

news.aol.com...

It is on AOL but writted by the AP, so hopefully it can be read. I tried to find it on another news source./ Basically it says Saddam says America needs his help to quench the insurgents and Iran's ambitions. I think he may be right...

im 23, and all my life i have tried my best to stay on top of whats going on in the world. its not that i really had to try hard i am genuinely interested in it. i remember watching on cnn when the soviet union fell, i remember the gulf war, i remember the chaos in the balkans in the mid 90s. i am young, but i do consider myself pretty knowledgeable on geo-politics. however, people my age in this country, in general, are RETARDED. they know nothing about the world, all they know is reality tv [which i find funny because no one cares about the REAL reality tv ie. the news] ipods, myspace, and making sure mommy and daddy buy them a nice new car. its sickening. and what you said about the girl you know who was like "sudans a country right?" well im really sorry if i sound sexist but girls are REALLY dumb when it comes to whats going on in the world. as long as you are a pretty girl you dont need to think, its just the way the world works. and it works great until you have to actually talk to them. people in general ARE ignorant in this country. as long as we have our beloved possesions we could care less that the world is going to #. who cares 2500 soldiers have died for nothing, who cares more countrys that hate us are acquiring nuclear weapons technology, who cares that gas prices are going through the roof, i just got my new 50 inch plasma tv and an 07 tahoe. i could be wrong, but it seems like to me people in other countries have a better grasp of whats going on in the world than we do. i love my country, i love our freedoms, but sometimes i REALLY hate americans.

I will tell you what makes me sick about americans now days.
I am American, and I have to say we are in, imo, a state of emergency. There is absolutly no patriotism in most americans now. They say we shouldn't be in Iraq. well I have friends in iraq and they say what the news shows insnt reality over there. There are many iraqi citizens that are scared to death that we will pull out. SCARED TO DEATH! Most over there are thankful we are there. Most people over here complain about the amount of lives lost. roughly 22,000, yet fail to realize that this is the fewest amount of casulties we have ever had in a war, for the length. Not to mention there are more murders in the USA in 1 day than what has died in 3 years in iraq. Just like the song goes, Have you forgotten why we are in a war against terrorism? Do you remeber how you felt the day the towers, and the pentagon was hit with planes?
It's time as TRUE AMERICANS that we grow up a bit, show support instead of bitc*ing all the time. Know the true facts before blowing off at the mouths, you all listen to cnn and they tell you the things that you dont want to hear, but they dont tell you the good that has come from it. That goes for all news networks. Thank you. BTW we are talking about age. I am 22 and know more about it than most 40 year olds.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by l0rds0fcha0s]

I heard 'somewhere', so I don't know if this it true, that the vast majority of American's don't even have a passport, let alone having travelled abroad. A one of those cliches we sometimes get over here about America is that everything is so damn big. I wonder if, to a lot of Americans, the world really does end at their borders.

Throughout America's history, has the 'average Joe/Josef/Jesus' etc. actually had much contact with the outside world. A lot of other nations, particularly those of Europe, have histories in which expansion and contact with other nations was, and is, part of the culture by virtue of empire and their close proximity to one another.

I still find it strange to think that America is still a rather young nation...upstart that she is, lol. Maybe as America matures further, and people are exposed to more issues from further afield that should concern them, the populace will begin to become more informed. It must be noted that the internet has the potential to catalyse such an enlightenment, if you will, given that it is unique in the range and availability of material it presents.

I must admit that a great number of my friends are quite clued up and opinionated when it comes to current affairs...not that it gets us anywhere mind, but we talk a good game.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

I don't know a single American that has a passport. Up until last year, I at 19 years old thought most of Africa and South America was jungleland occupied by huts and wild animals. When I found myself talking to someone online from Africa, I was confused - how could there be internet access in a jungle where people have no electricity?

As crazy as it sounds, I'm not the only one.