OK, our own government did it. Now what do we do?

I think we have, as a whole, become wimps. We're too comfy, complacent, and dependent. Myself included.

....We're quickly loosing our credibility in the world and a large number of Americans don't seem to care.

I think we have, as a whole, become wimps. We're too comfy, complacent, and dependent. Myself included.

....We're quickly loosing our credibility in the world and a large number of Americans don't seem to care.

This is sad to hear but it is quite true... Everyone says they are upset about it and want to do something about it, but in the end everyone sits on their arse complaining about the gov and whats wrong in the world.

If every last one of you conspiracy nuts who believed in 9/11 showed up at the White House there would be quite a few newspapers carrying that story. But instead you all just curse the Gov. because apparently you all have absolute knowledge of the subject and are 100% certain that the Gov. committed this atrocity. This site shouldnt even deal with anything else other then 9/11 because everything in one way or another seems to get linked back up to the conspiracy fan bois screaming at people who dont agree with them.

I find it some what ironic that the majority of Americans makes fun of the French by stating that they are cowards and wimps etc. However in reality the French have more balls then the majority of Americans do. They have gone through multiple revolutions/movements and have nationwide protests that reach the foot step of the president almost on an annual basis!

Take a lesson from the French, quit complaining and actually do something.


Oh and by the way.. if there was proof without of a shadow of a doubt then why is it still considered a conspiracy theory?

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Just because a majority of ATSers think that the government was involved doesn't mean a majority of Americans do. In fact, the average American thinks the idea is absurd and only believed by kooks and those on the fringes of sanity.

orly?

A 2004 Zogby International poll of New Yorkers, asking of fore-knowledge of 9/11, and the 9/11 Commission:

On the eve of a Republican National Convention invoking 9/11 symbols, sound bytes and imagery, half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according to the poll conducted by Zogby International.
[...]
Less than two in five (36%) believe that the 9/11 Commission had "answered all the important questions about what actually happened on September 11th," and two in three (66%) New Yorkers (and 56.2% overall) called for another full investigation of the "still unanswered questions" by Congress or Elliot Spitzer, New York's Attorney General.

Source.

A 2006 Zogby International nation-wide poll, asking of a 9/11 cover-up or need to investigate government complicity in the attacks:

Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11
Investigation
[...]
Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a
cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an
International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including
whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped
facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure).

Source.

Consider that, including the unsure votes, about 55% of Americans are apparently at least seriously entertaining the idea that there was a cover-up, and the great majority of those have already made up their minds in favor of there indeed having been a cover-up (the 45% of the total).

Note that these are more scientific polls; non-scientific polls, like a couple CNN polls, show closer to 90% believing the government was directly complicit. At least one of these Zogby polls (the second) was done by telephone, interviewing a very large sample of US residents.


I would say that's a far cry from us "conspiracy theorists" being on the "fringes of sanity".

I have yet to see any proof that changed my mind and I doubt I will...although I've been open to and have read all submissions thus far.

Good, and keep reading. I would recommend checking out older, broader posts. Newer ones seem to be less broad and less enthusiastically argued from either side (we get tired ;().

[edit on 23-6-2006 by bsbray11]

If every last one of you conspiracy nuts who believed in 9/11 showed up at the White House there would be quite a few newspapers carrying that story.

Very true but we need a leader. If you have a charismatic leader whether he be insane or not, he would be able to motivate us.

I think we are probably all just in need of a good leader to rally around

And we need a campaign fundraiser. Its afully expensive to bring all our ranks to Washington DC from around the world. Oh you want us to pay our own way? ummm.... errrr... catch me next time, I'm a little short right now

Originally posted by bsbray11
orly?

Yarly

Good, and keep reading. I would recommend checking out older, broader posts. Newer ones seem to be less broad and less enthusiastically argued from either side (we get tired ;().

Do you not realize those polls you listed do not say anything other then that the American people think the Gov is covering up 9/11 and that their is more to what we are being told. No where in these polls does it say "84% of Americans think their own government committed 9/11"

The funny thing is as soon as I saw the original person post that the majority of Americans don’t believe the Gov committed this crime, I predicted there was going to be someone who pulled up some polls on Americans saying that there is more to 9/11 then what the Gov is telling us. Then take these polls and read to much into them and then use them to their advantage to make their point. Congratulations you have officially made my prediction come true. .

Now bow down before me since it has been proven I am a Prophet. Here is another prediction to all of those who do not believe in me.

Prediction:
I will eat a type of meat in the next 24 hours. When this happens my prophecies will be proven to be true and accurate 'without a shadow of doubt'

I wonder if its still possible to search out old radio broadcasts of 9/11 reports. I was on my way to work in the car when it happened I heard the announcer say "one of the planes was shot down" Is there a way to go through raddio broadcast like you can newspaper archives?

Originally posted by zorgon

Very true but we need a leader. If you have a charismatic leader whether he be insane or not, he would be able to motivate us.

I think we are probably all just in need of a good leader to rally around

And we need a campaign fundraiser. Its afully expensive to bring all our ranks to Washington DC from around the world. Oh you want us to pay our own way? ummm.... errrr... catch me next time, I'm a little short right now

Im sure if one of the well respected mods came forward and said "lets go to washington!" then a fair amount of people would follow. Shoot you can even get Alex Jones to do it since he is so passionate about his topics(very charismatic man in my opinion just a bit touched "

As for funds... Ok what makes you think you need funds to start a revolution? Dont you realize that if there is a REAL revolution took place the currency in this country would not mean anything. Why? Because our money is the currency of the current Goverment. You think we would really be able to go buy things with worthless paper?

The country would easily turn into a bartering nation for a bit and then convert to a metal currency such as silver,gold etc.

And you talk about paying your own way... well i did state earlier that the French have had multiple movements and protests through out these past few centuries. Do you really think all of the protestors actually have money? Shoot thats probably one of the reasons why they are protesting .

Seriously if you all are talking about confronting the Gov. then put up or shutup. You do not need any funds to do this. You just need to be organized with a leader as you stated before.

I personally dont think this country is that bad which is why i will not be joining you at the White House(even though I do believe there is more to the eye then what is being shown to us about 9/11) i but chances are none of you are going their anyway.

I would much rather have a tragedy or two every decade or so instead of having to go through what the palistinians are going through with being bombed on the beach and what not.(and no i am not anti-sematic, its just been proven multiple times that israel was created from stealing the land right under the palistinians noses)

Look at all the other countrys that have it much worse then us. Here lets take a look at the BBC and look at their news articles and see what is giong on in the world.

Oh Nepal is going through a revolution, Oh and so is Somalia yet again, oh and Iraq is still trying to become its own independent country that can defend itself. Palestein is trying to keep what little land they have (so little you dont even see palestein on a map! it just says the territories name! such as "Gaza Strip")

These are front page articles within the last week!

You should be grateful that you live in a nation that as of right now is not going through a large revolution such as the countries listed above. You should feel grateful that you dont have to worry about your kid getting blown into pieces because their playing at the beach.

I even though it may sound like I am a very hardcore PRO GOV person, the fact Is i am not and I do believe that our goverment does have some very serious issues however, I have been a part of several rallys and have sent letters to my senators about the issues I care about and I feel that are unjust(video game laws for one:lol . My best advice to all of you is to do the same

Originally posted by zorgon
I wonder if its still possible to search out old radio broadcasts of 9/11 reports. I was on my way to work in the car when it happened I heard the announcer say "one of the planes was shot down" Is there a way to go through raddio broadcast like you can newspaper archives?

Sure just go ahead and do a search on them, the BBC has a few im sure of (most credible news originzation in my eyes)

Also be aware that everyone at that time had no idea what was going on, an announcer most likely did NOT see it since they were well announcing it on the radio and were most likely in their news station, it was probably 2nd-10th hand information that was passed along to them. Some people say it was missles, Some people say they were unmarked planes etc. Please make sure to get more then one source of your information, dont go off of the loose change video alone .

Good hunting to you.

Originally posted by zorgon

I think we are probably all just in need of a good leader to rally around

here here.

I'd vote for you.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by torbjon]

Originally posted by Diem928
Do you not realize those polls you listed do not say anything other then that the American people think the Gov is covering up 9/11 and that their is more to what we are being told. No where in these polls does it say "84% of Americans think their own government committed 9/11"

One of the questions asked if an investigation should be opened to examine the evidence of the US having orchestrating the whole thing. That's certainly beating close to the bush, as is the question of if there was a cover-up in general. Fore-knowledge, and allowing it to happen, is hardly a minor issue either.

The one message you should get from those polls is that a very sizable portion of Americans believe 9/11 involved government foul play, either in allowing it to happen, covering it up, or even (though it was never explicitly asked) orchestrating the whole thing. Those are all very serious allegations.

But I think that you realize that if any one of these polls ever asked Americans directly if they believed the whole thing was orchestrated by the US, we would see similar numbers as the figures that came back from asking if there should be a serious investigation into such a notion, or the numbers of people saying there has been a cover-up already. I've seen, heard and read many individuals putting forth evidence of government involvement, but I'm a little short on experiences from those who only want an investigation re-opened, with no opinion yet developed on the matter. What about you?

Then take these polls and read to much into them and then use them to their advantage to make their point.

Oh, yeah, I'm definitely reading wayy into these polls.

I mean, you could argue that those polls somehow disprove the notion that very many Americans believe the government orchestrated 9/11, if you were hard-headed enough, right?

NOT targeting you personally, comrade, so please don't take it that way, okay? Just wanted to take a couple of lines out of context out of your post above to rant In General about... your entire post In Conext is just a few above this one... (you know how the mods can get with excessive quoting )

Originally posted by Diem928

...

I personally dont think this country is that bad....


Look at all the other countrys that have it much worse then us. ...


...

isn’t ‘not that bad’ kind of the same as ‘not that great’?

and the attitude of ‘other countries have it worse than us so we should be grateful’ thing… wow…

what Is that? A LOT of people feel that way and I just don’t get it.

“I’m freezing to death, but They are freezing to death AND starving to death, so I should be grateful that I’m ONLY freezing to death”

or how about

“I’m having my personal freedoms stripped away from me, being taxed into the poor house for things I don’t believe in, and being forced into wage slavery to fund a bunch of jack booted thugs who are going to kill me or lock me up if I don’t toe the line. THEY have all of those woes, PLUS they are being eaten alive by rats, so, really, I have No Right to complain…”

Do I Really Have to be eaten alive by rats first Before I complain about the way things are, or should I try to take some sort of action Now, before the rats come?

Saying ‘it’s not so bad, it could be worse’ is kind of lazy and complacent, isn’t it?

Why not shoot for Perfection?

Sure it’s ‘not so bad’, sure it ‘could be worse’… could be a Lot better, too, don’t you think?

What’s wrong with trying to create a more perfect Union? (god I really hope those words sound familiar)

If you are cool with the way things are and the direction things seem to be going, Far Out, more power to you…

but A lot of people in this country (and maybe it IS the minority, it’s still a Lot of people) are Not happy with how things are or the direction they seem to be going.

We’ve lost faith in the ‘democratic process’ and don’t feel that that avenue is a viable solution to the problems we perceive around us.

What other avenues can we pursue?

The ‘democratic process’ is the only legal machinery we have at our disposal for making changes within the system, and many people have little to no faith in that process… so what do we do? (which is what the originator of this thread was asking, yes?)

there’s Passive Resistance

OR

there’s Not So Passive Resistance…


hmmm… and I thought I would have more free time to work on this post, but Duty Calls… quiet loudly…

so I gotta go
twj

i didnt read any of the post.....but this is what i think

i agree with government is behind 9/11 attack

One of the terrorist attack that went in one of the World Trade Center was trained

by the US government......if you want proof i prob can get it

and also the story of Flight 93 is completely fake.....but i do believe Flight 93

existed.......but where did that plane go???

anyone have any picture of the plane after it was SHOT down?

They showed a pretty big whole

poeple might think im talking out of my ass...........but thats ur opinion

can trust anyone

ITS PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd vote for you.

Thanks, but I have my hands full right now with my other army

We’ve lost faith in the ‘democratic process’ and don’t feel that that avenue is a viable solution to the problems we perceive around us.

What other avenues can we pursue?

What I would like to know is just how much will it take to wake the sleeping Giant. I know most people in the same way feel we are loosing our freedoms and way of life but feel frustrated and helpless to do anything.

And now with the Homeland security thing looking at phone records...

What will it take? seems 9/11 wasn't enough, Iraq is not enough.

We had homeland security back home too It was called Schutzstaffel ("protective squadron"), or SS

The German people were duped too, until it was too late

Originally posted by 8th
Ok. We know, and have proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Government of the United States has 'masterminded' 9/11. We, the citizens, are supposed to rally on right behind our leader and support support support the fight to stop terrorism! Like sheep, we were just supposed to go in and follow right? Well we caught it, and its coming down on them. The whole picture isn't clear yet, but hopefully through time, and true justice, we will know everything. There is no more question weather they did it or not, it is apparent.

Now what do we do? What actions do we take? Who do we talk to? Who can we trust?

I think its time to fight the terrorists.

Oh my. I see no proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
I am not a sheep, I'm more like a goat - but really - don't put everyone into your self limiting categories. There is more to life than the "believers" and the "non believers".

It is no more apparent after reading the pages and pages on this site or any other that the US government "masterminded" this. All I have seen is tons of conflicting arguments and so called evidence on both sides.

I don't know who to think did it - but I know for sure about one thing. I was not there. I didn't know anyone involved even remotely. It is beyond me to prove it either way.

Read the theories and stories and thoughts on others. Sure thing, I can do that.
But say beyond a shadow of doubt about any of it, naa.

My mind will stay open.

Just for the record I never stated that the U.S. Government "Orchestrated", "Masterminded" or "Executed" 9/11 behind the scenes - I disagreed with the author of the Thread. What I WAS saying is that I am Convinced (I Remember 9/11 - I LIVED in NEW YORK CITY at the time - I have been following it in the Media & Internet from then until now) that the Bush Administration KNEW that there were Terrorists in our Country that wanted to do something like this to us - they even caught a couple beforehand. What did they do? They *LET THEM GO*! They let them ALL go!

Something STINKS here - wether this is just a matter of Incompetence or something more Sinister is a question that is still up in the air. There was definitely some "Covering Up" going on. Either which way it is still a very serious matter indeed!

Originally posted by 8th
Ok. We know, and have proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Government of the United States has 'masterminded' 9/11. We, the citizens, are supposed to rally on right behind our leader and support support support the fight to stop terrorism! Like sheep, we were just supposed to go in and follow right? Well we caught it, and its coming down on them. The whole picture isn't clear yet, but hopefully through time, and true justice, we will know everything. There is no more question weather they did it or not, it is apparent.

Now what do we do? What actions do we take? Who do we talk to? Who can we trust?

I think its time to fight the terrorists.

The actual empowered acting goverment under the Constitution could never have done such, it is incapacitated from such action. It can only serve (idealogically of course, but can we, should we give this up?).

It has been infiltrated while "We, the public slept, lulled by material comfort and warm happy lies into an ignorant, apathetic, confused, dependant, obsessed, savage, addicted, isolated mass connected through the television to the corporations which have enabled the usurpation (with our patronage) before our eyes.

What can we do?

Oh man, ................ don't get me started!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 24-6-2006 by Christophera]

Originally posted by torbjon
NOT targeting you personally, comrade, so please don't take it that way, okay? Just wanted to take a couple of lines out of context out of your post above to rant In General about... your entire post In Conext is just a few above this one... (you know how the mods can get with excessive quoting

)

No problem


Anyway, I did choose my wording very carefully for the most part and you seemed to pick up on it. One of the main points I was making in the post is that we(USA) are a very stable country for the most part, and we should be grateful for that. I know I am. While I agree as I have said before things could be much better then what they are, they also could be much worse, this is something im sure everyone can agree upon.


Now to bsbray11 and the polls he has supplied. First of all, perhaps you should check into the credibility or should I say the lack of credibility that Zogby has, there have been numerous articles that question the methods that Zogby uses in their polls ranging from how they ask their questions, who they ask, and how they reveal their results. Also if you buy the 'Executive Summary' they have a tendency to have contradictions in them.

Everyone screams for people to do their research on 9/11 etc, when they themselves only provide the sources that further their agenda. This my friends is the very definition of propaganda itself. If you want to be taken seriously please post reliable sources instead of lets say the 'Loose Change' video itself. The most reliable sources are usually the ones that are unbiased and present both sides of the story equally .

It's too late...
It has taken me literally months, half a year, to open myself up to even look at some of the discussion and conspiracy behind 9-11. It's been a very very very slow process of acknowledgement and admission that I was indeed wrong in what I believed. I feel that my fellow Americans are way too proud to ever do that. Complacency is at its highest here, and WE've allowed these people to infiltrate and put the blinders over our eyes. This ball is already way too big to stop rolling. I've come to my conclusion, and so have many of you. I don't need to see any more evidence on either side. Some will never open themselves that way. On the same hand, maybe we the believers need to understand,
it's too late...

Thanks for the replies comrades… and everybody else, too.

What To Do?

When I look at U.S. history something that I notice is that every time a group of people trying to make some Serious Changes (for a cause they believe to be ‘Just’ and ‘Right’ and ‘Good’) they’ve always been willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. (ie life and limb)

People put their bodies into the line of fire and made a stand. Sometimes they even took up arms (although they didn’t necessarily cast the first stone, they seemed to have been prepared to use force if needed)

You gotta Give to Get.

When I look at physiology it seems that humans are naturally creatures of Addiction, be it a substance, or an emotion. Americans have had the luxury of becoming strung out on a Lot of different things these past few hundred years.

Convincing Americans to give up their MTV, their flip phones, their squishy TP, their Starbucks, and whatever sense of security they happen to be experiencing these days in exchange for the nebulous ability to Responsibly Govern Ourselves is no easy task.

I’m a total anarchist… but I LIKE my stuff, which makes me a rather ineffectual wuss in the realms of revolution.

A charismatic leader is where it’s at. Until one comes along I think we’re all doomed.

"A charismatic leader is where it’s at. Until one comes along I think we’re all doomed. "

exactly.