Should Terri Schiavo be allowed to die. / 10/22/04 UPDATE

Thanks for the info. Her "former" husband doesn't sound like a very nice guy. I thought maybe he was worried about huge bills from splitting everything 50/50 if he got a divorce and didn't realize he already received some kind of monetary payment. He should have gotten a divorce long ago definitely if he already has two kids from his new "girlfriend". Sounds like a new wife to me even if it's not by law yet. If Terri (hope I got the name right) wasn't in such bad condition, I believe she would immediately seek a divorce herself and have good grounds for it.

Thanks for the info above, I can definitely see now how so much bitterness and feuding is taking place now.

This may be off topic but I can't stop wondering if vegetative people sleep with their eyes open or not at all.

Making a decision like that for someone else has to be the most difficult thing in the world to do. I can't believe that Terri's husband made that decision without a lot of soul searching. Now might be a good time for everyone to think about making a living will so that your wishes will be carried out in the event that something like this happens to you.

If it were me I wouldn't want to be kept alive... because even with rehab what quality of life would I have in the long run....

No one has said if Terri had a living will... I haven't seen anything mentioned about how long Terri was like this before her doctors or her husband brought up unplugging her... I would really like to see the doctors statements about her condition and prognosis before I start condeming her husband.

I think I can understand how her husband might feel after being told that his wife was a vegetable. If the doctors told him this... he owed it to himself to try to move on emotionally... and the fact that he had a girlfreind and even children after he was given that prognosis is understandable I think. 13 years is a long time ... how many of you could do it I wonder?

In the end I believe that Terri will not die until she is ready to die herself. I think her husband should divorce her and let her parents take over her care along with the cost of that care.

Ya know there are some poeple in this world that are just not wired to take care of people who are sick... they suck at it... You hear stories all the time of men and women divorcing thier spouses for small disabilities compared to the disability that Terri has. Terri's husband might truely believe that the inhuman thing would be to let her continue to live like a vegetable. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this case and will pray that a resolution comes soon.

I'd like to add more to this... I was at the link where they took Micheal deposition. Before you go pointing a finger maybe you should read his deposition.

From what I understand because I am still reading ... it must have been like an 8 hour deposition. But anywho the malpractice suit awarded I believe 1.2 to Terri for her care and then a sepearte award to Micheal for his lose.

At some point there was also some conflict between Micheal and a nursing home staff. Seems he called them to assist because she was choking and they came in the room and then left. Seems Micheal has been pretty darn persistant about Terri's care and has made a lot of people at the nursing home mad because he told them he didn't like thier attitudes. So if micheal was filing complaints against the nursing home and the employees there for not doing thier jobs then of course they don't like him and you have to take any accusations that they make with a grain of salt.

More than one doctor told Micheal that he /she had done everything they could for his wife and then stopped seeing her and she went back to a nursing home... which BTW Miciheal in the beginning, before he made the decision to let her die... was with her every day in those nursing homes and participated in her care.

There was also a falling out between Micheal and her parents or more specifically her father. According to Micheal the first attorney who took thier case was making claims of 15 million dollar awards and at that point with that in mind he had told her parents he would split the award with them and there would be more than enough to make sure Terri got the absolute best care for the rest of her life. he and her parents had talked about buying a home and living together with Terri and having private nursing care to assit etc etc etc

That particular attorney left or they hired another I can't remember and in the end the awards were very small in comparison... 1.2 million dollars is not a lot of money when you consider that nursing home care can be as high as 200.00 per day. Wouldn't take very long to spend that much money and you have to remember too that 1.2 million was the award not what Micheal actually got .. attorneys had to be paid and on awards larger than 1 million dollars I believe they can withhold a certain percent of the money. I think I read that Micheal said he actually received 300,000 dollars on Terri's award in the end. So the 15 millioin dollars didn't appear but Terri's father thought Micheal should still split the money with them. Greed geesh... There were no complaints about anything until after that money was awarded. So don't judge Micheal too harshly and remember that it was probably 4 or 5 years of care with no noticeable results when with encouragment from her doctors he then decided it was better to let her die. Remember the doctors brought the subject up.



[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Chevy]

having seen this man in action, trust me, I meet him in 1996 (so Terri's heartattack would have been a year previously), I can tell you that no $$$ went for "rehab", his behavior was odd, and borderline abuse with the staff (us) and his wife, and he never, ever came to visit without the Mistress. He even brought her when she was pregnant. Sorry, having lost my own Mom to a dreadful disease, I know what people go through.

I am afraid in this case, you are wrong.

you said you saw him... thats great... not everyone has a miss congeniality personality... If I'm a bitch does that mean I'm trying to kill my husband ? lol no don't answer that

Did you by chance see his checkbook or his bank statement or the medical bills from the previous year? Did you sit in on his discussions with the doctors and hear thier medical opinions about what should and shouldn't be done for her? Lets see one year after her heart attack was well before the settlemnt and I'm guessing but she was probably on state medicaid at the time unless you gonna say that they were millionaires as soon as she hit the floor ?

My mother who is in similar circumstances with Parkinsons she has Medicaid and is in a nursing home.... after a few weeks of rehab if there was no noticable improvement Medicaid refuses to pay for it... and my guess is that private managed care insurance would be the same. Once any insurance saw a diagnosis from a doctor that this paitent was in a persistent vegitative state, why would they burn money trying to improve a condition that doctors have said cannot be improved. You can't hardly get insurance to pay for procedures that doctors sayare necesarry to save lives these days.

I refuse to crusify the man based on your personality conflict with him or even based on your view that he shouldn't have had a girlfriend.... From what I understand by what I've read Terri was bolimic and she shouldn't have been doing that either If that was the case then she was slowly commiting suicide herself.

Can someone tell me where is the outrage against Terri for destroying her life and the hopes and dreams of her marriage all to be able to get into a smaller dress size? They were trying to start a family and couldn't because of her abuse to her own body.

Had I been her husband and found out that was what had caused her heart attack I would have never forgiven her for it... because she was lieing to him the whole time it was goin on as well as everyone else. True she mayhave been sick in her mind to have done it to start with but that does not cancel out the emotional torture she put her husband and her family through as a result of her actions.

I'm starting to get pissed now so I'll stop.

Chevy- look I happen to know an awful lot about this case.....She is on Medicaid and there are numerous Neurologist that have offered to give her new and effective therapies for FREE.... Not to mention the million dollar malpractice suit awarded to her care, for the next 50 years, as promised by her husband on the witness stand....a month after the jury awarded Terri the money for her care he had the hospital put a DNR on her chart and STOPPED all therapies. He just wanted to be the benefactor of that money- which NONE has been used for her treatment. All the money has been used for the husbands attorney to pull the plug.

MichaeL Shiavo has denied her a yearly pap smear(basic care for any female), he won't even let her teeth be cleaned, hence she has rotting teeth. A 40 yr old woman who does not eat throught the mouth should not have rotting teeth.

He has denied her on numerous occasions visitors. Prison inmates have more rights than Terri. He won't allow TV for stimuli, outdoor walks etc.....

He wants her dead so he an collect her insurance money and marry his live in girlfriend. This whole case stinks of wrong doing.

BTW, if a persons wishes are unknown we must err on the side of life.....everyone has the right to live even if they are braindamaged.

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Narnia]

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Narnia]

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Narnia]

Since when does Medicaid pay for treatment when your sitting on a million dollar settlement?

Her teeth are rotting because the enamal was deteriorated from the self induced vomiting prior to her heart attack. Just because you stop vomiting doesn't mean there weren't cavities that were eating away at her teeth. I would imagine that her teeth were the least of anyone's worries at the time and at this point to even bring it up is inflammatory.

Micheal from what I've read got two settlements One for her treatment and one for his lose as her husband..... Someone get a calculator out and figure up the cost of her medical care for 13 years. I'm betting it cost way more than that settlement.

Why isn't anyone looking into Micheals allegations that her parents most particularly her father wanted part of that settlement money and began to harrass and brow beat Micheal because he wouldn't hand it over ?

There are two sides to every story and unless you were sitting in on every conversation from the beginning how can you judge this man?

I don't know him, everyone could be wrong... but from what I've read its seems to me that he did what he could and probably did more than most would have done in the same circumstances.

You have to realize that they had no children... the doctors had said she would never improve... why should he give himself a life sentence especially when her condition was self inflicted ?

Persons closest to the situation are biased I believe. They can't see the forest for the trees.

I believe Micheal when he said that when a similar thing happened in the family in the past and someone was put on life support and that his wife had said I wouldn't want to live like that. I've said the same damm thing myself to my husband when it has happened in our families and I meant it too.

To say that she never had therapy is a lie... she had therapy and it wasn't working. It would be like beating a dead horse don't ya think?

In an operating room when someone's heart stops they try to revive them... they use every reasonable means to get thier heart started again. But at some point if the heart doesn't start again they have to give up. The people's relatives might say if you had only kept it up 5 more minutes or for another hour they would be alive today. When do you stop shocking a patient who's heart has failed. When do you stop CPR ? When? Do you continue it for the rest of your life?

I think MIcheal should turn over custody of his wife to her parents and any portion of the settlement for her that is left should be put in a medical trust fund to pay for her care. The portion that was awarded to him for his lose should remain his. And if there is any life insurance that he is the beneificary for then he should remain the beneficiary in the event that she dies.

Put that proposal on the table to her parents and see if they agree. I got money that says they won't agree because they want the money. If they are sincere in thier desire to rehabilitate thier daughter then the money wouldn't matter now would it ?

I wanted to answer your last point before I go into your entire argument, the parents have offered Michael Shiavo on 2 occasions $700,000(the remainder of the money after the lawyers got involved) to take over guardianship. To which he refused, Michael and his lawyer stand to benefit through her death. George Felos(his attorney)has already admitted that he will write a book about this, when this is all done.(or when she is successfull starved and dehydrated)

I will revisit this, let me get my links in order, give me a day.

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Narnia]

For Chevy - no, it seems Terri didn't have a living will. Remember, she was only 26 when this happened. People of that age don't generally consider they would be in the situation she is in. Maybe a lesson for us all?

To get back the the original question, we are not yet a society that allows people to be killed, and as Terri is not being kept alive by machines, it would, indeed, be murder to stop her nutrition/fluids. That would be cruel way to die, and I fear, a painful way. This is not a situation where Terry could be left to die - she would have to be killed.

As someone who has been in the situation of having to make the decision and say the actual words to allow a loved one to die, believe me, it is not an easy thing to do, no matter I was positive I was carrying out the wishes of the person concerned.

I can only hope nature will allow Terri to die, possibly from pnuemonia (the old people's friend) in a peaceful and dignified manner. I know that is what I would choose for myself in a similar situation. I certainly would not expect anyone to have to make a decision or carry out the deed to kill me.

This is a situation which we can all be glad is not happening to us. I have much sympathy for Terri's parents.

Thanks Narnia... I'm very interested in reading more facts on this.

I don't believe that Terri should be starved to death. That is not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that it seems there is a lench mob going after her husband and I just don't see from what I've read so far any reasoning for it.

I believe from what I've read that there is a huge rift between Mike and her parents over the money. Once things like this happen in a family, once Mike was convinced that her parents were only interested in the money it would be hard for him to see any other motivation. Maybe he doesn't trust them to take care of her. Who knows... I would definatly like to read more facts... not rumour or speculation. I'd like to see more of the transcripts from the malpractice case too.

And as for making money off the situation.... I'd be willing to bet as well that once the custody of Terri has been determined, either way, her parents and thier attorneys will be writing a book as well. Lordy everyone is writing a book these days

Chevy- I will work on it tonight, there are sites that have the legal documents up, along with testimony. I have to sift through them for the pertainance to this discussion.

The problem I have with all this, is aside for the accusations on both sides, Terri Schiavo has been laying in a hospital bed with no stimuli and no therapies(not even standard ones for her condition) for 14 years. What is in Terris best interest, which I believe we agree, are to have her parents care for her and give her rehab. They are parents, as am I. And I would do no less for my child.

I've read this thread, and I believe that Terri should not 'be allowed to die'.
What is her ability to feel pain?. What is her response to pleasure...music, parents,
going out of her room to see the sunshine? A 'bed ridden' patient can easily take
a 'vacation' in the open air, as her bed would have casters.

Don't give Terri a 'heads up'.(that would give it away). Move her bed outside, on a lovely day and get a Neuro' to monitor her facial expressions and any other reactions. Terri may well be confused
for some-time, but i think this would provide an insight regarding Terri' brain damage.
And i know for a fact that patients with this degree of 'injury' can benefit greatly from
different stimuli.

Sanc'.

that's a great idea San... about moving the bed outside on a nice day and observing and monitoring her expressions and "neuro" (sp)...

However, if I'm reading the previous posts correctly, her husband Michael would not allow something like this ?

Could the hospital take it upon themselves to do it and if so, what would / could happen to them if they did ?

Originally posted by elevatedone
Could the hospital take it upon themselves to do it and if so, what would / could happen to them if they did ?

The Hospice could but they would be sued faster than you can say,
"What about Terri?"
This is Medical red tape gone mad. Has anyone asked Terri, what she want's?
All i'm trying to establish is Terri' state. I bet it's worse due to 'other agendas'.

I've been involved re: Spinal and Neurology for 16yrs. (not a Doctor),
Sanc'.

If I had a disease like alzheimers or some other brain-wasting disease, I would want to die before I forgot my whole life and was unable to care for myself.

To Chevy, per your request and to all those interested, the following is the testimony of Michael Schiavo early on in the Med/Mal law suit:

www.terrisfight.org...

There is more Chevy, I am still working on it.

It has been established that terri can feel pain.

Narnia I was rereading you post.. the posts about teeth and pap smears etc are inflammatory ... and really do not speak to the important issues in this case. This type of inflamatory accusation is probably the reason behind Micheals not allowing her parents to see her or take pictures of her or have access to her medical records. Because they have shown that blowing everything little detail out of proportion is thier goal. Taking pictures of Terri to post on web sites to silicite support for thier agenda.

But for the sake of arguement I'm going to put this to you

Micheal approves an anual pap exam for his wife. Her test comes back positive for cancer. The perscribed treatment is a hestorectomy and a course of chemo therapy.

She can feel pain remember? Would you honestly say that you could put her through the horror of chemo the sickness the vomiting the lose of her hair just to name a few of the side affects. In her condition would you do that to her ? In my view there is no positive proof that she knows anything beyond that she can actually feel pain and its a fact that Chemo therapy to cure the cancer would put her through a great deal of pain and suffering and in the end would not improve the vegetative state she is currently in. In my view the treatment for cancer would be cruel to her in her current circumstances. So if Micheal already knows that he couldn't put his wife through that kind of cruelty then wouldn't doing an anual pap exam be pointless ?

I want to share a story with you right now about the stoopidity of the laws that have been passed to supposedly protect people with disabilities. I had first hand knowledge of this because my relative was a temporary guardian for the woman I'm about to tell you about.

A woman age 26, residing in a home for the mentally retarded, a group home where male and female resided, turned up pregnant. This woman had the mind of a 6 year old child. She was sweet... I spent some time with her.. she could talk some but not a lot... she loved to wash dishes... and would cry if my sister in law wouldn't let her do them after supper. She was child like. The law to protect disabled individuals kept her doctors or family from authorizing an abortion. They said she had to have the baby. And the baby would be put up for adoption.

My sisterinlaw took care of her through the course of her pregnancy. When she took her for her doctors exams the woman cryed and was traumatised about the vaginal exams when they did them. You would think that considering her mental capacity and in truth she did not understand that she was pregnant even though they tryed to communicate that fact to her it was just out side of her scope of understanding , but any how you would think that they would have at the very least scheduled a surgery for this women to take the child by c-section when she was full term.

They didn't though... they put that poor little thing through the horror of child birth... my god the pain is bad enough when you know whats going on ... can you imagine what she was goin through not even understanding it? My sister inlaw wanted to kill the people in charge of her because she had come to care for her and couldn't stand watching her suffer like that. It was a long drawn out labor... The child was born with nurmerous things wrong with it as well. When they showed this mentally retarded woman her baby ... she wanted nothing to do with it.. she just wanted out of there away from the pain and the doctors who were hurting her.

The law will not allow a family to have a mentally retarded child fixed so that they can't get pregnant. That is just crazy in my view. The baby was mongoloid along with several other severe disabilties and was not put up for adoption. The baby was placed with a couple who specialized in taking care of children like that.

Could someone tell me who was served and protected by the laws that allowed all this to happen?




[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Chevy]

Chevy- Per your U2U, I wanted to have you read testimony of differnent doctors than that of Michael Schiavo.

Also you may want to look at the video of Terri and how she responds to her surrounding as well as her mom. Look under "Video of Terri" on the front page of the site: www.terrisfight.org...

I do understand how you can come up with the opposite conclusion, however for me I see it differently. This is a landmark case, if heresay evidence is allowed to determine the fate of a ones life, without due process and the party making the decision only stands to gain, the implications for the future safety of the disabled in this country will be tragic. Spinal fluid or not in part of the brain, level of cognitiveness are all value judgements made by doctors. Noone really knows what goes on in the mind of a braindamaged, coma, or mentally challenged person. If we as a civil society start labeling the disabled and making life and death decision based on the notion of the quality of life, would we not be judging? Doctors are suppose to take the hypocratic oath upon becoming a doctor:

".......I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient.

I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous. I will neither prescribe nor administer a lethal dose of medicine to any patient even if asked nor counsel any such thing nor perform the utmost respect for every human life from fertilization to natural death and reject abortion that deliberately takes a unique human life............"

With that being said, yes this case is about money for Michael Schiavo, the Schindlers have given up thier life savings to protect the dignity and life of thier daughter. Any persons who stand to gain, should not be eligible to make a life or death decision for the party in need. It should be the will of the patient and if that will is unknown, we must as a civil society err on the side of life.




[edit on 8-6-2004 by Narnia]

I watched the videos... it does look like she has some recognition and can interact some.

So what is the answer?

How do you allow Micheal to move on and have a life? Cause that does seem to be the crux of the situation at this point.

I still say they should grant him an annulment based on the fact that Terri lied to him about her eating disorder and essentially brought this on herself. If there was an annulment then Micheal could retain 100% of the settlement he received for his lose? The money that was awarded to Terri for her care go into a medical trust fund administered by a third party to pay for her care. Then give her parents guardianship.

The thing is that I don't think Micheal has done anything wrong here accept to want out of the situation, after a good 5 yrs of trying everything possible to help her ...... and you have to remember that he started dating and seeing other women with encouragment from Terri's parents. So that tells me that they believed at that time that Terri would never recover to the point that she could be a true wife to Micheal again.

Right now it seems that terri's parents are on a witch hunt to find Micheal at fault in some way for Terri's condition.... useing every means possible to make him look like an abuser.

Its already been established that Terri's parents can't provide her care. She will have to remain instiutionalized and with proper care she could live to be 100 years old. She could out live her parents. Then who gets custody?

I don't know what to make of it all and I'm still reading documents. There has got to be a solution that allows Micheal to move on with his life.

I think the legislator should address this type of problem... someone else suggested that after 7 years of not being able to be a true wife or husband to your spouse then a person should be able to file for abandonment instead of divorce which would leave all assets of the marriage to the person who has been abandoned for whatever reasons including medical reasons.

What use would Terri have for community property anyways ?


Now if Bush really wanted to do something constructive he would push legislation that would allow an out for Micheal and others like him. Course I know it might not be politically correct espcially in an election year but it most certainly would be the right thing to do and could possibly end this whole nightmare. Unless of course everyone welcomes the nightmare for its publicity value.





[Edited on 31-5-2004 by Chevy]

bumping this up as there is more "news" pertaining to Terri's husband....

see ATS thread :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.prweb.com...

FL AHCA Cover-Up Forces Schoch to Issue Public Writ of Mandamus


A cover-up by the Florida AHCA (under Jeb Bush) in regards to the treatment and care of Theresa Schindler Schiavo, etc. forces Juan Schoch to issue a Public Writ of Mandamaus to various City, County, State and Federal officials.

Tallahassee, FL (PRWEB) September 2, 2004 -- The following public writ of mandamus was sent via Express Mail and certified letters to all parties in the letter on 8-28-04. It was also passed out to the media in Tallahassee the day before and on the day of the oral arguments before the Florida Supreme Court regarding the constitutionality of HB 35-E/S 12-E (Public Law 03-418). This is my Public Writ of Mandamus. Each letter came with a mini cd of the AHCA documentation and other information which proves there is a cover-up. (Note: If you would like to represent or know someone who would like to represent this case please call Juan Schoch at 407-925-4141):

August 28, 2004

James D. Boyd
Inspector General of AHCA
2727 Mahan Drive
Tallahassee, FL 32308-5403

Re: All information, CCR#s, and yet to be assigned CCR#s contained
and referred to in CIG#200406030002 and AHCA Tracking #05-003, etc.,
other cases yet to be generated and your duties to set Theresa
Schindler Schiavo on the road to her recovery (much can be found in
the enclosed mini compact disc)

Dear Mr. Boyd:

Thank you for your letter of August 13, 2004 regarding my August 9,
2004 e-mail requesting public records and copies of various agency
documents. In your response you write "�the issues raised in your
June 3 letter and July 20 e-mail did not show evidence of possible
violations of statutes, policy or procedure that could constitute
misconduct or wrongdoing on the part of agency staff�" to which I
make the following statement and request:

I demand as a United States citizen and a Florida resident
sufficient corrective actions, remedies, redress, relief, etc. to
what I perceive and know to be illegal actions of AHCA, facilities,
etc. I hereby request AHCA and any other government agency or
entity, local, county, state or federal invested with investigative,
enforcement and prosecutorial powers who may be reading this, or
others of whom it is within their purview of being able to contact
said powers, etc. to do their jobs of investigating, enforcing or
assisting in getting the laws enforced in regards to valid
allegations of acts of felony neglect and attempted murder, etc.
perpetrated against the person of Theresa Schindler Schiavo.

While it is my duty (when it has come to my knowledge) as a resident
of the State of Florida and a United States Citizen to report
abuses, neglect or exploitations against vulnerable people who can't
speak for themselves it is NOT my job to site book and page. One
would think that the competency level of all persons in agencies
serving the public who by statute are to receive, properly review
and survey complaints for violations of statutes, criminal
violations, disregard for policies and procedures that are in fact
evidence of misconduct or wrongdoing on the part of agency staff and
facilities, persons, etc. would be much higher then heretofore
displayed.

I have provided, while perhaps to some seemingly disconnected or
incongruent, sufficient, overall and comprehensive evidence to
illuminate within the average persons mind and their reasonable
ability to piece together and comprehend pertinent data, more than
enough evidences of illegal conduct, which point to statute
violations on the part of agency staff and facilities, etc. and it
has become painfully clear that people in your and other agencies
are spending more time sending not just me, but most complainants,
relating to the matters presented, far afield from the matter at
hand, of which there is or are:

* Non-delivery of all 15 retained rights of this incapacitated
person pursuant to Florida Statute 744.3215(1)(a-o) both
individually and collectively as a whole

* State licensed facilities bowing to the abuse of power by the
guardian, his attorneys, local law enforcement, the state attorneys
office, and other public officials to facilitate and further the
denial and withholding of this citizens statutory and constitutional
retained rights

* Illegal acts and or omissions by many supervisory level personnel
in many agencies and facilities, in non-fulfillment of their duty by
those personnel pursuant to Florida Statute 415.1034 mandatory
reporting to invoke and call upon protections under the
whistleblowers act when their employment is threatened. Such and
other failures are enabling, promoting and facilitating what appears
to be an overall agenda of their various supervisors (and others)
who indirectly and/or directly are working collectively (knowingly
or unknowingly) pursuant to a directed agenda by the recently
exposed many in positions of public trust

In light of the fact that AHCA Complaint Administration Unit intake
operator Justina told me that they "didn't want to hear about what
particular statute violations were occurring as it is the AHCA's job
to know these things," and as I have stated above it is not my job
to point out the specific violations of statutes, policy, or
procedure that could constitute misconduct or wrongdoing on the part
of agency staff, facilities, etc. (your words in bold), it should be
obvious to you that while I am perfectly capable of seeing and
reporting specific violations I was being told not to do this by the
Complaint Administration Unit intake personnel. Now I am being told
by you to the contrary that I must do your jobs. This in and of
itself is evidence of an agency and a system that continues to
notoriously exhibit incompetence in this matter, and only proves a
limited ability to send the very people who you serve, on endless
tail-chases and endless non-productive rabbit trails.

While all of this energy is expended, the primary matter at hand,
the FS825.102 and FS825.103 abuse, neglect and exploitation of
Theresa Marie Schiavo continues at the liable hands of all agencies,
various personnel and public officials, etc. to the detriment of not
only her but all vulnerable adults, elderly and disabled persons
throughout the State of Florida by the acts and omissions of every

one of these negligent persons who are entrusted with the Public's
Trust.

BE IT KNOWN, that everyone is officially on notice, that to continue
to obey these illegal and subversive directives, of persons who wish
to continue to further the obvious and blatant efforts to
intentionally cause the death of this very conscious, self-aware,
cognitive, disabled and vulnerable adult (who has been actively
prevented from getting better) as defined by Florida Statute 415,
744, 825, 400, 782, the ADA Act, and CFR42 rises to the level of
felony crimes and is unlawful, collectively, pursuant to Florida
Statute 876.22 through FS876.31 known as the Subversive Activities
Act, in that the collective efforts, whether knowingly or
unknowingly, of all the involved including medical professionals,
public servants, facilities, guardians, caregivers, and others, is
ultimately resulting in the destruction of all that we as free
citizens enjoy as our constitutional protections, which are there to
guarantee our inalienable right to life, liberty to that life, and
the pursuit of happiness through our FS744.3215 retained right to be
restored to capacity at the earliest possible time, which has no
time limit.

An Inalienable Right is particularly defined as: That which cannot
be given or taken away. Thusly, a person cannot Give their Life away
nor can it be Taken away. Both are crimes, and protections of life
are networked rather thoroughly throughout our Laws and our
Constitution.

Consider this my public Writ of Mandamus to all (with various media
as my witness) who will be receiving this letter, to cease and
desist your acts or omissions which are felony crime statute
violations, which may lead ultimately to this woman's death by your
incompetency, complacency, malfeasance, misfeasance, obedience to
personal or collective agendas, disobedience of mandatory reporting
of abuse, neglect and exploitations. This will require your
proactive efforts in conjunction with other agencies and persons, to
go against those who draw you in and only use you as pawns in a
bigger agenda, by this case, to create a constitutional Right To
Make You Dead. Investigate and prosecute the guilty parties. It is
your obligation to set Theresa on the road to her recovery.

Do your jobs or suffer the consequences in the long run for your
participation in blatant, in your face, felony crimes.

Sincerely,
Juan Schoch / Lake Mary, FL

P.S. I was never issued new CCR#'s per my written complaints (June
3, 2004) and yet you have done nothing but obfuscate that fact. I
find this more than just a little reprehensible and believe it shows
the complete and total incompetence, if not outright obstruction of
justice, by you, your staff, the AHCA Complaint Administration Unit
and others in your agency. It would be smart to stop digging
yourself a hole and get back on the right track.


cc: Jeb Bush, Governor
c/o Christa Calamas, Governor's General Counsel,
Charlie Crist, Attorney General,
Lee Constantine, Senator, District 22,
Derry Harper, Chief Inspector General, Executive Office of Governor,
Dawn Case, Director of Investigations, Executive Office of Governor,
Guy M. Tunnell, Commissioner, Florida Department of Law Enforcement,
Lance Newman, Director, Tampa District Office, Florida Department of
Law Enforcement,
Cynthia Schuler, District Administrator of District 14, Department
of Children and Families,
Bernie McCabe, Pinellas Pasco State Attorney,
Dorene Thomas, Chief of Police, Pinellas Park Police Department,
Sid Klein, Chief of Police, Clearwater Police Department,
Everett Rice, Pinellas County Sheriff,
Carl Whitehead, Special Agent in Charge, FBI Tampa Division,
John L. Wodatch, Chief, Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights
Section, U.S. Department of Justice,

Representatives of House Committees Elder Affairs and Long Term
Care, Family Health, Health Care and Health Services: Rep. Hugh
Gibson / Rep. Dorothy Mindingall / Rep. Tom Anderson / Rep. Joyce
Cusack / Rep. Carole Green / Rep. Richard Machek / Rep. Sheri
McInvale / Rep. John Quinones / Rep. Dave Russell / Rep. Heather
Florentino / Rep. Sandy Adams / Rep. Aaron Bean / Rep. Faye Culp /
Rep. Nancy Detert / Rep. Matt Meadows / Rep. Sandra Murman / Rep.
Nan Rich / Rep. Frank Farkas / Rep. Ed Homan / Rep. Holly Benson /
Rep. Gus Bilirakis / Rep. Marty Bowen / Rep. Susan Bucher / Rep.
Larry Cretul / Rep. Rene Garcia / Rep. Gayle Harrell / Rep. Arthenia
Joyner / Rep. Stan Mayfield / Rep. Dave Murzin / Rep. Joe Negron /
Rep. Ralph Poppell / Rep. Manuel Prieguez / Rep. Julio Robaina /
Rep. Yolly Roberson / Rep. Ray Sansom / Rep. Eleanor Sobel / Rep.
Shelley Vana / Rep. Roger Wishner / Rep. Juan Zapata

Kate O'Beirne, Washington Editor, National Review / David Sommer,
Reporter, Tampa Tribune / Brendan Farrington, Correspondent,
Associated Press / Jim Witters, City Editor, Bradenton Herald / Mike
Vasilinda, Bureau Chief, Capitol News Service / John Lucas, Bureau
Chief, Florida News Network / Marshall Griffin, News Director,
Florida Public Radio / John Baker, Bureau Chief, Florida's Radio
Networks / Rick Flagg, Bureau Chief, Florida Radio News / Jim
Saunders, Bureau Chief, The Florida Times-Union / Paige St. John,
Bureau Chief, Gannett News Service / Marc Caputo, Reporter, The
Miami Herald / Lloyd Dunkelberger, Bureau Chief, New York Times
Florida Newspapers / John Kennedy, Bureau Chief, Orlando Sentinel /
Shirish Date, Bureau Chief, The Palm Beach Post / Lucy Morgan,
Bureau Chief, St. Petersburg Times / Linda Kleindienst, Bureau
Chief, Sun-Sentinel, South Florida / Nancy Cook Lauer, Bureau Chief,
Tallahassee Democrat / David Wasson, Bureau Chief, Tampa Tribune /
Georgia Davis, News Director, WFSU-TV/The Florida Channel / Jim
Lehrer, NewsHour w/, PBS / Diane Sawyer, ABC News / Dan Rather, CBS
News / Larry King, CNN/Atlanta / David Shaw, Media Critic, Los
Angeles Times / Richard S. Newcombe, Creators Syndicate / Reed
Irvine, Chairman, Emeritus, Accuracy in Media

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