What are they watching YOU for??

I really don,t understand why people are so freaked out by surviellance cameras etc..

Is it not a good thing??

Surely if you,your family or friends were the victims of an assault,crime or whatever it would be an advantage to have footage in the absence of any witnesses??

What is it that freaks you out?what are you up to?
Most people i know don,t have anything to hide.

Also remember that most of these monitors are manned by extremely bored unqualified guys who couldn,t care less if you have a clandestine meeting with a member of the opposite sex,take a pee in a doorway etc..

If i,m missing the point let me know

Well here in the UK you are spotted on CCTV cameras over 300 times a day on average. Now that to me seems like a massive intrusion in to my privacy.

But this seems to be a sign of the times.

I get your perspective on that but I can almost guarentee that they haven,t even glanced at you unless you were Ballet dancing with a large rhinoceros in a leapordskin thong in front of them

recently in Great Britain it seems the people who monitor the CCTV cams got caught selling video captures of the event where that artist takes thousands of naked people and poses them in a picture. It was just an example of how it can be abused. Maybe one day you decide to get married, you decide one day you are unhappy, you decide to have an extra marital affair, you walk in front of cctv cam with woman in tow, cctv operator sees this and blackmails you. Maybe this can be used against politicians or Government officials to bend them to other peoples wills..who knows

Maybe right now there isn't face recognition software but who knows later what can happen. Did anyone think that the Traffic cams that were placed on highways years ago would be used now to hand out speeding tickets? Here in the USA people are hopping onboard the EZ-pass system for paying highway tolls, right now its used for paying tolls, it can track a cars movements, it can also tell how fast you are going from point A to point B, right now its for tolls, later it will also be used for giving out speeding tickets and with placements on highways will be able to track your movement as well. Its all about the future, not the now.


Pie

the saying what have you got to hide, is the biggest load of cr*p saying ever.

the geezers who run this society can destroy anyones life, without them doing anything wrong, my life is proof of that. all these geezers have to do is make the stuff up, so what have you got to hide does not matter, if they can just make stuff up and wreck your lifes.

thats the thing no one understands until it happens to them.

Surely any ''geezer'' with a grudge can make stuff up about someone without cameras anyway.Actually photographs/footage can go to prove your'innocense in certain situations.?Can you give an example if its ok?

Freedom and liberty.

Look these words up.

In the United States we are supposed to be protected from monitoring and have a constitutionally guaranteed expectation of privacy in our lives.

There is a mammoth potential for abuse when you collect large volumes of data concerning your citzenry.

A good example of this would be police dash cams. Until recently, I was under the impression that the dash cams that my tax dollars paid for could be used to DEFEND me as you state above. I believed they were expensive, protected systems that ran all of the time. This is simply not the case. They turn them on and off at will, have access to the tape and the recorder and you have to ask/pay THEM for a copy of whatever they see fit to present to you. The police accepted my FOIA request and sent me a tape full of "snow" saying the camera had "malfunctioned". I will have my ticket dropped because of this but to say that this technology will ever be used to prove innocence is very naive. They control the entire chain of custody. The cameras and the tapes. It is only to be used against you. It is only for fear and control.

You have to get the evidence from the prosecution witness??? That is rejected.

Freedom and liberty.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
I really don,t understand why people are so freaked out by surviellance cameras etc..

Is it not a good thing??

sure it can be a good thing, but it can also be an abusive thing!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i just finished watching one DVD of 50 old-timey sci-fi flicks (2:55PM EST)

"The Brain Machine", 1972 release.

the story involved a government black-ops project, using a computer
an IBM 350 to crunch data, it was a self programming as it collected documented data,
and did real-time surveillance of 'subjects' to determine if they were lying, or hiding facts, and/or could be potential criminals, anarchists, terrorists, etc etc.

the senator sponsering congressional funding for the project, was a real
right-winger type of present day security freak neo-con, whose pet phrase
was 'Eternal surveillance is the price of Freedom'
(a twist on the 'eternal vigilence...' historical phrase)

there are some ironic twists in the material;
the secretive project was, in the movie, conducted by the ECC
~Environmental Control Center~
the project name was: ECC- 611

consider that in our real-timeline, the DHS (HomelandSecurity)-> equals the ECC
the Patriot Acts...are the perogitive for 'Eternal Surveillance' in the movie
if you turned ECC- 611 upside down it would appear as ECC- 911
..........................eerie eh?..............................

that 1972 film, told a story of how unrestrained intrusions into personal lives
can result in tragedy (as the 4 'subjects' and 2 Doctors involved in the secretive black-ops project, of continual observation & surveillance ....were all killed
by the autonomus Brain Machine program, as they were determined to be either enemies of the State or just not good enough to stay alive in the secure society)

Agent_T,

Picture this. New York City, 2006. You step off the cab and after 5 minutes of shopping, you spot a man wearing a dirty raincoat and hat, glancing at you. You walk down the street 2 blocks, and again the man in the dirty raincoat pretends to be reading a newspaper- only he's not. He's watching you. He's following your every move around the city, monitoring everything you do. You want to ask him what he wants, but you cant. He's gone, at least for now.....

That is exactly how people feel about cameras watching your every move. If i want to go into Macy's and try a bra on over my clothes, and lampshade on my head, or check out Guido's Electronics where everything is a "bargain", I have a right to do so without the filthy guy in the filthy raincoat following ...... aka..Cameras.

It IS the same thing. This analogy bothers you doesnt it? I know it does. It should.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

In the United States we are supposed to be protected from monitoring and have a constitutionally guaranteed expectation of privacy in our lives.

Where exactly in the United States constitution does it say you are guaranteed a right to privacy?

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

In the United States we are supposed to be protected from monitoring and have a constitutionally guaranteed expectation of privacy in our lives.

Where exactly in the United States constitution does it say you are guaranteed a right to privacy?

try looking at the Fourth Amendment.

We have the right to be secure in our papers, effects and our possesions.

I cannot stand this society as it has become.

Im told that I shouldnt be bothered by it if I have nothing to hide. If I wanted my life to be scrutinized by the world I wouldve joined MTV's "real world" series(or something to that effect). Every time I see one of those cameras I give them a big fat bird. Screw this system. Watch me at your own risk. Try sending me one of those tickets in the mail from those traffic cameras(ill tear it to pieces and then pi$$ on it) come get me! LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!!!!

Will it be a problem when they want to put cameras in your home Agent T? After all its only to keep you safe...roflmao.

what the hell has gotten into this nation? people have become so afraid of these boogeymen that they have willingly sold themselves and this nation out. My grandfather would roll over in his grave to know that he fought in two wars(wwII and korea) for this. This is unacceptable.

I for one, am not afraid.. I would rather have myself and my family blown to bits and retain our nations freedom; then to have my life spared at the expense of my rights. That is what makes me a patriot. I am not afraid to die for my country's biggest ideals... I am however afraid to live without them. And this surveillence society has trounced over what those biggest ideals stand for.

The more I think about it the more PO'd I get. If I were not such a responsible person with full understanding of the consequences; I would smash every camera I came accross.

Agent-T, I am sorry for ranting; I am not PO'd at you.. just the situation.

Sorry Tone, but i have to disagree with you here.

I dont think the fourth amendment was designed to guarantee a right to privacy. If thats what was intended then i think the drafters would have just written it that way. An example of this is in the first amendment where specific rights are named and therefore guaranteed. (eg Freedom of speech, Freedom of religion)

Just another small step into the shredding of our Constitution. Not needed, but only for a stepping stone for the end result. It's called baby steps. Conditioning us to accept whats to come. Simple as that. Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
What is it that freaks you out?what are you up to?
Most people i know don,t have anything to hide.

Being an athiest would probably keep me out of the White House, although being a liar about it wouldn't.

And you never know who they might want to round up next, so it's probably a good idea to avoid being categorized.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Until recently, I was under the impression that the dash cams that my tax dollars paid for could be used to DEFEND me as you state above. I believed they were expensive, protected systems that ran all of the time. This is simply not the case.

Well, who are they pointed at? Not the criminals. They're pointed at YOU. That should have been your first clue.

Originally posted by TONE23 Will it be a problem when they want to put cameras in your home Agent T? After all its only to keep you safe...roflmao.:

If it ever came to that all they would get is a view of a big hairy ass pointing at them 24/7 or even better. spend all day walking backwards making them think thet put the tape in reversed

Originally posted by AGENT_T

Originally posted by TONE23 Will it be a problem when they want to put cameras in your home Agent T? After all its only to keep you safe...roflmao.:

for AGENT_T:
If it ever came to that all they would get is a view of a big hairy ass pointing at them 24/7 or even better. spend all day walking backwards making them think thet put the tape in reversed

lMAO.... Good answer... survey says...

But seriously, I dont mind the surveillence cameras being in department stores and in parking lots.. these are commercial places and the owner of said property has every right to place cameras as they see fit.
I just dont like cameras being used by the govt at large doing it on public property.
Especially for BS like traffic tickets.


for Conspiracy Theorist:

original quote by:Conspiracy Theorist
I dont think the fourth amendment was designed to guarantee a right to privacy. If thats what was intended then i think the drafters would have just written it that way. An example of this is in the first amendment where specific rights are named and therefore guaranteed. (eg Freedom of speech, Freedom of religion)

I wish they did! And unfortunately, contrary to my interpretation, there are only 9 people that are in a position to make that decision. being that as it is; I often times forget that my interpretation is not necc. the way the Supreme Court is going to see it. illustrated below is a glimpse into how I personally interpret the Constitution... aka why I think the way I do in this matter.

Fourth Amendment :

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

My interpretation of this Amendment would be that: the Act of searching and seizing itself is an intrusive action against being secure(which is the word that most will translate to privacy... obviously this is the heart of the Fourth Amendment debate). The framers did make it explicitly clear that not without probable cause can they be subject to searching and or seizure.

Admittion

I do not like the Idea of cameras studying my every move. Even though I am a law biding citizen I dont feel like broadcasting eveything in my life. But I am not detached from reality either. I completely understand, much to my chagrin, that once I walk out of my home I am no longer garaunteed a right to privacy(though my person and effects itself is still protected from unwarrented searching and seizing). I mean that; while it is unlawful for me to be stopped and searched out of the blue for no reason it does not mean that our govt cannot use cameras in public places. OUCH that hurts to say....

[General Note:
What worries me is that it never stops where the govt says its supposed to stop. We have camera poles here in the Florida keys lined every mile or so in Key Largo. They are supposed to be used for monitoring evacuations during hurricanes. But my mother-in-law who used to work for the Sheriffs department says that they will also be used for handing out traffic citations and such as well. I am sure that here is not the only place.. many cities have cameras set up at traffic lights that catch people blowing red lights. It upsets me because it is being used to siphon money off of the people.

I often times forget that just because I am a responsible person who is adept at self governing; that does not mean that everyone else is that way aswell. My arguement i guess is really about what I feel should be. Unfortunately, for me, this is not the way reality is going to dictate the matter. So really the only thing left for me to do
is tuck my head between my legs and kiss my privacy goodbye(outside of my home)


thank you for your time

It worries me because I don't think that very many of the people selected by others, and made possible candidates by the media barons; for the public to elect as leaders are very nice people.
I do not trust most of them not to use current anti terrorist legislation to roll back our democracy; and I certainly don’t trust them with the means of doing it.

This is what worries me about the surveillance society; all very well increasing public security providing it doesn’t push back our democracy. In my opinion there are already people being paid to monitor and try and steer political thought on this site. I DO NOT accuse them of being part of running this site; just infiltrators from outside it. Their justification seems to be that “we have to defend freedom our speech by reducing the government’s need to take it away from us.”

It’s not on this forum section and I can’t accuse anyone of anything otherwise I could be thrown of for slandering. But I'm certain it’s going on. These people are the same people who will in future monitor websites like this by drawing up an assassination list. I don’t think they have what comes to most peoples minds when they say “ethics”, they may as well not have a sole because if there is an afterlife (and lots of hard evidence still points towards it) then these people are in trouble.

I hate surveillance and I don’t fear the terrorists as much as I fear my own government. Terrorists are at least driven by conviction; whilst our people seem to be driven (mostly by) sinful thinking. And it might sound silly but I'm sure many people agree with me, after all our government has far more power than any Western (in location) terrorist have ever done. So its right to be fearful of them more than Osama Bin Laden whilst he has only killed a relatively few people compared with even just the past sinful actions our governments have done (and are capable of again).

P.S I don't mind CCTV surveillance at all providing it isn't reading my licence plate and feeding my location every time I pass a camera on the roads into a certral data base. This will be happening in U.K in a few years time using the same technology used to read licence plates at fuel pumps.


[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

Well AGENT-T sorry but i have to dissagree with the theory of ''if you've got noting to hide..why worry''

London and Paris the two most heavily populated CCTV areas in the world!

Look at the London Bombings...even though one of them the MI5 had been informed about..it didnt stop it...even after the ''dry run'' they later released the CCTV of this.

The stockwell shooting (None of the CCTV) has been released?

Now go to Paris, Princess Dianna was ''chased'' through Paris by a hoard of ''Papparazzi''
and yet what CCTV have we seen of that...none?

They the gov / big brother will only ever show you what they want you to see, that way they can say ''oh yes these MASS cctv ARE WORKING...rubbish!!

Everyone has a right to privacy, the world we live in now is without that.
They allow us all this technology and for what, so they can keep track of everything we do, from what time your board that bus to how musch you spend on shopping each week, through loyalty cards/transport cards where you pay up front and get a discount, all this information is KEPT !! in a database in which at sometime information will be slowly released to the people who need to know?

And then BANG!! the s**t is gonna hit the fan for everyone , because no matter how incidental we feel our daily routines are, they are ''monitors of each of us'' depending on how important our job is/where we live/ our name/ our salary/ our friends/ or us, maybe you inadvertly asked someone something you shouldnt have or looked at somone indifferently, you get what im trying to say?...dont you?

The eel is slippery when wet 092 on the 65 eve. NOT yet 66 flown?

CCTV does not stop crime it is merely an instrument of witness therefore for instance if you get robbed the cameras will not stop this but can be used to recognize the assailant so that the police know who they are after , but even so it will not stop you being robbed or attacked in the first place.
When you go shopping you are being watched and that makes me feel uneasy
i dont want CCTV and as a citizen doesn't that mean anything , that im being told we need them we i dont want them
Also is it not the beginning of more extreme measures to come
There are more surveillance cameras watching our every move in the street or at work or in a shopping centre than there are in a prison ,
So are we becoming prisoners in our own homes and towns?