Should Saddam Be Executed?

Wanna read about "sick?"

The state of Illinois. Northwestern U. School of Law ran a death penally project for 13 years. It was under a law professor and the leg work was done by the law school students. Over the years 11 death row inmates were freed as having been wrongfully convicted. This amounted to 7% of the average number of inmates on Illinois’ Death Row.

Governor Ryan (GOP) halted further executions in Illinois, and commuted all the sentences of the approximately 120 inmates then on death row. Governor Ryan said he would not approve further executions until the system could assure reasonable people the right person was to be executed. In the most egregious case, 4 Illinois cops had planted evidence and gave false testimony to get one man on death row. He was saved only when one of the cops confessed. The system was ready to kill the accused and convicted man.

Seven percent of the men on Illinois Death Row were innocent. Knowing that Texas is one of the worst states in the Union for criminal justice, and taking that 7% as the absolute minimum, that means our President George Bush 43 ordered the execution of 11 innocent men in his 6 years in office. 2 innocent men every year, on average. Thank you Geo W.

Bush ordered 154 executions during his tenure as Governor. A world record! One execution every 2 weeks! Wow! He once ordered a triple execution - it failed. He ordered 2 double executions. They both went off. This man is used to death. Other peoples. With all that deterrent, you’d think Texas would be crime free? Or make you sick?


[edit on 6/22/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by zorgon

How can Sadam be executed? He's done nothing wrong?

Hitler, Musilini and Stalin were leaders in their country also. I suppose we shoulda just let them be too?

[edit on 22-6-2006 by zorgon]

In a word! Yes.

They rule the Country, so they are free to make what rules they like. If people don't like the rules they can go somewhere else. America isn't the best example of being good to it's people is it? but do you see other Countrys trying to take them over, install new govenments and elect in new people to run it? no? because you can't tell someone else how to run their Country.

America think they own the world!

America think they own the world!

We are working on it..

Its funny how everyone hates us so much, yet all want our dollars Makes em all hypocrits. Attack our ideals and way of life, but gimme those dollars. Even Saddam when caught had several thousand in US dollars om him and countless millions in foreign banks.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by zorgon]

My “No” execution vote is not because Saddam is not guilty of wanton murder of helpless persons, nor that he did not invade another country unlawfully, causing many deaths, nor that he did not order the deaths of thousands without benefit of trial, nor that he did not subvert the state to his own personal uses, but it is because the state should serve as an example to all its citizens. The state should demonstrate that law and order can be established and implemented without the necessity of murdering yet another person.

In the special case of former leaders of a country, it may be that him remaining alive is itself a threat to the survival of the country. In such instances, which is the case here, the person should be held in strict incommunicado and his visits limited and monitored. You obviously don’t want him plotting to return to power. The sentence should include the denial of civil rights so that he cannot place himself or be placed on a ballot of any plebiscite.

As a former leader of a country, his place of confinement should be a two room suite without bars. Perhaps a small stand alone building inside a secure place, with high walls, and with tv cameras everywhere running 24/7. This is not because he deserves such deluxe confinement, but it is because the state needs to show itself and him that not only is it capable of humane treatment of the worst criminals but that it also respects him for the good things he did for his country.

In this way, the people of the country can take pride in the humane confinement of their former leader, showing him and the world they are better than the conduct he engaged in which got him to where he is. Closure is the by-word today. (Live with it was the advice in my time. )



[edit on 6/23/2006 by donwhite]

Crime and punishment...

Rather than have Saddam executed and made a martyr, or locked away in solitary like Hess, Make him sit at a desk on his own in the corridors of the UN council and not allowed to talk to anyone

Originally posted by zorgon

America think they own the world!

We are working on it.

.

Its funny how everyone hates us so much, yet all want our dollars

Makes em all hypocrits. Attack our ideals and way of life, but gimme those dollars. Even Saddam when caught had several thousand in US dollars om him and countless millions in foreign banks.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by zorgon]

The dollars Sadam had was probably given to him in exchange for oil that's why he had so much.

Originally posted by zorgon

America think they own the world!

We are working on it.

.

Its funny how everyone hates us so much, yet all want our dollars

Makes em all hypocrits. Attack our ideals and way of life, but gimme those dollars. Even Saddam when caught had several thousand in US dollars om him and countless millions in foreign banks.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by zorgon]

Actually, the Dollar isnt as covetted as it was at the moment. If certain countries have their way it will be the Euro that has the power.

Personally, I'm not too sure why people hate America(i'm British). I'd wager most of it is jealousy.

posted by JebusSaves

Actually, the dollar isn’t as coveted as it once was. If certain countries have their way it will be the Euro that has the power. Personally, I'm not too sure why people hate America (I’m British). I'd wager most of it is jealousy. [Edited by Don W]

Well, JS, I thank you for that insight. Jealousy, that is. I am personally disappointed in my country. There is so much that needs to be done here and so many opportunities to help overseas.

We bought into the Cold War, perhaps rightly so, and when it ended with a shudder and not a bang, I think many Americans were disappointed. Ronnie Reagan’s fans said it was he who did it; but “No” said Pope John Paul 2 fans, it was he who did it. Short memories? I thought the start of the Cold War was generally accepted to be marked by Sir Winston’s 1946 Iron Curtain speech at Westminister College in Fulton, MO.

From 1946 to 1989 is 43 years, two generations by some counts. What piques me is we learned after the fact that the USSR was the original paper tiger. That it’s capabilities had been ballooned all out of reality by our DoD and CIA. Hmm? Sort of a “make-work” project for them. Maybe it was Jebus after all who saved us from MAD - mutually assured destruction?

I’ve read there are 400 billion dollars of US currency in print. I’ve also read that 40% - maybe a bit more - is circulated outside the US as a world currency. Therefore, it follows that unless any would-be replacement currency can equal or exceed that quantity of trusted pieces of paper, say $175 billion worth, it won’t happen. This is why the Swiss franc or the Austrian shilling - both ok for collectors - will never work as a international currency.

Only a giant and strong economy can produce such (surplus) quantities of a reliable currency. It must be strong enough the excess currency (used outside the country) does not inflict a harmful inflationary impact on the supplying country. And so on. So, I say, no, JS, not until the Euro is a lot stronger and a lot more plentiful than it is today, will the Euro challenge the dollar. Or any other currency on the world stage. For better or worse. I’d guess the Yuan is way out of the question and the Yen is just not interested.



[edit on 6/23/2006 by donwhite]

My “No” execution vote is not because Saddam is not guilty

Kudos!! You get a vote for that one!

While I disagree about his fate, you have made the best argument against that I have ever heard. Very nicely stated Even I would accept that solution as an alternative!

In a word! Yes.

They rule the Country, so they are free to make what rules they like.

We call that dictatorship

If people don't like the rules they can go somewhere else.

Really? Tell that to the millions of Jews, gypsies and other "undesirables" during Hitlers regime. They wanted to get out, but where could they go? Russia wouldn't let them in, neither did the West. And dictators generally are not to keen letting people out. Look at the Berlin wall. You got shot or worse if you tried to leave.

America isn't the best example of being good to it's people is it? but do you see other Countrys trying to take them over,

Hmmm isn't that what 9/11 was all about?

You wouldn't be an Al Quaida operative would you? Living in a free democracy like the Uk while supporting dictators? Hmmmmmm

posted by zorgon

Kudos!! You get a vote for that one! While I disagree about his fate, you have made the best argument against that I have ever heard. I would accept that solution as an alternative!
[Edited by Don W]

I’ve never been a fan of the death penalty. I know most of the people who get it are “career” criminals. I don’t know what to do with them. My thinking is we have too many laws and too many of the wrong kind of laws. I’m not sure there is anything that can be done about that. I don’t like to be a pessimist; there is no future there. But I’m not Mr Pollyanna either.

I like to think of the 15% bracket on the Bell curve, where I’m thinking that number have not evolved enough to be in the tightly organized society we have today. 5,000 years ago, as hunter-gathers, they would have made it. Today, they cannot accommodate to our demands.

But thanks for the nice words.

The dollars Sadam had was probably given to him in exchange for oil that's why he had so much.

Most likely, but they were AMERICAN dollars, robbed from his own people... but I forgot you did say he could do whatever he wants... he owns... errrr runs the country... never mind the torture and starving civilians he is supposed to be in charge of.

As to oil I say its time we switched to hydrogen and ethonol and told them Arabs to stick their oil. Lets see how many weapons they can buy with sand!

I was looking through the posts and didn't catch any from Iraq so I guess it's a moot point for us "westerners" to be discussing his fate. My bet is that if you gave an Iraqi a .45 (especially a Curd) and said meed out what justice you think is fair, they would be mopping up Saddam's brains within 10 seconds. Right after they cut off his head and drug him through the streets, beating his lifeless body with their sandals. Just a thought.

Actually, the Dollar isnt as covetted as it was at the moment. If certain countries have their way it will be the Euro that has the power.

True for a while it did seem that the Euro would be good competition, but right now its gotten a little shaky again.

The Chineese have several hundred billion US dollars stashed away. Well one could say it could be used as a weapon... but when their president visited the US recently, his first stop was Bill Gates house for a big capitalist style business deal/party with all the trimmings and deal making that goes with that. THEN he went to see the President.

Personally, I'm not too sure why people hate America(i'm British). I'd wager most of it is jealousy.

You might just have hit in on the nose, mate People always covet what their meighbor has, and throw tantrums trying to destroy it if other they can't have it

Originally posted by donwhite
Only a giant and strong economy can produce such (surplus) quantities of a reliable currency. It mut be strong enough the excess currency (used outside the country) does not inflict an harmful inflationary impact on the supplying country. And so on. So, I say, no, JS, not until the Euro is a lot stronger and a lot more plentiful than it is today, will the Euro challenge the dollar. Or any other currency. For better or worse. I’d guess the Yuan is out of the question and the Yen is not interested.

Hmm, see its all to do with that lovely PetroDollar as I understand it.
The Iranians, along with other influential Oil Nations are using the threat of moving their business from the PD to the PetroEuro as its strengthening continuously.

I'll post a link or two that goes into better detail than I can on here.
If the PetroDollar does go into decline, then the Fragile Am Econ will take a beating that could cause a Depression that makes the 1930's look like a week without your allowance!!!

I realize that certain PTB's won't let this happen until it becomes their best interest, which will possibly be sometime in the next decade, which is totally dependant on that little nation known as China.

Link on PD vs ED
Another Link on the PD vs the ED

My bet is that if you gave an Iraqi a .45

Well he is being tried in an Iraqi court, by Iraqis. So while the "man on the street" in Iraq might take that 45, I do believe there are those in their court wanting to make the right desision for their people.

I just hope we DO let them decide, not stick our noses into that

posted by JebusSaves

posted by donwhite
“ . . no, JS, not until the Euro is stronger and more plentiful than it is today, will the Euro challenge the dollar . . I’d guess the Yuan is out and the Yen is not interested.
[Edited by Don W]

It’s all to do with the Petro Dollar as I understand it. The Iranians are using the threat of moving their business from the PD to the Petro Euro as its strengthening . . If the Petro Dollar does go into decline, then the Fragile Am Econ will take a beating that could cause a Depression . . “ [Edited by Don W]

JS, why do you say the US economy is “fragile?” Truth is, we are indeed convulsing, but our convulsions will be over before the rest of the world gets its dose of globalization. Even Exxon’s obscene profits pale when compared to the dollar volume (value) of the US petroleum and natural gas industries. I’m trying to show that our economy is broad based and doing remarkably well. For the top 20% of the population.

I’m an advocate for the bottom 80% of the population which is why I frequently bad-mouth the economy. Not for lack of strength, but for its lack of fair and equitable distribution. And the direction that it is taking us is wrong, IMO. The trip back will be hard on a lot of people, unnecessarily. Also, I have Green issues with the reigning powers.

I realize that PTB's won't let this happen until it becomes in their interest, which will possibly be sometime in the next decade, which is totally dependant on that little nation known as China. [Edited by Don W]

I’ve posted (from other sources) that China is in very bad financial condition today, June, 2006. You don’t have to wait till the next decade. Already, non-performing loans are equal to reserves. Problem is, with China, it is like the girl on a tiger.

“There was a young lady of Niger,
who smiled as she rode on a tiger,
they returned from the ride,
with the lady inside, and
the smile on the face of the tiger.”
Anon.

I think China will be preoccupied with its internal problems for the next decade. It may not succeed in handing it, ether. The 1 billion inland-ers are not happy over sacrificing to make life so good for the 300 million coastals. Which reminds me of RussianSoldier who said, “How would you like to see your country divided?” Can you see China divided into 20-30 states? Say Hello, Chiang Kai-Chek! Warlord of Warlords. Where are you when we need you? (Son-in-law of Dr. Sun Yat Sen.)


[edit on 6/23/2006 by donwhite]

If it were up to me, NO.

I don't know Saddam, I don't know any Iraqi citizens and I don't live in Iraq and never have. Having not learned firsthand what the Iraqi way of life is or experienced daily life in Iraq for myself, I do not think i'd be fit to impose judgement on any Iraqi person.

Nothing to do with me being 'as bad' as anyone. I wouldn't hesitate to order or even participate in the slaughter of anyone who would try to invade MY land (The U.S.A.).

However, let me say this (which might not ring with a lot of you)...

If I had the power, i'd send Saddam right back to where he came from and forget anything happened. The U.S. government had no business whatsoever invading Iraq and I have no beef with Saddam Hussein.

There are a lot of different points which bring me to this school of thought, but it all comes down to the fact that Saddam might be an asshole (and I don't know this, people just say he is), but it's not our business to take sides and try 'cleaning up' the rest of the world.

I see homeless people in the streets and subways, children in the ghetto selling crack and shooting at each other, people being incarcerated for a stinky plant only to be sodomized and/or murdered by their 'neighbors' in prison, police officers who once used NON-lethal means of dealing with a situation now resort to LESS-lethal shocks and the "tough s--t" attitude when a person is killed by one of the things.

They can't even take care of their own people properly and they expect me to support the invasion and destruction of a foreign country that i've never been to? Saddam should be free is my stance.

When I watched the smoke pouring from those towers on 9/11, from my own front yard, i had a sick feeling that i've never felt before. Little did I know that some of it would stick with me forever.

Saddam should be released and paid restitution. He has the balls to rule with an iron fist. Saddam rocks!

i think zorgon has had a near fatal dose of arrogance.your blind to a point where your nearly a capatalist slave. ive never spent a dollar in my life but why would i when the british pound is worth nearly double the dollars value. america acts like the only super power the world has ever seen. without britain there would be no war on terror because america needed someone else to sacrifice the lives of there brave youn men. both govenrments should be ashamed an you should see a bigger picture.